The BEST HVAC system for your home, hands down

[ultrarunner]

It's good to hear things improved...

It was marketed as a direct replacement for Carrier but not quite.

It was less expensive with a good warranty... so I signed off on it.

Most of what I deal with are gas packs and a few homes use them but mostly commercial and built up systems which I hope not to be around presenting the cost and lead time when the now 25 to 30 year old built ups expire.

Master lease is up in two years so the last thing anyone wants is 200k replacement with months left to go at that site... might go to rental A/C as this is my back up plan with ducting in place.

 

[Sigarms]

Most of what I deal with are gas packs and a few homes use them but mostly commercial and built up systems which I hope not to be around presenting the cost and lead time when the now 25 to 30 year old built ups expire.

That's what's interesting about HVAC.

Gas packs / Package heat pumps are pretty common in my neck of the woods for residential use. Duel fuel package units get sold, but only a small percentage.

Funny thing, they use to have a "oil pack" out there (think gas pack, but uses oil), it was really a hit or miss with those things (no longer made if that tells you anything).

 

[tractortroof]

I've found the X-13 works better with high static duct systems vs variable speed. What works best IMO? Good old cheap PSC motor LOL

Look at ICP ratings, you see you get higher efficiency with the X-13 motor vs the variable speed motor. Pretty much the case with all manufacturers.

Let you in on a secret, from my first picture, you should know what equipment I used

But honestly, that's due to some other things. I would not have been bothered if it were a couple of other brands.

I've had close to 30 years between two Lennox "off brand" systems, 2 defrost boards, one blower motor and two capacitors replaced in those 30 years of combined operation between the two, and that wasn't a bad run IMO. Because the outdoor TXV went on the one and since it was over 14 years old, decided it was time to replace it.

Are you an HVAC contractor, or are you speaking as a homeowner?

I did more Lennox repairs than that last week. Hyperbole of course, but they were the first ones to lose a class action lawsuit concerning their faulty coils. It’s about time these guys pay for making things so poorly.

 

[Sigarms]

Are you an HVAC contractor, or are you speaking as a homeowner?

I did more Lennox repairs than that last week. Hyperbole of course, but they were the first ones to lose a class action lawsuit concerning their faulty coils. It’s about time these guys pay for making things so poorly.

The X-13 vs Variable speed comment in a TSA position.

The 30 years "experience" between the two off Lennox brands as a homeowner that installed both systems in my own home. That's 30 years with a total of 6 issues (less the OD TXV which made me replace the system). Most expensive issue was the VS blower in the gas furnace in the attic. That motor was a pretty penny but that happened in like the 12th year LOL (system is still running fine, knock on wood, hope I don't jinks myself).

I've just been doing HVAC long enough to realize that there is no perfect system, and everyone hates some line (all of them if you know enough people) for some reason or another on the contracting side. I've also learned a long time ago that you never bad mouth a particular line because if you do this long enough, it may bite you in the butt.

Take your ICP your so fond of...

Which line do you install?

Airquest?
Arcoaire?
Comfortmaker?
Day and Night?
Maratherm?
Grandaire?
Heil?
Tempstar?
Keeprite?

Is one line better than the other? If you're charging X amount to replace a ICP unit, but another guy is less than your quote, does that mean his equipment is not as good or reliable using any ICP product?

Since your ICP OEM replacement compressors come from Carrier, and Carrier owns ICP, and interchanges what equipment is made under what roof, does that mean that Carrier is better than ICP? Is Carrier better than a Bryant or Payne unit? Is Bryant or Payne better than an ICP unit?

 

[tractortroof]

The X-13 vs Variable speed comment in a TSA position.

The 30 years "experience" between the two off Lennox brands as a homeowner that installed both systems in my own home. That's 30 years with a total of 6 issues (less the OD TXV which made me replace the system). Most expensive issue was the VS blower in the gas furnace in the attic. That motor was a pretty penny but that happened in like the 12th year LOL (system is still running fine, knock on wood, hope I don't jinks myself).

I've just been doing HVAC long enough to realize that there is no perfect system, and everyone hates some line (all of them if you know enough people) for some reason or another on the contracting side. I've also learned a long time ago that you never bad mouth a particular line because if you do this long enough, it may bite you in the butt.

Take your ICP your so fond of...

Which line do you install?

Airquest?
Arcoaire?
Comfortmaker?
Day and Night?
Maratherm?
Grandaire?
Heil?
Tempstar?
Keeprite?

Is one line better than the other? If you're charging X amount to replace a ICP unit, but another guy is less than your quote, does that mean his equipment is not as good or reliable using any ICP product?

Since your ICP OEM replacement compressors come from Carrier, and Carrier owns ICP, and interchanges what equipment is made under what roof, does that mean that Carrier is better than ICP? Is Carrier better than a Bryant or Payne unit? Is Bryant or Payne better than an ICP unit?

Great question, no, the type of sticker on the outside of an ICP system does not usually improve or degrade quality…

I was speaking from an experience of working in the field that exceeds 40,000 hours practice. I am interested to hear other opinions of people that had experience.

30 years of installing would be somewhat more meaningful than 30 years owning.

There are definite differences in manufacturing quality, which vary by year, model and manufacturer. “All brands are the same” is an uninformed opinion.

 

[DKCDKC]

I am no HVAC expert, never have been. But when I needed HVAC for my new house, I went to my local utility energy conservation experts, the experts at the local electric cooperative, and some folks with HVAC maintenance experience. I talked to different dealers and researched the heck out of the subject. Ultimately I went with a WaterFurnace geothermal unit for my 3000 sq ft ranch with lots of windows. That was 22 years ago - and I have never been sorry. You get a few maintenance adjustments the first year or so - under warranty - then smooth performance for years to come. I did have to replace a few parts last year - it was 20 years old - but it hums like a top. And my electric bill is substantially lower than any of my friends - with smaller houses. I figure the unit paid for its higher cost in about 5 or 6 years. But it also has other benefits. I love sitting on my deck in the summer without listening to some outside unit whirring away. The thing is so quiet that I have to hold a hand over vent to even know if it's running. Yet the house stays cozy all winter and cool all summer.

 

[WM75Guy]

I have a couple of questions about AC in our new house build.

One builder insisted that they only install brand C. I have had very good luck with Brand A, and I tend to be very loyal if I find something that works well. You have seen the high end unit we currently have in another thread. Is it reasonable to insist on what we want or just roll with it?

Next question... We designed our new house with a first floor mechanical room to house all other the things typically pit in an attic. The room will be accessible from the outside, so maintenance people don't need to worry about the rest of the house as much. We can also then change filters and such without climbing as we are getting older and kids are gone. The same builder was insisting they still put the equipment in the attic. Help me understand if this makes sense.

Get what you want. It is your house, your money, and your headache after the contractors all run off to the bank to cash your checks. It took me 3 months working with a designer to get our house plans the way we wanted them. Then I took them to the contractor and said build this for me. If he had said no, I would have gone looking for another contractor. Our contract was cost plus 12% to the contractor. I worked with every sub-contractor to get exactly what I wanted for a finished product.

 

[Sigarms]

There are definite differences in manufacturing quality, which vary by year, model and manufacturer. “All brands are the same” is an uninformed opinion.

Please note, I stated "pretty much all the same crap"

I started in HVAC in 1993, and I will wholeheartedly agree with you in that quality can vary year by year, model and manufacturer.

I mentioned my own home because I didn't own my first home (so far, one and only) until about age 41 after I moved to NC. Generally the best kind of recommendation a person can give is what they put in their own home.

Again, from time to time, people come here and always ask "what line should I buy for my own home" looking for advice. My whole point for starting this thread is what is more important than the badge on the equipment is the person / company installing it.

Let's just say I have some not so favorite lines and we would probably agree more than disagree, I just try to stay away from being negative because I've also found that not only can quality year by year, by model and manufacturer, but what's interesting is the different kinds of support you get in various states on the various lines.

When I first moved to NC, I was blown away how big Trane was down here (I've had people tell me that NC is one of Tranes largest markets and I believe it, because nothing runs like a Trane). In Western Pennsylvania where I had moved down from, American Standard was actually bigger per my "perceived market share".

 

[Sigarms]

I am no HVAC expert, never have been.

Neither am I.

I learned a long time ago that when it comes to conditioning the air, at best, you know more about one area than another.

8 years in, I never knew what a swamp cooler was.

Down south, the few guys who do oil will only touch a Beckett burner, and have no idea what a Riello burner is and don't want to touch one.

I didn't realize how stupid I was until I worked with a licensed engineer on the commercial side.

Month or so ago I had to get my boss down to look at a very large commercial refrigeration system because I had very little clue on what I was doing.

Guys in NC will still go off the rating plate for a boiler replacement instead of going off the amount of radiation in place.

Chillers are another story, at least for me.

The list is endless when it comes to HVAC and being an "expert". I've just found it easier to admit I'm an idiot, but add that I learn and use common sense, and found it's easier to pass expectations that way

It's the guys who are experts in "HVAC" that scare me. Either they're BSing or some of the worlds smartest people.

 

[tractortroof]

Your experience with a certain brand will vary also by your climate. I’ve talked to many many people who have completely different experiences with equipment that I would never endorse.

I see many people say good things about water furnace, we installed them in 2008 and they were a disaster, again the evaporator coils. The local guy who installed the loops and distributed the equipment said they had 90% failure within 2 years. This is what we experienced, just changed out my last one for a Climatemaster, which only performed moderately better. I can only attribute it to our climate exposing their weakness….10 months out of the year those coils stay wet.

To put it in perspective, in the month of February we almost always get “no cool” calls.

This perspective gives us an informed opinion on manufacturer quality.