The Adapter Saga Continues

Mark_in_NH · May 2, 2002

Well !!! The mystery of my stuck PTO adapter has been solved. PARTIALLY !!
I was able to remove the pin and the spring and found that it had nothing to do with the adapter being stuck on the PTO shaft. The reason I know this is because the adapter is still stuck.
It is loose, it wiggles, it just won't slide off. I have even put a 3' wrecking bar on it to try and pry / force it off. I can apply enough strength to flex the wrecking bar, but the adapter stays put. The only thing that I can think of now, is that (as someone mentioned) there is a burr or some obstruction that I can't see causing the problem.
BOY, it must be one heck of a burr !!

EdKing · May 2, 2002

You might want to try a gear puller. You can get the screw type, or the slide hammer type. With a puller you will be much less likely to damage anything.

Soundguy · May 2, 2002

I know you may have already checked for this, but is there a set screw anywhere? possibly recessed?

Soundguy

Old_Wanker · May 2, 2002

You say its loose - in what direction though? Is it sliding a little along the splines (in and out)? Is it rotating a little? How much play are we talking about - is it 1/8 inch or just detectable?

I have to admit that it sounds to me that if there is a good amount of play but it still wont come off then there may be some debris in there and not just a burr.

Mark_in_NH · May 2, 2002

but is there a set screw anywhere?
Not that I can see anywhere !

You say its loose
As in loose I mean. It will wiggle around, so I know it is not siezed onto the PTO shaft. It will slide back n forth along the PTO splines, ?maybe? a 1/8 inch.
I can look into the hole that the pin came out of and see movement, I don't see anything clearly evident in the way of a burr, obstruction or debris. I can look into the end of the adapter and see the end of the PTO shaft and again, I see no clear cause.
I think a gear puller may well be my next best tool to attempt removal. I also think that before I try that, I will buy a can of carburator cleaner and just spray clean the works just to make sure there isn't a little grease or something hiding the cause or culprit.

DougL · May 2, 2002

Maybe the problem is not the PTO/shaft spline connection but the slip joint in the shaft itself?? A bent shaft would cause that joint not to move. Is the implement still attached to the tractor? If yes, detach it and slide it back one joint or the other should move.

Soundguy · May 2, 2002

I've also seen over running clutches with a captive ball and spring style detent, that is not evident from the outside of the housing ( was internally milled and mounted.
The ball may have become rusted in place, or deformed, etc.

Is there a slip collar with this unit ( quik connect? )

Soundguy

Mark_in_NH · May 2, 2002

Here is the same picture of the adapter that I posted in my earlier thread on this subject.
The only differance is that, Now there is no pin in place, ie. the round ended push button prtruding to the left of the adapter.

mikim · May 2, 2002

Even typing this it sounds silly - but have you tried running the pto with it as it is now to see if something will shake loose? If it's loose enough to rattle - maybe running it at 540 rpm will sling something and let it come off ---- I wouldn't advise anything or anybody be behind you at the time.
mike

Anonymous Poster · May 2, 2002

Mark,

You did remove one of those "retaining bolts" didn't you...?/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif(one towards the tractor-through the PTO spline)

You may also check for a "hidden compressed lock pin" through your adaptor and tractors output PTO shaft/spline...

There is basically nothing left... /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

CSAW · May 2, 2002

Mark

Weld a large logging chain to the adapter. Attach the other end to the front bumper of your car. Make sure you have plenty of slack, put tractor in high gear at wide open throttle. Take off as fast as you can. Something will come loose. I promise. /w3tcompact/icons/grin.gif

Just kidding/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Seriously though. It sounds like something is in the locking groove on the shaft. Have you tried turning the locking hole in the adaptor to the bottom and tapping with a hammer to see if anything comes out? If there is, your idea of carb cleaner might free it up. I like brake cleaner better because it evaporates completely in a short time. Can you see through the hole?

I wish I had a better idea. Good Luck

Mark_in_NH · May 2, 2002

John,
The 2 bolts that you see are merely big set screws (allen screw w/ a nut for locking ) All they do is tighten down on the pump shaft once, it is inserted into the adapter. There are no bolts through the PTO shaft. I wish there were. I would feel Really Stupid, but my problem would be solved.

Mark_in_NH · May 2, 2002

CSAW,
Can you see through the hole?

Yes, I can now look through the hole the pin was in.
I don't see anything in there that would be causing the problem, but there is definately something that is preventing the adapter from sliding off.

Soundguy · May 2, 2002

Here is a way out idea, but as it looks like you have tried nearly everything else, might as well think about it.

I had a compact tractor, that had a hole drilled all te way through the pto shaft ( off axis, not down the center of the shaft into the tractor ).
In that hole, someone had put a roll pin. ( We call them roll pins.. but it is basically a thin peice of metal rolled up on itself, slightly larger diameter than the hole. It will compress ( roll up on itself further ) slightly to allow it to be driven in.

Mine had one in it from a previous owner, and once worked free a bit so that .25" was up... I had a devil of a time getting a splined adapter off of that pto shaft.
just an idea of a cause.

Keep us informed.

Soundguy

Mark_in_NH · May 2, 2002

Soundguy,
That could be a very distinct possibility. How did you finally wind up getting yours off ?

Anonymous Poster · May 2, 2002

…a roll pin…You may also check for a "hidden compressed lock pin" through your adaptor…

I think we’re on a roll here… /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif/w3tcompact/icons/blush.gif
(use a thin punch...)

beenthere · May 2, 2002

I was just reading these threads and wondering if there may be a hidden roll pin driven in, and flush with the surface of the adapter. Soundguy beat me to it, but may be onto something.
This pin, if there, needs to be driven back out with a punch that just fits the hole. A make-shift punch from a drill bit the right size and ground flat on one end would also work. Wear some eye protection when doing this.

That seems to be the only thing that explains the movement you are experiencing, but not being able to slide it off with the big wrecking bar.

Hopefully this Saga doesn't continue, without a solution.

kevincook · May 2, 2002

I had an over-running clutch adaptor that had a roll pin through the PTO shaft under the "set screws".

The set screws didn't actually do anything than keep the roll pin in place.

Have you considered a sawzall /w3tcompact/icons/grin.gif.

If you can move the shaft an 1/8 of an inch I would suspect something caught in the retaining groove of the PTO shaft. Have you tried rotating the shaft with your hand while pushing the adaptor back and forth? I assume you have. Good Luck.

Anonymous Poster · May 2, 2002

I don't understand what all the fuss is about... /w3tcompact/icons/tongue.gif

Why do you need the PTO anyways...? /w3tcompact/icons/blush.gif

Really... just give us 100 good reasons to have it... /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

glennmac · May 2, 2002

While we are awaiting the solution to the mystery, anyone want to reargue the issue of whether it is better for a backhoe to have a pto pump or be plumbed into the tractor hydraulics?