TC33DA leaking hydraulic oil

[MikePA]

I do the routine maintenance, so no need to transport it when it's running fine.

I don't mean this to sound harsh, but everything the dealer did I consider 'routine maintenance'. I put this in quotes because of the oil cooler and the 90 degree elbow elimination kit, while not routine, are not hard to do.

 

[tom_k]

I don't mean this to sound harsh, but everything the dealer did I consider 'routine maintenance'. I put this in quotes because of the oil cooler and the 90 degree elbow elimination kit, while not routine, are not hard to do.

That's right. As it turns out, none of the work was beyond my ability. If I had taken the time to do it myself I'd have saved more than half the cost and would not be having this conversation.

Still, I want to know I've been charged fairly before I make the decicison to use this dealer again.

 

[jinman]

I don't remember what I paid last time for a tow truck to move a car across town. I'm sure it was a lot less than $350 though.

Tom, last week I had my car just stop on me in afternoon rush hour traffic. I managed to coast it into a median turn lane out of traffic. It was obvious it was fuel starved and there was plenty of fuel in the car. A police officer was nice enough to call another patrolman and have him block traffic while he pushed me into a nearby parking lot out of traffic. Since I live 70 miles away, there was nothing I could do but call my wife to come get me and leave the car until the next day.

Overnight, I arranged for a rental car at noon the next day. When I called the auto shop, he told me to use his discount code and I would get that Chevy Impala for $30 per day. My wife came back to town the next day because she had some shopping to do and provided me with transportation to get the rental car and such.

The auto shop arranged for the tow of my vehicle across town to their shop. When they got caught up, they found my fuel pump inside the gas tank under the trunk was shot. I had them also install a new fuel filter. The fuel filter on this Honda Accord is on the firewall below a bunch of other "junk" and hard to replace. They also replaced the plugs because they were eroded away too.

When I went to pick up the car, I was two hours over on the rental and the shop owner just marked my paperwork as returned on time. He has a deal with Budget rental and they pick the rental cars up at his shop for no extra charge.

The cost of the repair and tow came to a little over $700. Thats for the diagnostics, fuel pump, fuel filter, spark plugs, labor, and the tow. The rental car was $114 for 3-1/2 days.

I feel like the difference between my case and yours is that my auto shop looked for every way to save me money while making it convenient on me. It seems to me your tractor dealer looked for every reason he could find to charge you full price. I'd be really suspicious of that 17 gallon hydraulic oil charge. Even with the front differential and wheel drop boxes, I don't know how they could use that much oil. I'm not buying the "flush out" story. Why would they need to do that? It's not called for in the Repair Manual. That's why you have lots of hydraulic filters.

I would not challenge the dealer, but I would sure ask him to explain some of the charges. Whatever his explanation, I'd quote him in my letter to New Holland and let him know that his reasoning was going to be seen by the folks at New Holland. There is no way this failure of the oil cooler should have happened to you at 149 hours. I would try to get the old cooler and take pictures. I'd also gently let NH know that their response to this horrible case of equipment reliability is being closely watched by the people on this forum. They could come out looking good by covering some of the cost, or they can look really bad by ignoring you. I hope they help; you deserve it.

 

[AlanB]

I personally would have a hard time being calm, as I think you got ripped, but I would try my best to do what Jinman stated.

If it was me, I would bring my wife with me when I spoke with the manager so she could deflect me before I jumped over his desk

 

[jinman]

I personally would have a hard time being calm, as I think you got ripped, but I would try my best to do what Jinman stated.

If it was me, I would bring my wife with me when I spoke with the manager so she could deflect me before I jumped over his desk

I didn't say I wouldn't scream... I just wouldn't do it at the dealership. If you become belligerent at the dealer, then your attitude will become the issue and you'll get nothing. It's better to swallow your anger and pride and come out with something than to yell and scream and get nothing. However, I would want to yell and scream too.

Another issue is involved here. I don't know what Tom's directions were to his dealer, but the hydraulic oil and filter and the front differential oil are not supposed to be changed until 300 hours. The SuperSteer clutchs get the oil changed at 600 hours. Why was the oil changed at all? This tractor only had 149 hours on it. There is no reason to be changing the oil unless there is some obvious contamination. Even if Tom asked the dealer to change the oil, the dealer should have advised him that this is not normally done at such low hours. It's the dealer's job to be the expert and give his customers good advice rather than just do something that isn't really needed.

Again, I don't know what Tom asked for, but it appears that his dealer ( or rather the service manager) didn't take the time to advise Tom of the expected cost or normal service items. That's disappointing.

 

[tom_k]

Another issue is involved here. I don't know what Tom's directions were to his dealer, but the hydraulic oil and filter and the front differential oil are not supposed to be changed until 300 hours. The SuperSteer clutchs get the oil changed at 600 hours. Why was the oil changed at all? This tractor only had 149 hours on it. There is no reason to be changing the oil unless there is some obvious contamination. Even if Tom asked the dealer to change the oil, the dealer should have advised him that this is not normally done at such low hours. It's the dealer's job to be the expert and give his customers good advice rather than just do something that isn't really needed.

Again, I don't know what Tom asked for, but it appears that his dealer ( or rather the service manager) didn't take the time to advise Tom of the expected cost or normal service items. That's disappointing.

It was the dealer who suggested the extra fluid changes (beyond replacing the hydraulic oil after the oil cooler blew). He said the front axle should be done every year.

I like Jinman's advice. I don't expect something for nothing, but a good dealer should be thinking of ways to control costs, not thinking of ways to charge for unnecessary work.

Now, I did look into towing costs in my area. Called two companies. Their rates are $65 per hook-up, plus $3 or $4 per mile. So my dealer's hauling charges may not be wildly out of line for this area.

 

[IH3444]

AMSOIL - Synthetic Tractor Hydraulic/Transmission Oil, SAE 5W-30

 

[tom_k]

I looked into the Amsoil product.
Contacted a local dealer about how to buy it locally, but never saw a response. I would not want to have 8 or 9 gallons shipped.

I told my dealer I wanted to use the NH "200" product for cold weather. He said they did not stock it, nobody else ever requested it, so they would have to order it and charge me for a 50 gallon drum.

We usually get temperatures below 10 degrees here a couple days each year.
Some winters, never. Once, about 15 years ago, it went to 15 below. But more typical winter days here are in the 20s and 30s. I'd have paid a little more for cold weather components in case one of us ever tries to run the machine on a very cold day without warming it up first.

 

[Soundguy]

FWIW, My dealer charges $150 to pick-up & return for service work. $150+$75 per hour seems high to me. Greg

My local dealer only charged me 100$ to drive 40m round trip to haul my largish Nh 7610s tractor... IE.. pretty much 'cost' by the time you figure fuel, and the man behind the wheel.

Soundguy

 

[IH3444]

Tom, you're not trying hard enough.... The problems you are experiencing with a hydrostatic tractor is one, of many reasons I bought a gear tractor. What are you going to do next time something blows in the cold weather?

AMSOIL - Synthetic Tractor Hydraulic/Transmission Oil, SAE 5W-30

 

[MikePA]

Contacted a local dealer about how to buy it locally, but never saw a response. I would not want to have 8 or 9 gallons shipped.

Years ago, before they had the multi viscosity hyd oil, I ordered it from the AMSOIL web site and had it shipped. I heard the same story from my local NH dealer (they didn't stock it) instead they sold the Kubota synthetic hyd oil for use in Kubota and NH tractors. Since you just paid for 17 gallons of the stuff, I would not change it out for a while.

To reiterate, I would document, in writing, what your complaints are to the owner of the NH dealer and give him a chance to make things right. In the letter , specifically state what you're looking for, e.g., a refund of X dollars, don't just complain. Based on what you've indicated, the issues are;

DEALER RELATED ISSUES
Pickup and delivery charges.
17 gallons of hyd oil in a tractor that takes about 9 gallons.
Changing the front axle fluids.

NH RELATED ISSUES
The defective oil cooler
The defective 90 degree hoses

If nothing happens, send a letter to NH HQ and cc the dealer and your local BBB.

 

[tom_k]

Tom, you're not trying hard enough.... The problems you are experiencing with a hydrostatic tractor is one, of many reasons I bought a gear tractor. What are you going to do next time something blows in the cold weather?

Usually I'm not a Bells-and-Whistles kinda guy. For years, we bought only manual transmission cars. Pickup trucks with crank-up windows, etc.
So I don't know what I'd been drinking on the day I bought this tractor.

 

[IH3444]

You've got a great sense of humor Tom. Sorry for the harshness. It surprizes me that NH hasn't isued a blanket recall on this problem with the hydros, although I could be behind the times with that statement. NH should have known that people will want to use their tractors in below zero tempertures. It leaves me to believe that they didn't do their low temperture technical evalation correctly. These machines should be good to -20, and really to -35 degree temps. If it took installing the higher quality synthetic lube at the factory, then they should have done it. Leaving the customer hanging out in the cold with such a problem is almost criminal. You buy a brand new tractor from New Holland to perform such tasks as plowing, in the winter, and then at tempertures only as low as 30 degrees F, bam.....the hydrostatic filter blows a seal, or the hydro cooler ruptures a line. Hardly acceptable. I started out my search for a new tractor wanting a big hydrostatic tractor, and after reading many post about hydro issues, went with a New Holland TC48 gear drive. Your dealer should stand behind you 100% with this, and if not, take the good advice already given about contacting the NH factory rep.

 

[MikePA]

The only issues related to the cold temps are the filter and the noise. They issued a redesigned filter in response. I don't think anyone has said the noise is harmful.

 

[jinmajm284]

Just something to read and think about:

By using high viscosity oil in a cold environment, you would experience a high resistance to flow, an increase in power consumption due to friction, sluggish or slow operation of actuators, and possible aeration of the oil. When the fluid is too thick, there can be cavitation at the inlet port, resulting in high pump wear and sluggish system response. This was told to me many years ago but still works today. Viscosity is like the#15-30 in Amsoil. Where I live we use stright a grade #22 for winter #32 or #46 in summer. Hydraulic oil is changed 2 times every year to keep moisture out (which is why we change 2 times a year). Multi-grade is the best but you pay for it and it still should be changed every year. If a hydraulic unit has water in you should change it at least 2 times. The first time to get water out of tank but the cyls. still have to be cycled to put clean oil in them, so 2 times is min.
PJ

 

[jinmajm284]

Some more good reading on a cold day:

I found a site with some good info. and easy to understand, about hydraulics and yes I know it's about Eaton produces but most of it goes with all hydraulic systems. http://hydraulics.eaton.com/help_faqs/03-401.pdf

PJ

 

[IH3444]

I'm a bit disappointed about my NH tractor not having a threaded boss, where a plug could be removed, and an accessary heating element could be installed. I'm still a bit amazed about the NH's compacts not being more cold weather oriented. Seems to me plowing snow is one thing most buy their tractor for, with 4WD. Winter snow plowing......

 

[direwolf]

I have a 2000 model TC33D with busted HST elbows. When the factory rubber hose elbows burst 15 years ago, I knew nothing about NH's fix, so I bought two brass 1/2" elbow fittings and used reinforced fuel line. That repair has lasted 15 years. I live in Texas and don't really use the tractor in the winter.

Recently, one of the hoses burst, and I repeated the repair. After 2 hours it burst again, this time obviously from high pressure. I think I should also replace the HST filter inside the R rear wheel with the improved one you mentioned. Does anyone know the part number?

Thx.

 

[dieselscout80]

For the TC 35, 40 & 45 the hydrostatic filter is on the left side kinda by the starter. This is a higher pressure filter so don’t just by an oil filter.

The hydraulic filter is bigger and by the right rear tire.

 

[direwolf]

Thank you, Dieselscout80! After reading several posts, I see I am thinking of the wrong filter.