TC33D wont start

[ch1ch2]

I have a TC33D that had the same problem.
Turned out to be the ground cable to the battery was corroded inside of the insulation.
It did not show up with my meter at first, later it did. Go figure.

 

[Ken789]

Wow! This story is remarkable! I'm reading this thread because this morning my tc 35 developed the EXACT SAME symptoms!!! Came to my TC buddies for advice. Was working fine drag harrowing a field, then shut it off to get out of the field gate. Tried to start it and it acted EXACTLY the same way yours did Sherpa! Same symptoms, same buzzing, same voltage drop.....hmmmm. I am going to investigate both of my cables tomorrow first thing and see what happens. Curiously my 35 is also 4 years old, but with 1300 hours on it. I'll be back to post the results and if no luck, seek the advise of those of you here wiser and more experienced than me. Sherpa, thanks for the post, and thanks to everyone who replied. This is consistently the best place to get reliable, level headed counsel.

This is great - Just as Jedjoe has said - this just happened to me. I replaced the battery with a new one - still had issues. Came here read this thread, cut the terminal end off the Factory Positive battery terminal, held the raw wire to the battery terminal and presto - starts like a dream. Repeated this test 3 times no issues, tomorrow I have to replace the "Cable terminal head" and the rubber grommet at the radiator wall.

But thank you all for sharing - saved me from taking my tractor in for service ! Thank you ! Thank you !
KJKoch

 

[Bobby22]

Had my starter rebuilt for $125 from a friend. but he said it would usually cost $165. That is here in Florida.

 

[Bobby22]

I went to NAPA and purchased the relay and the connector as mentioned in the diagram. I have a question though, There is a 87a pin in the middle of this relay. What do you do with that pin/wire. Do I just cap it off???? I could use some help.

 

[Bobby22]

Still having issues with the tractor starting. Did the relay install, rebuilt starter, battery checked, new battery lugs installed. I hear the fuel shutoff solenoid click (sometimes) and usually only starts if I shoot ether down the intake and will remain running for the rest of the day. Fuel filter 1 month old. Service manual does not mention much else. Air filter new (both of them) so it is not clogged or obstructed. Getting 9vdc at fuel solenoid when key is turned on. Any other suggestions?

 

[Ohio Paul]

I have also been having the starting problems on my TC29DA. In fact, I just got back from NAPA with the relay and base. Bobby 22 has hit on my question exactly. What do you do with the 87 and 87a terminals on the relay base? I see no one has answered since 8/25/16.
Bobby, did you figure out what to do? Please let me know, as I am getting ready to do the mod.
Thanks for any help I can get.

 

[Ford850]

Post #51 in this thread has a 3 page PDF that shows all connections with notes. Others have said they leave 87a blank.

 

[Ohio Paul]

Ford 850, Thank you for the quick reply. Actually, I printed out the 3 page PDF but never saw where it advised what to do with the 87a terminal.
I will leave it blank and hopefully this problem will go away.
I love this web site, great people and great information!
Thanks again

 

[Bobby22]

Sorry about the late post Paul, I work midnights and with the hurricane coming to Florida my days were spent prepping. And yes 87A is useless for this application. It did not fix my problem at all. I had to put a jumper in one of my relays. I bought two new relays and it still does not start the tractor. So I bypassed that relay with a 3 inch jumper. I am thinking something that is hooked to my relay has gone bad (one of the interlocks). The repair manual does not even show two of the relays that are on this tractor so I am not sure where to start from here. the jumper is working for now so until I get better at understanding the wiring I will just use the jumper.

 

[Ohio Paul]

Bobby, thanks for the reply. I have found that the electrical system on this model of tractor is very poorly designed. I have had trouble for years with intermittent starting problems. I did replace the 10 amp fuse with a resettable one that helped. At least you can continue to try to start it with out changing the fuse all the time. The dealer always says it is one of the safety switches and wants to move on. As far as I know, I have never had a problem with a safety switch it's self. After several hours of looking I found an electrical connector on the neutral safety switch that was loose and just fell apart when I touched it. I put it back together and was good to go for several years. I am now having the same problem again. I got under the tractor and checked the connector and it was ok but of very poor quality. I wanted to replace it but it is very hard to get to. I have to remove the linkage for the range selector to even get my hand in there. To replace it correctly I would have to take the wheel off which I don't want to do for obvious reasons. You might look there for your problem as well as cleaning the ground connection on the frame. Mine was corroded.
I have high hopes that this mod will finally fix my issues but now I have my doubts after your experience. Which relays do you jump?
As an aside, we winter in Ruskin so we are neighbors for 3 months. How did you make out with the storm?

 

[Bobby22]

Hey Paul
I tried to attach the picture of my relays, but it is not coming up. . OK it is going to come up.
I removed the first relay and made a small blue jumper with spade ends. Everything seems to be working fine now, but it is not the way I like to fix things. Since my manual does not have my particular wiring harness I do not know where all the of wires go to. I will mess with it as the weather gets better, but I get more confused and angry trying to figure things out without the wiring diagram. Palmetto fared well with that storm not even the first palm fron fell out of a tree. I bought this tractor from a guy in Ruskin. Got a great deal and this is really a great tractor.

 

[Ohio Paul]

I just copied the photo, thank you. I can't tell where the other end of the jumper goes from the picture. Can you advise?
I was on the tractor most of yesterday and it started every time no problem. This is the kind of thing that drives me nuts. I haven't had time to get into this repair yet, it is getting cold here, 32 yesterday morning, and we are trying to get ready for winter. That 5 foot roto-tiller really does the job!
I love this tractor, it is a real work horse for sure. The only draw back seems to be the electrical system. I had to replace the glow plug timer relay several years ago and as I said before, the connectors are very poorly designed.

You have been very patient with my requests and it is greatly appreciated. If we cross paths in Ruskin I will be more than happy to buy you a beer.

 

[Bobby22]

I just copied the photo, thank you. I can't tell where the other end of the jumper goes from the picture. Can you advise?
I was on the tractor most of yesterday and it started every time no problem. This is the kind of thing that drives me nuts. I haven't had time to get into this repair yet, it is getting cold here, 32 yesterday morning, and we are trying to get ready for winter. That 5 foot roto-tiller really does the job!
I love this tractor, it is a real work horse for sure. The only draw back seems to be the electrical system. I had to replace the glow plug timer relay several years ago and as I said before, the connectors are very poorly designed.

You have been very patient with my requests and it is greatly appreciated. If we cross paths in Ruskin I will be more than happy to buy you a beer.

Hey Paul
The blue wire goes where I drew blue line, I am pretty sure it is in the first slot closest to you on the relay. I will take a picture of the jumper installed and send it to you when I get home later.

 

[jcoop1]

Well my first post and it's a happy ending.

New to me 2006 TC33D that was sold with a "bad starter solenoid", new one came with it so I took the plunge. Brought it home and replace the solenoid. Not fixed, solenoid clicked but no start. After joining and reading this thread, I gathered up a solenoid, some wires and some connectors and went to work. 12.37v at battery, 10.01 at purple wire on starter solenoid. Would start 1 out of 25 times. Now with relay it starts every time. Found out the firewall is NOT GROUNDED, how crazy is that. Next step is the Hydraulics seem a little week. And need to add some lighting to the front and back. Steering column flops around as well, think I will just make a bracket for that, don't need the adjustable column.




Thanks for the great information

John

 

[motownbrowne]

Welcome aboard. I'm sending you a PM about a service manual.

 

[buckthorn]

My T33D is back in the shop again to hopefully resolve my starting issue -- which has been going on for roughly 5 years(!). I think I've described it here or on some other thread -- I can't remember any more. The trigger this time was that I got the "click" and no cranking from the starter. I did my usual rain dance, banging the hood, moving the range shifter, etc. Usually it fires up after four or five retries. This time, I turned the key, and everything went completely dead. I wanted to check the fuse, but couldn't for the life of me pry that thing apart. It went to the shop. They called yesterday to say they had they found the problem: a blown fuse. And they wanted to give it back to me. I said no, there's something deeper going on here. I think the blown fuse is either a side-issue or a symptom of the real issue. They can never reproduce the failure to start, so I sent them a video I did with my phone. And I pointed them to this thread. They've promised to look into it further.... knock on wood that they put the necessary effort into this and figure it out.

 

[Florida_Farmer]

Well, I'm sorry to have to join this thread.... it means my TC33D is also not starting. I have power, 12.85 volts at the recently replaced battery and similar voltage at the starter positive cable. Voltage drops a tad to 12.5 when the key is turned and all I can hear is a click from the area where the 3 bosch grey relays (Image attached) Lights dim only very slightly when trying to start.

Also the plug to the right of the bank of 3 - not sure if this is some type of regulator? Does it have anything to do with the starting or glow plug circuits?

There is also one more bosch relay about 10" below the main electrical group. (Image attached) also - what is the right way to remove these without damage? - Do you just pull them straight up or is there some type of release.?

All the fuses in the fuse block look OK. There is one inline fuse that is OK by the starter but I think there may be another one behind/below the alternator that I have not gotten to yet. I ran this tractor with no problems this morning and have never had an issue aside from a couple of occasions where I have had to jiggle/re- tighten the key switch. The only issue with starting I've ever had is the starter "likes" the neutral position between 1st and 2nd range but not so much the neutral between 1st and 3rd. When I look at this switch under the fender, it has a little white wheel on a spring that rides like a lobe on the shifter linkage - maybe the plastic wheel has worn and not depressing enough? I tried to push it down manually while my wife tried the key but nothing happened - can it be bypassed to test if the switch is working?

I'm hoping someone can confirm what lights normally come on the dashboard - I drive this tractor alot but don't remember seeing the yellow glow plug light when I was starting - When I turn the key on - The red battery and engine oil light is on as well as the 540 and 600 PTO speed lights. After 3-4 seconds, the 540 and 600 lights go off.
When I depress and turn the key - the yellow glow plug light comes on and stays on for about 5 seconds then turns off. As I said, I don't recall that light so much.. I wish I had taken a video of a "normal starting sequence" that I could refer to now to confirm things.

Anyway, I'm going to clean up the connectors and wiggle a bit to try and find something.. I'm looking forward to you comments and guidance but think maybe I'll start with the key switch since it's easy and accessible and also maybe replace perhaps relays.. There was lots of discussion about the glow plug relay - which one(s) are those of the

Thanks in advance for any help - I'm pretty handy but electrical gremlins are my blind spot for sure....

 

[Florida_Farmer]

I disconnected the neutral switch and put a jumper wire in - started right up.... I guess the switch is bad/worn.. Now the question is do I replace the $120 dollar switch or just tape the jumper wire up and roll on.....

 

[thisdj1]

I hate to bring up a sticky thread that has been idle for almost a year, but I too am looking for a little help. I've read through all 118 posts and have a pretty good idea of what I need to do, and also have the parts on hand. My application will actually be on a 2006 Case DX45, which obviously is identical to the TC45 DA. I am planning on wiring in the extra relay as I just finished wiring in a new ignition switch. I think that since I have a factory cabbed tractor that some of the instructions may be different than what they were for the open TC33 DA. I removed my dash and found the 3 relays that I believe are mentioned in prior posts. I am having problems locating the purple or tan wire inside the cab anywhere however. I also haven't figured out how to remove the starter in order to get to the solenoid. I did remove my loader and that has opened up a little more room in there. I guess I am looking for a little help in removing the starter and also locating the tan/purple wire and if there is a particular place that is best to cut in to it on the cabbed tractor. It would be nice to keep all of my cuts inside the cab if possible. But I will be using heat shrink solder butt connectors and heat shrink terminal connectors for added protection. I appreciate all of your help!

 

[thisdj1]

Well I just wanted to follow up on this for anyone that may do this fix on a cabbed tractor. This is the route I ended up taking. I used the schematic and located the wire number for the tan wire that goes to the solenoid. It was labelled as T17 on my tractor. I traced it back to the cab and located it in the harness that is under the dash. On the passenger side of the dash I removed a couple of zip ties and was able to isolate the wire I needed and made my splice there. I used a relay that I purchase off of Amazon that came in a pack of 2 for under $10 and also include the relay base and pig tail wires for it. These relay also have a built in ATC fuse holder that fuses the 30 pin and eliminated the need to add an additional in line fuse.

Since I was already replacing the ignition switch to an aftermarket switch I went ahead and got my 12v supply from the Batt post on the switch. According to the schematic, the wires that go to the 12v on the solenoid go right to the back of that switch so I utilized it instead of the solenoid. For my ground I ran a wired down through the opening where the brake pedal rods go through the floor. I was a little hesitant to do this at first but there is plenty of room there and I also added a piece of loom on the wire where it went through the floor for a little added protection. I used the ground that is just behind the starter so I wouldn't have to worry about making sure the ground I was using was a good one.

There are a couple extra spaces available in the firewall plug where the harnesses go to the engine compartment, but I was concerned about safely routing the wire to the other side so it wouldn't be able to get hot enough to melt from anything. The route that I used is totally protected from the outside so I won't have to worry about it getting caught on anything beneath the tractor. I just wanted to make sure everyone knew there were other options that you could take if you chose to do so.

I used all crimpless heat shrink butt connectors with solder built in and heat shrink crimp on terminal connectors for the relay and the ignition switch fix. It probably wasn't necessary as my connections are all inside, but I always feel if you're going to be cutting in to wiring harnesses you want to walk away from it with a good, clean connection. I ended up putting the mounting plate on the relay and just ran a zip tie through it and zip tied it to hang off of one of the large wiring harnesses off of the dash. This will keep it from moving and still allow for easy access if I ever need to replace the fuse for anything. I ended up taking the 30a fuse out that came with the relay and installed a 25a fuse. It appears that some people have had good luck using just a 10a fuse but I guess it can depend on where you pick up your power. I also believe that CNH started calling for a 25a fuse at some point as well. I figure that I am just trying to protect the relay as everything else is still fused as it was originally. I could probably get away with a 30a since that is what the relay is rated at, but I figured I would add in a little extra cushion.

After hooking everything back up it started up the first time for 3 starts in a row. So I'm hopeful that this fixes my intermittent start problem. This was also done with the battery terminals just pushed on to the battery as I am replacing the old bolts and didn't have them on hand. So if it started fine without the cables being tightly on I'm hoping it will be good to go now after I replace the bolts.

I am just a shade tree grease monkey who is learning to work on my own stuff with the help of places like this. I am by no means an expert of anything. I just used a little mechanical knowledge and some common sense and was able to make the tractor better than it was before. I guess time will tell how well it holds up. Thanks to everyone who contributes to this forum and takes their time to help out everyone else.