TC33D wont start

[sillywilly]

First time poster. but longtime frustrated by this issue! I've experienced pretty much every issue listed in this very long thread and with the help and knowledge of the members here I've always managed to get my 2004 TC29D up and running...Until now. After a frustrating summer of 2021 I finally got the tractor to start and removed the FEL and parked in the garage to solve my starting issues once and for all. But alas I've not been able to resolve this latest issue. When I remove the positive cable from the battery terminal (leave the negative hooked to the battery) I then clip my 12 volt test light to the positive terminal touch the unhooked positive cable (the key turned on) the light lights up indicating I've got a dead short. I can reverse this procedure (clip to negative post and touch negative cable and I'm showing power going to the negative cable) I've unplugged everything one connection at a time and cannot find the dead/live short! I've replaced battery, starter solenoid, ignition switch, glow plugs. I've pulled every relay, every fuse, glow plug timer but the result is always the same. The tractor will start! But the ground cable get's smoking hot fast. Has anyone seen this before or have any advice what to try next?

 

[dlctcg]

@sillywilly - before throwing more parts at this... Have you checked your battery cables?

If not, I would definitely test your positive & negative cables... They are known to look fine but be corroded internally.

From one of my previous posts:

Cable Test:
Older New Holland battery cables often corrode inside the terminal where it is sometimes impossible to see; not sure it was an issue with your particular yr / model... You will often have voltage so everything seems good. (gauges & all are working). So you will have voltage but they will not supply the required Amperage.

You can test if there is an issue with your existing battery cables pretty simply.

Remove the negative battery cable & then take a negative jumper cable wire and place it on the bare negative post of your tractor battery. Connect the other end to a solid clean ground of the tractor (bare metal location). Try starting the tractor & see if that makes a difference...

If that doesn't change anything you can do the same process on the positive post. Disconnect the Negative jumper from the Battery terminal. Then using your positive jumper cable attach one end to where the positive battery cable connects to the starter (connect this end first), and the other end to the positive battery post (last). Make sure the jumper cable is not able to arc to near by metal. Now reconnect the Negative jumper cable to the battery & try starting the tractor again & see if that changes anything...

Doing this process you basically bypassed the battery cables on the machine, and then can troubleshoot from there.

That is where I would start first... let us know the results & we can go from there.... OH... Welcome to TBN...

 

[thclimer]

First time poster. but longtime frustrated by this issue! I've experienced pretty much every issue listed in this very long thread and with the help and knowledge of the members here I've always managed to get my 2004 TC29D up and running...Until now. After a frustrating summer of 2021 I finally got the tractor to start and removed the FEL and parked in the garage to solve my starting issues once and for all. But alas I've not been able to resolve this latest issue. When I remove the positive cable from the battery terminal (leave the negative hooked to the battery) I then clip my 12 volt test light to the positive terminal touch the unhooked positive cable (the key turned on) the light lights up indicating I've got a dead short. I can reverse this procedure (clip to negative post and touch negative cable and I'm showing power going to the negative cable) I've unplugged everything one connection at a time and cannot find the dead/live short! I've replaced battery, starter solenoid, ignition switch, glow plugs. I've pulled every relay, every fuse, glow plug timer but the result is always the same. The tractor will start! But the ground cable get's smoking hot fast. Has anyone seen this before or have any advice what to try next?

Just curious, what did you replace your ignition switch with and OEM one and how long ago was that?

Let us know the outcome of the battery cable test.

 

[tmeric7]

When I remove the positive cable from the battery terminal (leave the negative hooked to the battery) I then clip my 12 volt test light to the positive terminal touch the unhooked positive cable (the key turned on) the light lights up indicating I've got a dead short. I can reverse this procedure (clip to negative post and touch negative cable and I'm showing power going to the negative cable)

I believe you are misunderstanding your test (or I misunderstand what you are doing, haha). You are getting the results I expect. Your test demonstrates that you have 12V "available" to the system, just like if you touched your test light to the + and - terminals of a completely disconnected battery. If the test light did not illuminate, than you would have an open circuit and could not power the tractor at all. I verified this buy recreating your test on my truck. See attached pic, ignition on. This test checks for the presence of voltage, not excess current, which seems to be your true concern.

Now, on to that... you say that the ground cable get's smoking hot fast. I want to be clear here... do you mean the negative battery cable to the frame? If so, then the + cable does not get hot in the same way, correct?

Assuming the answers to those questions are both yes, you could have (A) excess current draw somehow, or (B) a bad negative battery cable.

If it's B (my current guess), then I would think the cable must be getting hot mostly from cranking the engine because that's the only normal high current drawn. If you believe this could be what's happening, then replace the negative battery cable. It's cheap/easy/quick, and others have see this problem on these tractors.

If it's A, as it seems you've been thinking, that's more curious. Answer those two questions above and we can explore more. If it is getting quite hot quickly, the cable is OK, and it's not associated with starting, then I would think the main fuse should blow (main fuse is not associated with the starting circuit).

Everything said, I agree with dlctcg: the hot cable itself is where I'd focus attention now.

 

[sillywilly]

I believe you are misunderstanding your test (or I misunderstand what you are doing, haha). You are getting the results I expect. Your test demonstrates that you have 12V "available" to the system, just like if you touched your test light to the + and - terminals of a completely disconnected battery. If the test light did not illuminate, than you would have an open circuit and could not power the tractor at all. I verified this buy recreating your test on my truck. See attached pic, ignition on. This test checks for the presence of voltage, not excess current, which seems to be your true concern.

Now, on to that... you say that the ground cable get's smoking hot fast. I want to be clear here... do you mean the negative battery cable to the frame? If so, then the + cable does not get hot in the same way, correct?

Assuming the answers to those questions are both yes, you could have (A) excess current draw somehow, or (B) a bad negative battery cable.

If it's B (my current guess), then I would think the cable must be getting hot mostly from cranking the engine because that's the only normal high current drawn. If you believe this could be what's happening, then replace the negative battery cable. It's cheap/easy/quick, and others have see this problem on these tractors.

If it's A, as it seems you've been thinking, that's more curious. Answer those two questions above and we can explore more. If it is getting quite hot quickly, the cable is OK, and it's not associated with starting, then I would think the main fuse should blow (main fuse is not associated with the starting circuit).

Everything said, I agree with dlctcg: the hot cable itself is where I'd focus attention now.

Thank you for all the reply's
First let me clarify a few things.
1)I'm am severely challenged electrically Mechanically I'm on pretty firm ground.
2) Most of the new parts were related to the "click click click" starting issues we've all experienced.
3)I did replace the negative cable awhile back. (Yes to the frame)

See attached pic, ignition on. This test checks for the presence of voltage, not excess current, which seems to be your true concern. "I did not know this!


Just curious, what did you replace your ignition switch with and OEM one and how long ago was that?

Let us know the outcome of the battery cable test.
I'm on my 3rd NH ignition switch in 15 yrs and I don't believe any of them are actually bad the latest I bought 3 months ago.(I do have a brand new NAPA ignition switch sitting on my work bench bought the last time I couldn't get it to start...But of course got it running before I installed it.)


Tried to start just now Tractor turns over but won't light (I have entire dash tore apart so I may have a wire or two disconnected yet) Good news is ground cable not hot positive cable was warm but not bad for as long as I cranked it?
I'm going to button everything up tomorrow night and see if she'll run...Stay tuned!

 

[thclimer]

Thank you for all the reply's
First let me clarify a few things.
1)I'm am severely challenged electrically Mechanically I'm on pretty firm ground.
2) Most of the new parts were related to the "click click click" starting issues we've all experienced.
3)I did replace the negative cable awhile back. (Yes to the frame)

See attached pic, ignition on. This test checks for the presence of voltage, not excess current, which seems to be your true concern. "I did not know this!


Just curious, what did you replace your ignition switch with and OEM one and how long ago was that?

Let us know the outcome of the battery cable test.
I'm on my 3rd NH ignition switch in 15 yrs and I don't believe any of them are actually bad the latest I bought 3 months ago.(I do have a brand new NAPA ignition switch sitting on my work bench bought the last time I couldn't get it to start...But of course got it running before I installed it.)


Tried to start just now Tractor turns over but won't light (I have entire dash tore apart so I may have a wire or two disconnected yet) Good news is ground cable not hot positive cable was warm but not bad for as long as I cranked it?
I'm going to button everything up tomorrow night and see if she'll run...Stay tuned!

Thanks for the update.

Just some cautionary advise, if you are trying to start your tractor and after about 4-5 seconds of engaging the starter it has not started, or seems like its almost going to, I would stop and let things cool off for a few minutes and start checking a few things, fuel in filter bowl, air intake clear, no wires chewed, no fuse blown....

By continually cracking the engine over for more than 4-5 seconds without any indication that it almost catching you are just degrading your battery and overheating the starting components most critically the starter.

 

[Strummer]

I’m back with the damn intermittent starting issue . Though I had it solved . I just bought all the stuff needed to wire in the extra relay and a different key switch .

 

[tmeric7]

Good luck. The relay circuit helped several of us. Not a bad job, but tricky if you have a FEL stuck on.

 

[sillywilly]

Thank you for all the reply's
First let me clarify a few things.
1)I'm am severely challenged electrically Mechanically I'm on pretty firm ground.
2) Most of the new parts were related to the "click click click" starting issues we've all experienced.
3)I did replace the negative cable awhile back. (Yes to the frame)

See attached pic, ignition on. This test checks for the presence of voltage, not excess current, which seems to be your true concern. "I did not know this!


Just curious, what did you replace your ignition switch with and OEM one and how long ago was that?

Let us know the outcome of the battery cable test.
I'm on my 3rd NH ignition switch in 15 yrs and I don't believe any of them are actually bad the latest I bought 3 months ago.(I do have a brand new NAPA ignition switch sitting on my work bench bought the last time I couldn't get it to start...But of course got it running before I installed it.)


Tried to start just now Tractor turns over but won't light (I have entire dash tore apart so I may have a wire or two disconnected yet) Good news is ground cable not hot positive cable was warm but not bad for as long as I cranked it?
I'm going to button everything up tomorrow night and see if she'll run...Stay tuned!

Sorry I never got around to updating! Honey Do took priority. Finally got around to working on this today. I did replace the ignition with the NAPA Still wouldn't start! Next I went to the fuse holder...I do not have my original Owners manual but I've got one from Messicks.It shows the first three fuses to be 7.5 (top to bottom) then no fuse in the next two positions then a 20 amp and that it? I know originally all or most of the fuse positions had a fuse. Looked on line and found this

Replaced all fuses with the correct amperage and bam! she lit right up It appears all is good for now. I would ask if someone could please list the actual shot of the the fuse box or at least a top to bottom listing of fuse order. Thanks all for the replies.

 

[thclimer]

See attached, one from the Service Manaul and the other from the Operator's Manual