Tankless water heater

[kenmac]

I can purchase any of the tankless water heaters at cost and install it myself , but it is my opinion that there is nothing better than a storage (tank) gas type w.h.less parts& switches to break.

 

[Charolais]

I installed and electric model back around Sept. of 04. I bought a two element unit. It uses two 40 amp double pole breakers.

To get the right temp. for a shower I use only the hot water side of the faucet and set the temp. in the unit so it's just right for shower. Only 3 of us here at home now and my daughter comes home about once a month from college. They all like it.

I took 3 months of electric bill prior to installing the tankless heater and three months after. Got an average of 10 kwh per day less usage with the tankless heater.

One change we did have to make. We started using the water heater that's built into the dishwasher. The tankless won't get the water hot enough with out it.

Before buying a tankless you need to know GPM on all the faucets. Then size the unit for that water flow.

Would I buy another when this one plays out? You bet. No more tanks for me. I don't run out of hot water with the tankless either.


I bought a CeC Power Star. Think I paid $600 for it.

 

[_RaT_]

Wow, 2 40 amp 2 pole breakers, that would be around 16000 to 18000 watts of energy I suspect, more then any single device I have ever heard of. I'm curious, did you replace an older style water heater, the new ones are insulated much better then the old fiberglass ones. Any issues taking a shower and the washing machine filling up?

 

[MarkV]

My experience with a thankless electric unit was not good. We built a weekend home and it seemed logical to only heat water when we were at the place. This has been about seven years ago so the products must have improved based on the positive remarks some of you have made. In our case we could never get a good balance on the water output. It was either all hot or all cold which does not make for an enjoyable shower. This was a whole house unit and the longer runs took way to long for hot water to arrive.

Rat, ours also took 80 amps in the form of a 50 amp breaker and a 30 amp breaker. For those considering replacing an existing tank unit, check and see if your panel will handle the extra load and if new wire can be run in an economical way.

MarkV

 

[Dargo]

I currently have 2 tankless water heaters and 2 old tank models. I am really pleased with the performance of my tankless water heaters. I will most likely never go with an obsolete tank again. It is a proven fact that the tankless water heaters last longer, use less energy, and deliver an unlimited supply of hot water. Also, they did not cost me any more than it would have cost me to put back in an obsolete tank model. I've not used any of the inexpensive models that can be purchased at Lowes or Home Depot, as they did not provide the volume of hot water I need. Buying the correct size is important. (just like with a tank model)

As I mentioned, it did not cost me any more at all to go with the tankless. The builder I use now almost exclusively uses the tankless units after doing my guest house. He did the research along with me last year because he was curious as to how well the tankless units perform. Like me, he found that if you use the correct sized unit, there is almost no down side to going tankless.

My tank water heaters seem to go out right on cue at 10 years. (avg. life expectancy for tank models) All the research I can find on the internet, and what my builder found in asking professionals, shows that the average tankless water heaters have a life expectancy of around 20 years before they need repairs. Also, every component in my tankless water heaters is replaceable. That means that, in theory, I would never have to replace the entire unit.

 

[_RaT_]

Dargo, it has not been my experience that tank models go out in 10 years, quite the contrary, they seem to last forever. I would not put in a obselete gas tank in either, the newer models are more efficient both in terms of the heat they extract from the burner which is greater then that of a tankless and in terms of insulation value both because of better R value and resistance to air flow. My tankless developed cracks in the copper used to extract the heat from the burn flame and get it to the copper coils. I gave it away for all it's problems. The exiting gases were quite hot meaning the efficiency was less at a given point in time. I was on natural gas at the time and since the only thing gas was the water heater, it was easy to do close comparisons. The bill between the two was within $2 of each other, the tank winning out. The water heater tank I replaced my tankless with had the burner up in a recess in the tank and had a very high Rvalue. I am still going to check into the models you have for both our guest house and cabin. If I can get more positive feedback, it would be a consideration. They have obviously improved based on your experience. Thanks for the info on yours. Rat...

 

[kenmac]

All I can say is that prices must be high where you are. A residential gas tank type w. h. doesnot cost $600.00 where I am . I had a 50 gal. nat. gas tank w.h. that I installed w.h. only cost $250.00.If the water heaters that you have installed are going out every 10 years thers is something wrong with the water & your tankless w. h. will ( should ) go out in that same time frame because there is water in that tankless w.h when not in use. you may need a water filter.

 

[Dargo]

Please check with your local plumming supply store. It is a published national average for tank water heaters to last about 10 to 15 years. It is has nothing to do with my local gas prices or my water supply. You show me where you can buy a high efficiency power vent 50 gallon water heater for $250. If there is one, I definitely would not risk my family and my house by putting in a cheap water heater that could put CO2 in my house or rupture. When it comes to the safety of my family, I'll never go cheap. And, I'd never recommend anyone else do so.

Again, there was basically no difference in price for a high quality tankless water heater vs. a quality 50 gallon power vent tank model. And, it may not be much for some people, but for each tank water heater I replaced, I saved roughly $20 per month on my gas bill. To me, for the same price, unlimited hot water flow, longer life, and noticable energy savings, I'll still go with a tankless every time. But, that's just me.

 

[kenmac]

If you have a tankless w.h. and are happy with it I'm ok with that . The are only about 3-4 companies that make tank type water heaters for every one state,rheem, ao smith & there maybe 1 more not sure who may have been bough out this nonth but these are the top 3. & the water make up in different parts of the country does shorten the life of a w.h. or the anode in the tank.The larger the anode the longer the warranty. I & alot of people I come in contact with have beat the nat. average I'm in the plumbing,gas, hvac business & I see tank type water heaters that have been 30+ years mine has been in for 22 yrs.Again if you are happy with tour tankless thats great I hope it gives you years of trouble free service. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif I think you mean co instead of co2 (carbon monoxide)

 

[_RaT_]

Rinnai Tankless Water Heater

Dargo, is this the product your happy with?

 

[bmac]

I, too, am in the process of building a new home (well, we've not actually begun construction yet. But hopefully soon.) Interestingly, I spoke with the folks at Rinnai just this morning about their tankless water heaters. The engineer I spoke to said, based upon the information I gave him regarding the number of bathrooms, that I would need 3 of their units to supply our home. Now, I don't know how the Suggested Retail Price compares with the actual sales price, but he quoted me a price of about $1300 per unit. OUCH!!!!

Now, I'd bet that we could get by with 2 units, but still the price would be much higher than with tanks.

Good luck with your decision. I still have some time before I have to commit.

 

[_RaT_]

Why so many, I thought the unit could do as many as 8.5 gallons/minute? How many bathrooms will you have or perhaps a better question, how many folks live at home? 3 units running at one time, I wonder if my propane tank could handle it? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[willywildes]

Noritz has a unit that does 13.5 GPM 300,000 BTU. they might be recommending three units for a large home, for quicker hot water. it's more energy efficient than the re circulating pump running the unit to keep the whole house hot. If you have body jets,a rain shower head and a regular shower head you can burn up 13.5 gpm pretty quick. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

 

[_RaT_]

A regular shower head is all I need provided he water is warm.

 

[willywildes]

Some people have pools some have spas some have ultimate showers its all in what floats your Bar of soap.

 

[_RaT_]

<font color="blue"> they might be recommending three units for a large home, for quicker hot water. it's more energy efficient than the re circulating pump running the unit to keep the whole house hot. </font>

Actually, I have installed several of these, the remote contolled wireless models. Metlund Systems.

 

[Dargo]

I have found that each Rinnai commercial unit (tan, not beige) more than replaces a 50 gallon water heater. One of the residential beige units seems to equal a 50 gallon tank water heater. And, yes, I can see where you would need 3 or more of the Rinnai units for homes that are around 10,000 sq. ft. and larger.
On price, after the current rebate, the residential units can be had for the mid $500 price range. You do need a Rinnai certified installer to install them properly. If your contractor or plummer is not Rinnai certified, it only takes a few hours one afternoon to get their certification. My contractor got certified, and had 3 of his people also get certified.

 

[_RaT_]

So if I buy a Rinnai, I need to be certified in order to buy it? Or is it the warranty that is the issue? I have the need to install two at different locations in the near future if I find them suitable. Thanks.

 

[Dargo]

Rat, I'll have to check to see. I bought mine through my contractor mainly to get a better price than I was quoted. I think the installer has to sign off on the warranty forms to validate the warranty. Again, I'll have to check. I now recall my contractor telling me to not talk too much about him installing a commercial unit in my house. Oops! /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Apparently Rinnai doesn't like that due to the possible risk of scalding. I'm told that in a restaurant, for example, the dishes need to be washed at 180 degrees per the health department. Trust me, you don't want 180 degree water coming out of your shower! /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif But, hey, it's great for making instant coffee! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif