Tandem axle wagon build

[Hooked_on_HP]

My only concern with the axles that far apart is how bad it will tear up the yard when I turn. I got quite a bit more done this after noon. I got the cross braces welded on the box frame. I was going to take some pics but the batteries on the camera were dead. I will take some tomorrow.
Bill

 

[Hooked_on_HP]

I need some help. I got the frame work for the box done.I mocked up the hyd. cyl. and wasn't close to where I though I would be.It is a 4" dia. 24" stroke. From what other posters have said I want the box to raise to around 50deg. The only way I can achieve that is to push off the second cross member from the rear. This will create a lot more stress on the box frame work.This is a cyl. I had laying around. If I were to buy a new longer cyl. how small of dia. could I get away with.
Bill

 

[powerstroke444e]

On the one I built I have the cyl. attached @ the rear and pushing on the front of the box. I had to lower the mount point of cyl on rear cross member but it gives me about 55 degree dump and has dumped everything I could pile on my trailer but its only 3x6 made out of old fuel tank but works good in yards with atv(which has hyd. outlets on it) and mini excavator or B26 doing the digin.

 

[rambler]

Nice work.

You will be happy with the wheels back a ways - dump trailers shouldn't be close to center, as they _dump_ and you always have a lot of weight on the rear. You might wish they were back even a bit more.

Did you ever consider rocking axles, no springs? They ride real good at tractor speeds, and the trailer woudn't settle with a load on it. It's nice to have a stable height for a dump trailer, empty it is high to load, full it is low to fit the cyclinder & all under it & not drag. You dump, and the thing raises up as weight comes off it - can be handy, but can be a pain if you want a controlled dump..... The bigger problem is if some material hangs on one side, then the trailer will really lean when raised, one side get light, the other is heavy, & the springs allow it to lean. At your size it should be ok and not dangerous but it will be noticable.

Dump trailers you want very very stable.

Have you looked into a sissors style hoist, you seem to have the skills to make one. They use strong arms to raise the bed, and the cylinder moved the arms. You should have plenty of hyd pressure to make it work. Allows you to pick the arm length to work with your cyl travel and get you to any dump angle you want.

Nice work, wish I had the skills.

--->Paul

 

[dcyrilc]

I need some help. I got the frame work for the box done.I mocked up the hyd. cyl. and wasn't close to where I though I would be.It is a 4" dia. 24" stroke. From what other posters have said I want the box to raise to around 50deg. The only way I can achieve that is to push off the second cross member from the rear. This will create a lot more stress on the box frame work.This is a cyl. I had laying around. If I were to buy a new longer cyl. how small of dia. could I get away with.
Bill

I was thinking the same thing as rambler for the sissors style hoist (more work for the new ironworker). Also, you could add diagonal braces from the center of the cross member to the front corners if you are worried about the cross member bending.

 

[Hooked_on_HP]

I'm not sure I know exatly what you are talking about. I have seen some old grain trucks that had the cly. mounted horizontal and pushed on the short side of curved arm that was on a pivot. Is this what you are talking about.
Bill

 

[dcyrilc]

I'm not sure I know exatly what you are talking about. I have seen some old grain trucks that had the cly. mounted horizontal and pushed on the short side of curved arm that was on a pivot. Is this what you are talking about.
Bill

Here is one example, but not the type I was thinking of. http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...nker-flatbed-dump-dump-truck-dumper-018-small I'll keep looking and see if I can find a better pic of what I'm envisioning.

 

[dcyrilc]

OK, try these pix.
http://ccequipmentforsale.com/mediac/400_0/media/dumping$20duece$20007.JPG
http://www.kidstravelzone.com/Embroidery/Embpics/dump_truck.gif
http://img.alibaba.com/photo/103199462/Used_Isuzu_Dump_truck_Giga.jpg

Food for thought.

 

[SPIKER]

There are many different types of scissor lifts that can be put into a dump trailer. Those shown are typical though and are designed to get greater lift from shorter large diameter cylinders. I would like to say that the cylinder supports should be beefier than what they are if you intend to put some thing like gravel and or damp sand onto it. It will be fine as built for wood and or mulch though. If you take a look at how the under bed supports are cross supported in both directions and the dual parallel supports that are tied to the cylinder in mine the 2x2 tube is 1/4 wall what you have appears to be 14 gauge tubing. The bends look too tight to be much heavier than that. The floor of the trailer I built also has a LOTS of rigidity built into it as it is bent heavy gauge, 11 gauge metal with the double bends welded to the 2x2x 1/4" wall tube with good stitch welds. I had not bent or given at all with the 2.5 CU-Yards of wet sand/gravel that I've had in there.

If you take a close look there are dual center tubes running front to rear with heavy plates dropping down to support the push points that the cylinder applies to them. The Upper cross brace on yours where the rod end of the cylinder is at may interfere with the lower support brace between the axles . I would probably run some diagonal braces under the bottom of the lower frame towards the center hydraulic support and them back up towards the center of the trailer lower frame so that there is some triangulated structure to support the lower end. the upper end will receive more support form the box (as long as you are making it from welded steel.) I would also add a few front to rear braces to the top frame between the cross members and attach the upper end of the hyd cylinder to them.
looking great so far...

Mark

 

[Hooked_on_HP]

WARNING when using compressed air on a hydraulic cylinder it moves extremely fast and hurts like **** when it hits you in the chest. ( dumb ***** attack)

I figured out where I am mounting my cyl. I ended up with the cyl. pointing up at a 17 deg angle and when raised all the way the box is at a 43deg angle.The end of the cyl. is 3" above the axle so clearance shouldn't be an issue. I think this will be enough dump angle since I am going to put a liner in it. It would probably ok with out the liner.For test purposes I tacked and strapped things in place and every thing works fine. Now I still have to decide the best way to mount the cyl. I think i am going to have to go back to the steel yard.
Bill

 

[dcyrilc]

WARNING when using compressed air on a hydraulic cylinder it moves extremely fast and hurts like **** when it hits you in the chest. ( dumb ***** attack)

I figured out where I am mounting my cyl. I ended up with the cyl. pointing up at a 17 deg angle and when raised all the way the box is at a 43deg angle.The end of the cyl. is 3" above the axle so clearance shouldn't be an issue. I think this will be enough dump angle since I am going to put a liner in it. It would probably ok with out the liner.For test purposes I tacked and strapped things in place and every thing works fine. Now I still have to decide the best way to mount the cyl. I think i am going to have to go back to the steel yard.
Bill

Bill,
What would it do if you moved the ram about 3" to the rear? Would it still clear the axle under load? If so, the dump angle would improve.

 

[leveller]

WARNING when using compressed air on a hydraulic cylinder it moves extremely fast and hurts like **** when it hits you in the chest. ( dumb ***** attack)

I figured out where I am mounting my cyl. I ended up with the cyl. pointing up at a 17 deg angle and when raised all the way the box is at a 43deg angle.The end of the cyl. is 3" above the axle so clearance shouldn't be an issue. I think this will be enough dump angle since I am going to put a liner in it. It would probably ok with out the liner.For test purposes I tacked and strapped things in place and every thing works fine. Now I still have to decide the best way to mount the cyl. I think i am going to have to go back to the steel yard.
Bill

I got my hoses made up today and got to try out my dump trailer powered by the hydraulics on my tractor. I have my cylinder mounted at 13 degrees, and everything works well. Seems to have enough power to lift a load. I had two big guys standing on the very front edge of the trailer, and it lifted this (about 400 lbs.) with ease. I think before I do my final welding, I will drop the front of the cylinder another inch, which will give me about 2 degrees more angle. From all the experimenting I have done, I feel that 15 degree angle on the cylinder is about the minimum angle you should have. Your 17 degrees should be even better. Greg
P.S. I agree, testing with compressed air is dangerous, I have a bruise to prove it!

 

[Hooked_on_HP]

P.S. I agree, testing with compressed air is dangerous, I have a bruise to prove it!

I Thought I was just bruised untill I went to bed.I couldn't find any position where I wasn't in pain. I went to the ER and found out I have 3 cracked ribs.Oh well as my dad always said "If your going to be dumb you better be tough". Work on the trailer is going to slow down for a little while.
Bill

 

[SPIKER]

I Thought I was just bruised untill I went to bed.I couldn't find any position where I wasn't in pain. I went to the ER and found out I have 3 cracked ribs.Oh well as my dad always said "If your going to be dumb you better be tough". Work on the trailer is going to slow down for a little while.
Bill

LOL yaI like your dads quote, not the 3 broken ribs part though I hate when that happens.! I however when using the compressed air understood that it will move very jerky and when it moves it moves FAST for a good number of inches then stops slightly... I used regulated air pressure and a 1/4" dia hard hose to air mine upso as it built pressure i was able to watch it and move out of the way...

Mark M

 

[leveller]

I Thought I was just bruised untill I went to bed.I couldn't find any position where I wasn't in pain. I went to the ER and found out I have 3 cracked ribs.Oh well as my dad always said "If your going to be dumb you better be tough". Work on the trailer is going to slow down for a little while.
Bill

That sounds painful! I also used a regulater on my air line, just got bumped when the box came down, nothing like you experienced. Hope you heal up quickly, I am enjoying your build, Greg

 

[Hooked_on_HP]

I had a regulator on mine set at 50 psi. It raised the box up about a foot and stopped. I figured it wouldn't go any higher without adjusting the reg. I was bent over the front of the box looking things over when all of a sudden the box shot up picking me up a couple of feet off the ground. I really think the reg. failed. It could have been a lot worse if hit me in the head.(might have bent the trailer). Maybe tomorrow I will get back to work on it. Greg I am glad to see you are making good progress on yours.
Bill

 

[dcyrilc]

I Thought I was just bruised untill I went to bed.I couldn't find any position where I wasn't in pain. I went to the ER and found out I have 3 cracked ribs.Oh well as my dad always said "If your going to be dumb you better be tough". Work on the trailer is going to slow down for a little while.
Bill

Ouch. As I tell my partner at work... "Don't do that".
His response is usually something like... "Now you tell me!"

 

[Brad_Blazer]

I had a regulator on mine set at 50 psi. It raised the box up about a foot and stopped. I figured it wouldn't go any higher without adjusting the reg. I was bent over the front of the box looking things over when all of a sudden the box shot up picking me up a couple of feet off the ground. I really think the reg. failed. It could have been a lot worse if hit me in the head.(might have bent the trailer). Maybe tomorrow I will get back to work on it. Greg I am glad to see you are making good progress on yours.
Bill

With that regulator setup you would get a constant force "spring". The cylinder mount geometry gives it increasing leverage as it goes up so any intermediate position is unstable.
It might have temporarily stopped as the air flow caught up to the initial motion.

 

[SPIKER]

I'm looking into fixing my dump up this year and am looking at something like this

Dump Trailer Pump 12V DC Double Acting Hydraulic Pump - eBay (item 350258904612 end time Jan-27-10 10:10:04 PST)

reason I'm after the double acting is I have had mine stick UP when the load slid rearward all dumping off fast in one spot and I didnt want it all there. wanted to spread it out some. it also comes with a remote I posted same info in the other thread too...

Mark

 

[Hooked_on_HP]

Mark, I have been looking at that pump also. I was wondering if the reservoir is big enough for a 4"x24"cyl. I also wondered how slow it would raise. I the calculators I used are correct it would take 60 sec. to raise and 40sec to lower. That is awfully slow.
Bill