Tailwheel vs impact gun

[94BULLITT]

It is a gamble buying cheap stuff and sometimes even good stuff. I would not consider craftsman a quality tool, they are barely homeowner grade. I realize that name does not matter either. I'd rather spend a little more for a air wrench that is supposed to be more powerful and I would like to think is reliable. Popular Mechanics tests a lot of power tools. The harbor freight tools don't do bad for the money but who knows how well they will hold up. I like to buy stuff once and be done with it, not necessarily what is the most expensive or cheapest but what I feel is a good bang for the buck.

 

[Soundguy]

the problem with buying onece, is you lock into a wear / lifespan issue. at half way thru lifespan.. it's a worn tool. when you can buy a lil cheaper and have a 'new' un worn tool, more often. higher average of 'newness'

 

[94BULLITT]

When you buy a little cheaper you buy a heavier, less powerful, and uncomfortable tool that is a throw away tool vs a quality tool that is worth fixing and you can get parts for.

 

[crazyal]

you can of course do whatever you want to do with your $.. but consider this concept.

gun a, brand name, suposed good quality due to name recognition, 500$

gun b, knock off brand, presumed less quality, 100$

situation 1, light homeowner use:

Under light use, both a/b may last a 'lifetime' spinning a couple bolts out a year.

end result.. one gun cost you 400$

situation 2, heavier use



both guns used much more frequently, after 2 years gun b needs replacing, gun a, starting to wear, but still going very well... 2 more years, gun b needs replacing, gun a very much worn. 2 more years, gun a dead, gun b also dead... replace.

where are you at? you have spent 400$ on gun b. every 2 years it's a new gun, thus new performance. You spent 500% on guna, and it steadly wore down to needing replacing. at half time of this event, gun b was brand new. gun a was half way thru usefull life. net result.. you are ahead by 100$


I've done this comparison on MANY types of tools used in a industrial / construction environment.

brush hogs for example. we USED to buy the expensive brand name models that cost 1200$ vs a 550$ king kutter or howse.

what did we find? A car rim on the side of the road, after you hit them a couple times.. don't really care of it is destroying a 1100$ 'bush hog' or a 550$ king kutter. after nearly 2 decades of research.. we ende dup saving money using lower priced hogs. death rate was very similar on machines up to 2x$ price range.

smaller tools? chainsaws? weed whackers? hand tools?

hand tools. a theif can steel a 3$ 1/4" drive ratchet set from harbor freight.. or he can steal a 50$ craftsman one... same amount of time... both have lifetime warranty 1 costs my company more to replace. ( i've also found the theifs don't like to steal the 3$ chinese sockets either.. not something they can go pawn... ).. We've had thefts where the criminal went thru.. left low priced tools and took high priced ones. places that only had low cost tools were not touched. )

when out on a job and I find no other way around welding a 2" socket to the and of a pipe to get down in a hole... i'd rather do so with a socket I can replace for 5$ than one that I have to replace for 35$.

when I need to torch a 1.25" wrench into a stubby to get to a bolt to hold it. or put an S bend in a 1" wrench.. I'd rather do it to one I can repalce for 5$ vs one for 35$

a 175$ poulan chainsaw looks about the same as a 350$ huskie AFTER it has fallen off a tailgate driving down the side of a road doing ROW maintenance... OR after dropping a tree across it. one just eats less of a hole in the job profits.

when they are both running with rent-a-drunks . both have the same approximate lifespans in number of hours used. weed eaters work out the same...

ps.. none of this is made up. This is just looking thru my tool file I've maintained over the past years here at work at a GC....

expensive is nce.

expensive doe not always mean quality.. but generally used to anyway.. expensive does always equal expensive however.

economy does not always equal cheap..


here's another way of looking at it.

If I as a contractor have to put a 2500$ tool set in each one of my service trucks, to set out on the MSTU road job i'm building outside your house... or I can put in 700$ worth of tools... what do you think that does tot he price of that road. which in turn.. what happens to the price of your special assessment tax on your property taxes? I save money.. you save money... there ain't no free lunch.

with todays tool manufactring tech.. many tools pour out of china anyway.. reguardless of who's name is stamped on them. if I can pay 1/4 and get a working tool and save everybody money down the line.... why not ??

btdt, got the greasy sweaty tshirt...

PS.. this isn't 1980 when a cheap pakistan or tiwanese socket set was 10$ and a craftsman was 30-50, and there was a HUGE difference in quality.

this is 2012, and a craftsman wrench for 30$ laying next to a HF wrench for 5$ both have hece en chine engraved on them and both ahve a warranty.. and may have come from the same factory.. and are quite possibly the same level of quality.

different ballgame. maechanics from the earlier part of the last century had a legitimate argument vs against owning a cheap tool.

playing field went thru a major leveling with rise of industrial technology overseas, and us farming out as many jobs as possible. you CAN get a high quality, CHEAPER tool nowadays....

I have a good friend who owns a sprinkler business with about 30 employees. He basically came to the same conclusion. He is a big fan of Milwaukee tools. But no matter what he did or said they would either get broken or come up missing. Every time they would send a job box to a worksite they would do an inventory and then when it came back they would do another one. After years of replacing tools he finally just switched to HF tools. Sure they don't last as long but he can buy 5 or 6 for the price of one name brand tool. Plus he can put two of the same tool in the box so if one breaks they can keep working. With name brand tools he couldn't afford to so when something was lost or broke the foreman would have to send someone back to the shop for a replacement. In their shop they still have name brand tools but he's in his shop enough throughout the day to so he knows when something breaks and who was working there that day. The only name brand tools he sends to jobsites now are pipe wrenches and pipe threaders. For everything else his accountant has shown that he's saving quite a bit of money.

 

[kencunningham]

Someone gave my dad a impact years ago when i was just a small kid. It sat in my dads shop for years and never got used, not once. When i was about twelve i pulled it out of the pile and tried it. I wouldnt do anything but blow air thru. I took it apart and cleaned the vanes and the slots that they go into. Sure enough, the tool was brought back to life. I think i would try cleaning it before going out and buying another.

 

[joshuabardwell]

The real question here, I think, is what's the lifespan of a quality tool vs. a cheap one. Some quality tools will outlive ten or twenty cheap ones, in which case you may as well buy the quality one. Even when it's halfway worn, it'll out-work a new one. The idea that you could trade a half-worn impact wrench with a brand new cheap one is kind of silly. If the half-worn impact wrench still has enough torque to put on and take off the fasteners you work with, who cares if it's not brand new? And if the brand new one won't do the job, likewise, who cares?

Let's not forget the cost of downtime in this equation. When a tool breaks, you lose time replacing or repairing it. Some of those old tools were built like tanks. They run just as hard today as they did when they rolled off the line. And they will keep working, even under abusive conditions, where a cheaper tool would crap out.

I agree that if your tools are going to get abused, lost, or stolen, you may as well buy cheap. The first guy to run your chainsaw without oil, or to put straight gas in instead of 2-stroke mix, is going to damage or destroy it, whether it's a Poulan or a Stihl. Drop it out of a tree, and it'll be just as broke. But again, that all hinges on both tools being able to do the job. If you need a 36" bar to buck logs, you're not going to be doing it with a Poulan under any circumstances.

 

[Soundguy]

When you buy a little cheaper you buy a heavier, less powerful, and uncomfortable tool that is a throw away tool vs a quality tool that is worth fixing and you can get parts for.

elements of that statement are unqualified.

the 1" air gun, for instance, I have from HF is the EXACT same size and within ounces of weight as the klutch model from lowes, and an IR we have at work.

you toss out 'quality' like it's a label that is affixed to anything that costs alot. and.. sadly.. it isn't

many tools roll out side by side.. some get expensive brand names.. some get cheap.

all depends on whose pockets you want to line. yours or theirs. ??

i'm lining mine.

I've no need for a 500$ IR 1" gun that i'll need 1-2 per year.. when my 100$ gun works fine... that 400$ can set in my ira or pay my mortgage or something. I'n not so into vanity that I have to have a brand name on my tool.. especially if i can get the same work out of one with a lesser name.

i know for some people brand is a manohood or 'size' issue or something... for me it's a dollars/sense/and does it work satisfactorilly / lifespan issue.

if I can substitute a cheaper product and get the same desired results, over time, for less money? I don't need a brand name.

ymmv

as I said. you are free to pay more to do the same work I have no issue at all with you paying more..

 

[Soundguy]

I have a good friend who owns a sprinkler business with about 30 employees. He basically came to the same conclusion. He is a big fan of Milwaukee tools. But no matter what he did or said they would either get broken or come up missing. Every time they would send a job box to a worksite they would do an inventory and then when it came back they would do another one. After years of replacing tools he finally just switched to HF tools. Sure they don't last as long but he can buy 5 or 6 for the price of one name brand tool. Plus he can put two of the same tool in the box so if one breaks they can keep working. With name brand tools he couldn't afford to so when something was lost or broke the foreman would have to send someone back to the shop for a replacement. In their shop they still have name brand tools but he's in his shop enough throughout the day to so he knows when something breaks and who was working there that day. The only name brand tools he sends to jobsites now are pipe wrenches and pipe threaders. For everything else his accountant has shown that he's saving quite a bit of money.

yep.. we came tot he same conclusion.... a tree will smash a 1wk old 500$ chainsaw just as flat as a 180$ chainsaw.

and cheap tools are less likely to be stolen.

in a harsh environment.. even a quality machine will have a reduced lifespan. if you are replacing an item regularly anyway.. might as well do it cheaper if you can, and still get the same level of work out of it.

If I have a trash pump set out on a jobsite pumping down a WRA... if it has a honda engine in it vs a robin.. it less likely to be there in the morning.. and if it isn't there.. i'm out 300$ LESS on the robin.

sad fact.. but a fact.

as you say.. the bottom line proves it...

 

[Soundguy]

If the half-worn impact wrench still has enough torque to put on and take off the fasteners you work with, who cares if it's not brand new? And if the brand new one won't do the job, likewise, who cares?

my comparison is of tools that can do some minimum level of work.

IE.. your contention that the new tool purchased is too small is not within the scope of my comment.

to make a comparison.. you'd have to buy tools that meet the minimum requirements for the task.

soundguy

 

[joshuabardwell]

This whole conversation makes me think of kitchen knives and other such supplies. You can buy boutique knives for hundreds of dollars, but my experience has been that a $20-40 "commercial-grade" knife from a restaurant supply store will get the job done just as well day in and day out, and you won't have to have a conniption if somebody puts it in the dishwasher or cuts on a hard surface. Sure, after five years it won't hold an edge anymore, and you'll have to buy a new one, but who gives a darn at $20-40 a pop.

 

[Soundguy]

at some point there is a cost of return.. and due tot he escalating price of some name brand tools.. you get diminishing returns as the $$ goes ever higher.

at some point you hit a level that cheaper is actually cheaper. ( long run ).

there are issues like down time.. however.. given the price break.. as others have mentioned. some tools are economical enough to actually have a backup already available.

when HF has the drillmaster angle grinders on sale for 9.99 I go buy one.

I bet I got at least 2 if not more on a box on the shelf.

I abuse them mercilessly.

I do have one name brand paddle switch handle grinder that never leaves the shop.. but for any tractor or fab work where it will see dirt and rain.. might get dropped inthe dirt .. or knocked off.. or heaven forbid.. dropped in use.. 9$ wins every day.

I'll also add that i'm not afraid to pull 4 bolts and check out the pinion gear head and add lube.

over the years I have seen a switch from a brown jellied grease to a dark grey or black grease which I believe to be a molly grease.

the early units from 10-20 ys ago had the cheper brown grease that teneded to bee too thick or dry and leave a cavity.. if there was very much in there at all.

adding some grease usually extended tool life by a FACTOR or 2. nowadays when i take one apart.. there seems to be plenty of molly lube in there, and i have not had a lube related drive or driven gear failer int he last 10ys.. on some early units with the brown grease.. after a few years of lack of lube.. metal erosion was evident.

I'm also not afraid to use thaose spare set of brushes they give you.

by the time you run thru 2 sets of brushes in a 9$ angle grinder.. you've gotten 9$ out of it let me tell you..

I keep all my damaged power tools as it's not surprising to find MANY parts that are interchangeable.

many, many angle and die grinders and some side cutting saws are all using a similar armature and drive setup.. robbon sanders, angle drinders.. die grinders.. etc.. plenty of examples all using common drive components i have swapped around. when I get 2-3 dead ones it's usually at the point i can put 1-2 of them back togehter, all using old salvage parts from my parts bucket. same deal with battery tools.

I have an old bat powered sawsall type deal back from the days of homier tool shows.

it's 12v bat pack long since died.. though I did retrofit it to a different style.. but I now also run it off a cig lighter or gator clip adapter. that sawsall is from the early 90's.. runs fine....

I have done demo jobs with a motorcycle battery on a carpenters waist pack, turned around backwards so the bat pack was at my back.. with a 3' zip cord running to that sawsall. makes running thru an attick or other structure or doing trim work EZ not having to tote an extension cord.. or have a heavy bat pack on the tool. without the abt pack installed in the grip it's very ligth.. maneuverable.. gets into tighter spots.. less arm fatigue.. and a motorcycle bat runs way longer than the recharge packs.. and at lunch i can charge it up off my truck or tractor easilly during the drive to the jiffy or quikmart.

soundguy

 

[94BULLITT]

elements of that statement are unqualified.

the 1" air gun, for instance, I have from HF is the EXACT same size and within ounces of weight as the klutch model from lowes, and an IR we have at work.

you toss out 'quality' like it's a label that is affixed to anything that costs alot. and.. sadly.. it isn't

many tools roll out side by side.. some get expensive brand names.. some get cheap.

all depends on whose pockets you want to line. yours or theirs. ??

i'm lining mine.

I've no need for a 500$ IR 1" gun that i'll need 1-2 per year.. when my 100$ gun works fine... that 400$ can set in my ira or pay my mortgage or something. I'n not so into vanity that I have to have a brand name on my tool.. especially if i can get the same work out of one with a lesser name.

i know for some people brand is a manohood or 'size' issue or something... for me it's a dollars/sense/and does it work satisfactorilly / lifespan issue.

if I can substitute a cheaper product and get the same desired results, over time, for less money? I don't need a brand name.

ymmv

as I said. you are free to pay more to do the same work I have no issue at all with you paying more..

The sad thing is that if the guy that started this thread had a IR or a snap on we would not be having thins discussion, which proves my point. What kind of air wrenches do guys in tire shops use? I don't think I have ever seen a HF impact in one. How many nascar teams use HF air wrenches during a pit stop? I'll pay more and do the same work in less time. Just because two air wrenches are 3/8 or 1/2 does not mean they will both perform the same. The average person or mechanic does not even need a 3/4" or 1" gun (unless you are working on big trucks or heavy equipment), I very very rarely have the need for a 3/4 gun. You would be surprised what you can get done with a good 1/2 gun, where you have 3 guns I only have the need for one.

 

[Soundguy]

I'll pay more and do the same work in less time..

unproven. if my cheap gun will perform at the minimum specs of the task you are doing.. we will likely be doing it in the same time frame.. and I'll be cheaper.

Just because two air wrenches are 3/8 or 1/2 does not mean they will both perform the same..

correct.. and I never said they did. in fact.. I said buy the level you need. if there are 10 cheap 1/2" guns from weak to strong.. buy the one that suits your application. I've never advocated doing a head to head comparison against a cheap and spendy gun with an application where the cheap gun is simply not rated for the job. get 2 guns that meet the minimum job ratings and then compair. work vs dollars. ( Hint.. if they both spin the nut off.. the expensive one has a worse ratio! )

The average person or mechanic does not even need a 3/4" or 1" gun (unless you are working on big trucks or heavy equipment),.

again.. I've already said this

where you have 3 guns I only have the need for one.

I doubt that. there may well be places that your 1 gun will be too big or too small.

I'm guessing my cheap 1" gun is gonna do at least as good as just about any 1/2"


gotta cut the talk short... I just, as of 5 m ago.. started a new job!

 

[94BULLITT]

I also have a 3/8 gun I rarely use my 1/2 gun.

 

[SPYDERLK]

Sounds like a lubrication problem with that gun, leaving the vanes in the air motor stuck a bit -- doesnt take much. Have you been feeding it a few drops of light oil and/or Kroil before and after each use. If not feed it a bunch and let it blow thru and see if you can get it to start and run both ways. This willblow out the small amt of crap caked in the vane grooves and it will be good as new ... almost.

...It may also be that the particular gun you have isnt a high power design and wont be enuf even working right. If that turns out the case, shop Ingersol Rand, Chicago Pneumatic, and other name brands for ones in the 600ftlb torque delivery range. Usually $200 or less can get you a good, very powerful gun. Cheaper powerful ones will be slightly less durable but for home shop use they should still last well.
larry

Someone gave my dad a impact years ago when i was just a small kid. It sat in my dads shop for years and never got used, not once. When i was about twelve i pulled it out of the pile and tried it. I wouldnt do anything but blow air thru. I took it apart and cleaned the vanes and the slots that they go into. Sure enough, the tool was brought back to life. I think i would try cleaning it before going out and buying another.

Its several days later now and it would have taken several minutes to find out.:confused3:

 

[OcalaPat]

does it count if I say I've never had a failure of an air tool from harbor freight.. yet in many cases I paid a fifth of what a name brand costs?

To be fair.. I use them a fifth of what a pro mechanic would too..

the 'you get what you pay for' deal has another facet.

the average homeowner who may use an air gun 1/per month.. don't always need a pro gun that has the quality to be used 8hrs a day 40 hrs a week.. nor the cost

True enough. I've got a 1" HF that I used when I had my Renegade Columbia Freightliner hot rod hauler. I used it quite a bit and still use it without issue.

I purchased my last Snap-On 1/2" just before "coming off the floor" in 1985. I still have that impact and use it quite a bit. My friend has one from HF that works OK, but I wouldn't want to count on it to take the blades off my old rotary mower.

 

[Soundguy]

I also have a 3/8 gun I rarely use my 1/2 gun.

with most of my work being on tracgtors int he 30-70hp range, my 3/8 gun hasn't been used in half a decade. 1/2" now and then.. 3/4" mostly.. and 1" infrequently.. but enough to need/want it..

 

[Soundguy]

True enough. I've got a 1" HF that I used when I had my Renegade Columbia Freightliner hot rod hauler. I used it quite a bit and still use it without issue.

I purchased my last Snap-On 1/2" just before "coming off the floor" in 1985. I still have that impact and use it quite a bit. My friend has one from HF that works OK, but I wouldn't want to count on it to take the blades off my old rotary mower.

my 3/4" and 1" gun buzz rotary mower blade bolts off with a quickness. that's the only real thing i use the 1" for anymore, past the 1 -2 specialty job I actually got it for.

it doesn't play. mind you i have a decent 60g comp, large air line and big qd ends..

 

[LTEnterprises]

The BEST and most convenient impact gun I use is a Matco 1/2 drive Lion 18v 3.0 AH impact. I use it daily @ my repair shop, has 780 ft lbs of torque !!

I believe ingersol ( who makes matco impacts) NOW offer this unit in their name.

The snap on 1/2" impact is brutal too !!

They are both a little pricey...but what good quality isn't ?

 

[DennisTC35]

Perhaps someone else has already answered, but in case:

Your impact is suffering from stuck air vanes. Doesn't take much! A little gummed up lube, grit or rust and air won't spin them free. Try a lot of rust penetrant and let it soak. Might tap the housing a few times and try again. If it doesn't eventually loosen up then it will need to be disassembled. Most likely all you will need is to free the vanes and reassemble. A parts diagram should add some confidence, but it's not that big a deal.

2-3 drops of oil and a quick "burp!" of air before you store it might prevent the vanes from seizing again.

Good luck!

Dennis T