Subsoiler success?

[Wolfy]

Anyone use a subsoiler to rip out medium size rocks? Do they actually work, or are they best used for loosening hard packed ground?

 

[daBear]

This is almost like asking how long it takes to boil 5 gallons of water. It depends. The answer to your quesiton depends on how much horsepower you have and how big the rocks are. Your medium and my medium rock may not be the same. You can put enough HP on a brick and it will fly. Same with rocks and a sub soiler which I have used to pull a few out but it is probably not the most efficent way to do it.

 

[Wolfy]

I meant maybe 50-100lb size, I have a 27hp Ford with loaded and weighted R-1s. It seems like the subsoiler would be quick to mount, when the sudden rock appears, without driving to fetch a backhoe.

 

[Redbug]

I have used mine with the 3 point attachment up front and loosened stumps up. I think it would work pretty good on back if you go slow and maybe have a little dirt in the bucket up front for ballast.

 

[art]

The subsoilers in our area are used to fracture the hard pan that farmers have been building for years by constant moldboard plowing. I can't say they don't bring up stones as they certainly do and is one of the main reasons many farmers continue the practice of moldboard plowing even with all the information that is available of facts that it actually hinders good soil management practices.

I do know your end goal is not for the most performance of a field as you don't make a living off your land but just to bring stones to the surface you should be quite satisfied with the results for the efforts of finding them.

 

[crash325]

The subsoilers in our area are used to fracture the hard pan that farmers have been building for years by constant moldboard plowing. I can't say they don't bring up stones as they certainly do and is one of the main reasons many farmers continue the practice of moldboard plowing even with all the information that is available of facts that it actually hinders good soil management practices.

I do know your end goal is not for the most performance of a field as you don't make a living off your land but just to bring stones to the surface you should be quite satisfied with the results for the efforts of finding them.

That statement sure needs some explaining. I have never seen a farmer build up "Hard Pan" to plant. Moldboard plows and rocks Do Not get along very well. What differarence does it make whither or not he makes a living off his land. Pretty much his business in my opinion.:confused2:

 

[art]

That statement sure needs some explaining. I have never seen a farmer build up "Hard Pan" to plant. Moldboard plows and rocks Do Not get along very well. What differarence does it make whither or not he makes a living off his land. Pretty much his business in my opinion.:confused2:

Farmers should not want to build hard pan! In our area they say to moldboard puts the stones back down that are small enough to not to break a machine, that is there excuse to continue the practice.

It is his business to do as he would like.. Many come here to learn good ways to do things..

 

[Farmwithjunk]

That statement sure needs some explaining. I have never seen a farmer build up "Hard Pan" to plant. Moldboard plows and rocks Do Not get along very well. What differarence does it make whither or not he makes a living off his land. Pretty much his business in my opinion.:confused2:

If you've "never seen a farmer build up hard pan", you've obviously never seen much farming as it was practiced from the beginning of mechinized farming until the past few decades.... Moldboard plows and disc's are the major cause of hard pan. Once upon a time, it was even referred to as "plow pan". No, it's not done INTENTIONALLY, nor was it even acknowledged as being a problem until recently (in the grand scheme of things) There are SOME isolated instances where moldboard plowing is still practiced, and still very much needed. HOWEVER....they're still dealing with a layer of compaction just under the depth of the plows operation. Disc's create that same compaction layer, just shallower than a moldboard plow typically.

From my experience, you want rocks to come to the surface, use a chisel plow.....That's what brings 'em up in our conditions. NO tillage tool does well with rocks, but some deal with them better than others.

 

[jenkinsph]

I meant maybe 50-100lb size, I have a 27hp Ford with loaded and weighted R-1s. It seems like the subsoiler would be quick to mount, when the sudden rock appears, without driving to fetch a backhoe.

Might have better luck using a parabolic ripper shank which would tend to push the rock upwards. These shanks have longer gradual curves that could get under the rock and make them rise to the surface. A straight shank subsoil could work but would have a harder time.

From my experience real subsoiling takes about 50 hp per point to get down deep.

Here is a picture of a parabolic ripper, notice the shape and the ability to push up on the rock from beneath it.

 

[crash325]

If you've "never seen a farmer build up hard pan", you've obviously never seen much farming as it was practiced from the beginning of mechinized farming until the past few decades.... Moldboard plows and disc's are the major cause of hard pan. Once upon a time, it was even referred to as "plow pan". No, it's not done INTENTIONALLY, nor was it even acknowledged as being a problem until recently (in the grand scheme of things) There are SOME isolated instances where moldboard plowing is still practiced, and still very much needed. HOWEVER....they're still dealing with a layer of compaction just under the depth of the plows operation. Disc's create that same compaction layer, just shallower than a moldboard plow typically.

From my experience, you want rocks to come to the surface, use a chisel plow.....That's what brings 'em up in our conditions. NO tillage tool does well with rocks, but some deal with them better than others.

Don't claim to be a big deal farmer, but I am learning. Its nice to know that you know more about me than I do.

Last time I looked sub soiler's loosened up soil. Now they are used to make hard pan.
Disks use to be used to break up clods.
Moldboard were used for planting row crops. Now they bury rocks

Have to go up and get my propane tank filled today. I will stop by the farm that's on its 3rd generation of farming and tell him he's doing it all wrong.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Don't claim to be a big deal farmer, but I am learning. Its nice to know that you know more about me than I do.

Last time I looked sub soiler's loosened up soil. Now they are used to make hard pan.
Disks use to be used to break up clods.
Moldboard were used for planting row crops. Now they bury rocks

Have to go up and get my propane tank filled today. I will stop by the farm that's on its 3rd generation of farming and tell him he's doing it all wrong.

What I DO know about you is your reading comprehension skills are apparently a little lax. NO ONE said subsoilers create hard pan. Where/Why you created THAT concept in your head, I have no idea....

Disc's work soil ON THE SURFACE, but the rolling effect, plus the weight of a tractor pulling it create compaction. There is the reason why disc's are being phased out of MODERN farming operations in favor of field cultivators, ect. Typically, a disc has to make multiple passes over a field to do it's job. Modern farmers are more likely to use an implement that does it's job in a single pass. (saves fuel AND compaction)

Plows break up the soil they turn, but compact soil UNDER that depth (with the sole of the plow and the weight of the tractor pulling the plow. This is why chisel plows, deep rippers, and even subsoilers were invented.

I grew up on a farm, OWN and operate a successful farm, and have a Masters Degree is Soil Science from Univ. of Kentucky School of Agriculture. In that "life", I've NEVER seen ANYONE "plant row crops" with a plow. That's a job for a PLANTER......

I'm 5th generation farmer, My son is 6th. (and grandson appears to be in line to be 7th generation!) So "3rd generation" doesn't particularly impress me. And what someone else MIGHT know does NOT cross over to YOUR knowledge level.....Your friend might know his business. Your knowing him doesn't give you his base of knowledge via process of osmosis.

"Art" spent most of his life selling farm equipment and has worked closely with farmers and equipment manufacturers. There's a good bit he can obviously teach you.

Maybe I DO know more about you than you realize......and MAYBE you need to realize just how much you DON'T know about the subject before you go off on a tangent about what you (think) you do know.

Have a good day. Hope you learn something today. There's a lot you need to know before attempting to play "expert" again. And don't get so irate when it's shown where your "opinion" is based on misconceptions and lack of knowledge in a given subject.

 

[jenkinsph]

That statement sure needs some explaining. I have never seen a farmer build up "Hard Pan" to plant. Moldboard plows and rocks Do Not get along very well. What differarence does it make whither or not he makes a living off his land. Pretty much his business in my opinion.:confused2:

I think you have cause and effect confused, no one wants to build up hard pan and that isn't what is suggested. Plowing with disks, tillers and moldboard plows causes the hardpan issue.

Running a subsoil plow lower than the hardpan helps to break it up. Using a chisel plow works well for shallow hardpan formed from disking.

 

[art]

Don't claim to be a big deal farmer, but I am learning. Its nice to know that you know more about me than I do.

Last time I looked sub soiler's loosened up soil. Now they are used to make hard pan.
Disks use to be used to break up clods.
Moldboard were used for planting row crops. Now they bury rocks

I can't see where anyone has said that sub soilers make hard pan?

 

[Redbug]

Hey Steve...On your parabolic ripper, what's the thing on the chain for? Is it used to open up the soil a little more? I have never seen anything like that.

 

[Agrantina]

Ok- before I ask- lets say I am new and don't know nothing I have planted the same food plot for about 8years now and do what the soil tests say and I have noticed that over the last few years I am just not getting the results that I feel like I should be getting. I was told that discing or tilling twice a year has created a hard pan.

So how do I know this is true and how do I know how deep the "hard pan" is?

I have been farming in my dreams for years!!:thumbsup:

AndyG

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Ok- before I ask- lets say I am new and don't know nothing I have planted the same food plot for about 8years now and do what the soil tests say and I have noticed that over the last few years I am just not getting the results that I feel like I should be getting. I was told that discing or tilling twice a year has created a hard pan.

So how do I know this is true and how do I know how deep the "hard pan" is?

I have been farming in my dreams for years!!:thumbsup:

AndyG

http://cropsoil.psu.edu/extension/facts/uc178.pdf

 

[Agrantina]

wow--$200- well I guess for that I can just buy one and get some extra sit time.. cant see spending that just to test 2 acres.. Well it did answer my question... thanks...

AndyG

 

[jenkinsph]

Hey Steve...On your parabolic ripper, what's the thing on the chain for? Is it used to open up the soil a little more? I have never seen anything like that.

When you pull it beneath the surface it makea a small tunnel for water to run through and collect in.

 

[Redbug]

Thanks Steve!...You never know what you may run across on these forums.