Submersible well pump recs please

[etpm]

There are certainly lotsa folks on this site who are on a well. I am. For a little over 20 years, when I had the well drilled. Now I am looking to replace my pump. Just out of caution because 20 odd years seems like a long time to me and I don't want an emergency well pump replacement.
My well will provide 15 GPM constantly. At about 16 GPM it will start to suck air. I will, rarely, over pump the well. But I haven't done that for at least 8 years. I do though pump very close to 15 GPM fairly regularly.
The pump currently down the 62 foot deep hole is a Grundfos 3 wire pump. It has been doing its job perfectly for the twenty some years since it was installed. I am thinking about once again having a Grundfos. However, I do not want a two wire pump and I don't want electronics down the hole. I am not sure if Grundfos offers a 3/4 22 GPM pump without the soft start feature. Even though I realize electronics can be very robust and last far longer than mechanical components I don't like the idea of them being incorporated into the pump itself. Right now my pump controller is mounted topside and if it fails I can service it. I don't have to replace the pump because electronics failed. And I don't have to replace electronics if the pump fails.
So, any suggestions for pump brands? I am not that concerned about price if the pump lasts 20 or 30 years. 200 bucks extra over 20 years is only 10 bucks a year.
Thanks,
Eric

 

[lman]

I've got a Red Jacket 1hp pump in my well. It's been there 28 years. I haven't had any problems yet.

 

[LittleBill21]

goulds pump are the gold standard here. nothing to see 40 years out of them

 

[Midniteoyl]

Shoot, I have a cheapo Myers Rustler 1/2" 2-wire that is still running after 21+ yrs. It's even ran for who-knows-how-long once with a split pipe that dumped water back into the well to the point the cold water out of the tap was ~80* before it was caught.

 

[etpm]

Shoot, I have a cheapo Myers Rustler 1/2" 2-wire that is still running after 21+ yrs. It's even ran for who-knows-how-long once with a split pipe that dumped water back into the well to the point the cold water out of the tap was ~80* before it was caught.

Yeah, my pump, a couple winters ago, created a huge pond from a broken pipe. It must have run 18 hours straight. If I didn't have a backhoe to dig out all the many yards of mud and to then dig another hole for all the water from the saturated ground to drain into while I fixed the break I don't know how many more hours it would have taken me to repair the break. But I think continuous running isn't really a problem. It's all the starts and stops.
Eric

 

[wheelbuilder]

I used to work for a water well driller and pump installer (quite a while back). I was always told the average life of a pump was 12 years. My personal experience is that if you don't have good water flow or you have poor quality water, you probably won't get close to that number. If you have good flow and reasonable quality water, you may double that. (My previous pump was 32 years old, my Dad had one that made it to 40. On the other hand, my mother in law had a low flowing well and was lucky to get 5 years)
I've had good life from both Meyers and Goulds pumps. Grundfos was the most expensive brand we sold, and supposedly the best.

 

[Boss 302]

Those are certainly good names, what I look for mostly whenever I am pump shopping is something with a Franklin Electric motor. We have installed quite a few and they just seem to last for many years.

 

[jyoutz]

There are certainly lotsa folks on this site who are on a well. I am. For a little over 20 years, when I had the well drilled. Now I am looking to replace my pump. Just out of caution because 20 odd years seems like a long time to me and I don't want an emergency well pump replacement.
My well will provide 15 GPM constantly. At about 16 GPM it will start to suck air. I will, rarely, over pump the well. But I haven't done that for at least 8 years. I do though pump very close to 15 GPM fairly regularly.
The pump currently down the 62 foot deep hole is a Grundfos 3 wire pump. It has been doing its job perfectly for the twenty some years since it was installed. I am thinking about once again having a Grundfos. However, I do not want a two wire pump and I don't want electronics down the hole. I am not sure if Grundfos offers a 3/4 22 GPM pump without the soft start feature. Even though I realize electronics can be very robust and last far longer than mechanical components I don't like the idea of them being incorporated into the pump itself. Right now my pump controller is mounted topside and if it fails I can service it. I don't have to replace the pump because electronics failed. And I don't have to replace electronics if the pump fails.
So, any suggestions for pump brands? I am not that concerned about price if the pump lasts 20 or 30 years. 200 bucks extra over 20 years is only 10 bucks a year.
Thanks,
Eric

I don’t know the brand of my pump. My well pump is sitting at 680’. It’s a 1.5 hp, pumping 10 gpm. We put check valves on the pipe every 40’ so the pipe is charged at all times. One of the key components of my system that I recommend is a variable speed controller. This allows the pump to turn slowly when there isn’t much demand, like a single sink faucet, or faster as demand increases such as lawn sprinklers. My well service guy told me this greatly reduces wear on the pump and reduces energy use.

 

[Roadworthy]

A variable speed controller is a frequency varying switching power supply. The motor in the well is generally a three phase and quite smooth. The down side is the price of that controller. They are not readily repairable and I know of no source for rebuilt controllers. Since my old pump was still working well after twenty seven years I went with the standard single phase motor and controller again. I can replace my whole controller for about $300 to $350 for a Franklin. A similar switching power supply type controller could run ten times that. I doubt I'll live long enough to see another failure - other than the occasional capacitor swap in my controller.

 

[DieselBound]

I seem to recall that I dropped a Franklin pump into my well: I picked it up off of Craigslist for something like $100 (or maybe $150?). That was 8+ years ago. 1/2 hp 10gpm. Shallow well, so pulling a pump ain't a big deal for me.

Pump cycling is the biggest killer (well, there's lightening issues, but that's not a concern for me, here): I am not aware that VFD pumps have any special magic to counter torture from excessive cycling. Large pressure tanks are the way to reduce cycling (there's also the stop-cycle valve, though I am not familiar enough with those to comment on other than I'd contemplated one [couldn't justify because my water use is pretty low- my pump MAY run a total of 10 minutes per day, TOTAL).

I think I ran my pump for 24 hrs non-stop when I was finalizing the cleanout of my well (rehabing). Once spun up they can pretty much run forever: heat is the killer, and once water is flowing and continues to flow the pumps run cool.

 

[jigs_n_fixtures]

A variable speed controller is a frequency varying switching power supply. The motor in the well is generally a three phase and quite smooth. The down side is the price of that controller. They are not readily repairable and I know of no source for rebuilt controllers. Since my old pump was still working well after twenty seven years I went with the standard single phase motor and controller again. I can replace my whole controller for about $300 to $350 for a Franklin. A similar switching power supply type controller could run ten times that. I doubt I'll live long enough to see another failure - other than the occasional capacitor swap in my controller.

If you just put a new pump in, it is a good time to check how many ohms between the wires and write it down.

I think the Franklin installation manual shows how and has a place to write them down. It makes trouble shooting a little easier in the future. If you have an ammeter you should check and record the Amp draw also.

 

[jyoutz]

A variable speed controller is a frequency varying switching power supply. The motor in the well is generally a three phase and quite smooth. The down side is the price of that controller. They are not readily repairable and I know of no source for rebuilt controllers. Since my old pump was still working well after twenty seven years I went with the standard single phase motor and controller again. I can replace my whole controller for about $300 to $350 for a Franklin. A similar switching power supply type controller could run ten times that. I doubt I'll live long enough to see another failure - other than the occasional capacitor swap in my controller.

I think I paid $1500 for my controller about 6 years ago

 

[jigs_n_fixtures]

I don’t know the brand of my pump. My well pump is sitting at 680’. It’s a 1.5 hp, pumping 10 gpm. We put check valves on the pipe every 40’ so the pipe is charged at all times. One of the key components of my system that I recommend is a variable speed controller. This allows the pump to turn slowly when there isn’t much demand, like a single sink faucet, or faster as demand increases such as lawn sprinklers. My well service guy told me this greatly reduces wear on the pump and reduces energy use.

That is a bunch too many check valves. Every 140-ft is probably better. And every 200-ft would probably be even better.

The probability of failure of a mechanical system is an exponential function of the number of moving parts. So, you try to limit how many things that move you put in things.

The check valve are designed for 60 to 100-psi. 60-psi is 138-ft of water head.

We had a well pump on an irrigation system that was making a terrible noise for about five minutes and then it would go away for a bit and come back. The check valve installed 40-ft down, just above the pump and failed and the flapper had migrated up and gotten stuck in the pitiless adapter. As teh pump pushed water past it it made a terrible racket. Then stopped when the flow to the pump stopped. The pump would run until it filled the three pressure tanks, and shut off, the pressure tanks drained past the broken check valve and the pump would restart. And teh it stopped making noise. Because the water flowing backwards, spun the impellers of the shaft.

Had to pull and replace the pump, which is when we discovered he cause of he noise.

 

[workinonit]

Is it a 3" or 4" well? I always heard the Grunfos was the best pump for a 3" well. I had a 2HP, 3 wire Franklin that my contractor burned up for me and I replaced it with a 1.5 HP Franklin. I would never have a 3 wire pump again.

 

[jyoutz]

That is a bunch too many check valves. Every 140-ft is probably better. And every 200-ft would probably be even better.

The probability of failure of a mechanical system is an exponential function of the number of moving parts. So, you try to limit how many things that move you put in things.

The check valve are designed for 60 to 100-psi. 60-psi is 138-ft of water head.

We had a well pump on an irrigation system that was making a terrible noise for about five minutes and then it would go away for a bit and come back. The check valve installed 40-ft down, just above the pump and failed and the flapper had migrated up and gotten stuck in the pitiless adapter. As teh pump pushed water past it it made a terrible racket. Then stopped when the flow to the pump stopped. The pump would run until it filled the three pressure tanks, and shut off, the pressure tanks drained past the broken check valve and the pump would restart. And teh it stopped making noise. Because the water flowing backwards, spun the impellers of the shaft.

Had to pull and replace the pump, which is when we discovered he cause of he noise.

So far it is working well. When it stops, the well guy will need to come pull pipe. I can’t pull 680’

 

[etpm]

Is it a 3" or 4" well? I always heard the Grunfos was the best pump for a 3" well. I had a 2HP, 3 wire Franklin that my contractor burned up for me and I replaced it with a 1.5 HP Franklin. I would never have a 3 wire pump again.

Why not a 3 wire?

 

[etpm]

After reading about 2 wire vs 3 wire submersible well pumps I would still stick with my decision to put in a 3 wire pump. This is for a 1.5 HP or less motor. I originally made the decision to put in a 3 wire pump 20 some odd years ago for reasons detailed below. One reason was because a 2 wire pump would need to have the starting components down in the well casing.
Since the motors I am talking about are single phase motors they need some sort of phase shifting arrangement to get the motor spinning. There are several ways to do this. A starting winding can be used which is then switched out of the circuit once the motor is spinning at about 80% of operating speed. A starting winding plus a capacitor can also be used and once again is switched out of the circuit once the RPM is high enough. The added capacitor increases the starting torque. Another scheme is to use a capacitor that is always in circuit. But then the starting torque will be lower, maybe lower than running torque. No matter which way the single phase motor is started extra components that are part of the motor and pump assembly are down the hole and if they fail the whole assembly must be pulled up and replaced. These extra components are a switch and a capacitor. There may be just a switch, a switch and a capacitor, or just a capacitor.
A 3 wire motor operates exactly the same as a 2 wire motor. The only difference is that the phase switching components are above ground. This means that if they fail they can be replaced without pulling up and replacing the whole pump. The pump motor will still have a starting winding. But this winding is connected above ground to the easily serviced and dry starting components. I cannot imagine, for me, putting the starting components down the hole.
My control box is very simple. It has a contactor and a capacitor in it. The contactor is controlled by a pressure switch at the pressure tank. Because the box has plenty of room I have an extra contactor and capacitor in it. In sealed packages. So when the pump controller fails on a snowy holiday when we have a house full of overnight guests because a cap or contactor or both fails I have the replacements right there and "Ready To Be Proudly Displayed". Or at least installed if nobody wants to tramp out into the snow to keep me company while I brag about my foresight.
The upshot is that I still fail to understand why someone would prefer a 2 wire pump over a 3 wire pump.
Eric

 

[workinonit]

For me it's because the controls on the 3 wire are susceptible to failure and lightning hits that the 2 wire are not. I've replaced multiple control boxes due to failure but never a 2 wire pump.

 

[etpm]

For me it's because the controls on the 3 wire are susceptible to failure and lightning hits that the 2 wire are not. I've replaced multiple control boxes due to failure but never a 2 wire pump.

Wow, that really surprises me, that the 3 wire controls are that much more susceptible to failure. I just don't understand why, what would make them this way. I guess I can understand lightning strikes on a box just mounted out in the weather. But I don't understand what makes the 3 wire controls intrinsically that much more prone to failure. Can you explain?
Eric

 

[workinonit]

It's widely known among well contractors that the external electrical components don't last as long or are not as robust as the internal cvomponents. The reason I originally had a 3 wire pump is because it was a 2 HP. If your pump is going to be larger than 1.5 HP then a 3 wire is probably best and may be your only choice. Around here you don't even see anything 3 wire that is 1.5 HP and below. Most well heads are not the best environment to place such an enclosure. I never looked at the rating on mine but I doubt it was even a NEMA 4 enclosure.