Stuck PTO shaft

[JC-jetro]

Hello friends,
Again, one of my so called simple projects.
The thing that should have taken only 30 minutes again testing my patience.

Quick excerpt…. On my woods rotary cutter the front seal started to leak. I think the situation was stable as when it stopped leaking the vertical gear was fully submersed in oil and horizontal shaft gear partially but I had to fix it you know … ordered front seal and attempted to remove the Hex nut A to withdraw the old seal and replace while front hub was still attached to the gear box assembly. I removed the shear pin to allow removing the PTO shaft with no success. The splined horizontal shaft was solidly rusted/glued to the inners of the PTO shaft although it rotated freely but would not come out. After 30 minutes of struggle I removed the horizontal shaft hub and took home for further treatment as the pictures show. I have hung it for over 2 days and put lots of wd-40 on it, heated it, cooled it and beat the heck out of it to separate them with no luck. I also gave it a good Spanish inquisition style torture by puling the ends in opposite direction in a forceful manner to no avail and ended up busting my 4 ton come along . Through ought this endeavor I continuously soaked the splined shaft with WD-40(it appears it is soaking it in) and put a propane torch to it to see if I can budge it. I know I have to earn everything that I do but this is ridiculous .
Of course my patience is plenty and…. He don’t know me very well… do he?

Any how, appreciate any tricks one might have in his sleeves and willing to share.

Thanks,
JC
Woods Gear Box:


New Seal:


PTO. Shaft:


Keyed horizontal shaft and PTO shaft socket rotating freely to allow shear pin installation.

 

[GreenWannabe]

Many posters on here have suggested using wax, either candle wax or parafin (sp) canning wax. Heat the joint enough to melt some wax and wait a while, it should come apart. One poster even said he keeps some candles in his toolbox. Good luck.

 

[em14]

I have had good results with PB Blaster which you can get at the Tractor Supply Store .... I don't have much with WD 40.
Leo

 

[bucmeister]

Couple of questions.

Is the input shaft splined or smooth? Reason I ask is because of the shear bolt looking appearance of the setup.

If it is smooth, which I think it must be since you mentioned it will spin on the shaft fine, just won't come off, then I must ask if you have removed the spring steel keeper ring?

I have a Woods RM990 cutter with the smooth shaft/shear bolt setup and there is a retainer ring at the very end of the shaft to retain the yoke after the bolt shears, otherwise it would potentially come flying off with when the bolt shears because there would nothing left to hold it together. I did not see in your post where you mentioned removing it. If there is one there just push the yoke toward the gear end until you can get the ring worked out.

On Edit: Just read where you did state it was splined.

 

[BTDT]

I think I would break apart the u-joint, and either press shaft out of coupling, or support it from the coupling end (let gear & housing end hang) and pound it out from the hole where crowbar is. Put something underneath to cushion the fall when it breaks loose.

 

[JerryG]

Take it to a shop with a hydraulic press. They may break it, but you could also. That is what I would do anyway.

 

[CATMAN]

bucmeister has it, I believe. I also noticed that internal snap-ring that would hold that PTO shaft into the gearbox pinion assembly in the event that a shear pin broke. I bet if you remove it(internal snap-ring), and then the yellow shaft comes off, you will probably find setscrews holding the "key" into the keyway, then that item should come off.

 

[JC-jetro]

Couple of questions.

Is the input shaft splined or smooth? Reason I ask is because of the shear bolt looking appearance of the setup.

If it is smooth, which I think it must be since you mentioned it will spin on the shaft fine, just won't come off, then I must ask if you have removed the spring steel keeper ring?

I have a Woods RM990 cutter with the smooth shaft/shear bolt setup and there is a retainer ring at the very end of the shaft to retain the yoke after the bolt shears, otherwise it would potentially come flying off with when the bolt shears because there would nothing left to hold it together. I did not see in your post where you mentioned removing it. If there is one there just push the yoke toward the gear end until you can get the ring worked out.

On Edit: Just read where you did state it was splined.

Bucmeister ... you're the man

I expected to see the a snap ring when I took the PTO off. I just could not see a break like a snap ring so then I though the lip is cast or welded in the hub. When you mentioned it I went outside and looked real close but still could not see an opening to get it out. Going back and forth I was able to get the ring out and it was concentric spring loaded ring..

Thanks a bunch it took me 15 minutes to get it loose, now the problem is I still have to completely remove the nut to install the new oil seal. upon further inspection I found that gear shaft is perfectly stuck to the round inner PTO shaft and have to use a hyd press to press the shaft out.

I have not had a chance to read every one's response but thanks everyone. This is what makes this forum great.

 

[JC-jetro]

I think I would break apart the u-joint, and either press shaft out of coupling, or support it from the coupling end (let gear & housing end hang) and pound it out from the hole where crowbar is. Put something underneath to cushion the fall when it breaks loose.

I took the snap ring on one side to take the U-joints but changed mind as I though it would be difficult to put in a hyd press the guys have at work. mounting would be hard. I still have to press the shaft out but this time it should be easier.

Thanks

JC

 

[JerryG]

The sleeve has a snap ring on the inside toward the gear box. I didn't think about it being a shear pin model.
Edit: looks like it took me to long to get a picture loaded.

 

[bucmeister]

Glad it came apart for you! Now that I see it apart it is built in a way I have never seen before, must be a high horsepower version.

 

[gemini5362]

I have had good results with PB Blaster which you can get at the Tractor Supply Store .... I don't have much with WD 40.
Leo

For someone that does not have a tractor supply store near them you can also get PB Blaster at Walmart. I use it quite often and it works very well on rusted nuts and parts.

 

[JC-jetro]

Thanks all for all the good comments. I'll try tomorrow and use a hydraulic balance remover to see if I can push gear shaft out of the round hub as long as I can grab the edges of the hub on 3 side. If that does not work , then I'll take the piece to work. We do have a maintenance shop with a hydraulic press. I have earned enough respect with our technicians that they actually made an official plaque for me as " Honorary Grunt" . They would not mind me messing around with their press. I will try to push the gear shaft out. It is a matter of time now and one way or another I'll get it done. Will post an update later.


Again, Thanks for the good inputs...

JC

 

[JC-jetro]

The sleeve has a snap ring on the inside toward the gear box. I didn't think about it being a shear pin model.
Edit: looks like it took me to long to get a picture loaded.

Jerry, It is exactly how is shown in your pic. The problem I had was the type of spring loaded concentric snap ring they used. I could not use any snap ring compression hand tool, had to bend the tip on a small screwdriver to kind of gouge it out of there. Not very convinient at all but quite stout. it appears all the early pulling and pushing and beating did not phase it at all and the ring looks in good shape. Thanks for your inpuut.

JC

 

[JC-jetro]

Just an update. Last night I destroyed a puller to take the splined collar off of the PTO shaft. No go .. and nothing budged. Brought it to work this am and realized can not properly mount it in our press to push the shaft out. Went to plan B and used the most heavy duty puller that we had, biggest vise that we had and a 2 foot beefy crescent wrench along with the help of one of the guys attempted to separate the part. It was an struggle and suddenly she let go with a bang. Scared us bad . We continued to finish the job and she fought us all the way to end but mind over power prevailed . What I also noticed that the original seal did not have the compression spring in it and seemed a bit soft. The replacement seal that I got seems quite better. I'll clean it up and put the seal and will install it this weekend. Hopefully she will not leak again for a while.

JC

 

[MJPetersen]

Good job!! Success is sweet is it not? When you put it back together, what I would do if it were mine, is to clean the shaft up very well and give it a coating of "never seize" before mounting the key and collar. May you never have to take it apart again.

Mike

 

[JerryG]

Jerry, It is exactly how is shown in your pic. The problem I had was the type of spring loaded concentric snap ring they used. I could not use any snap ring compression hand tool, had to bend the tip on a small screwdriver to kind of gouge it out of there. Not very convinient at all but quite stout. it appears all the early pulling and pushing and beating did not phase it at all and the ring looks in good shape. Thanks for your inpuut.

JC

Glad it helped. That type of ring is always a real pain. One thing for sure, the way things are designed on this model of Woods mower, nothing is going to come off by it's self. I have the same mower but with a slip clutch and have put it through heck and never tore up anything on it.

 

[JerryG]

Good job!! Success is sweet is it not? When you put it back together, what I would do if it were mine, is to clean the shaft up very well and give it a coating of "never seize" before mounting the key and collar. May you never have to take it apart again.

Mike

Put the never seize on the blade pins also. If you don't they won't come out. I know from experience.

 

[JC-jetro]

May you never have to take it apart again.

Mike

Amen to that Mike.. Spit... spit It is a yiddish expression I learned from "Fiddler on the Roof"


jerry and mike,

I will put the " never seize" on the shaft after I cleaned the PTO shaft and collar before I put it back together. On some model the big nut has a set screw to keep the nut from coming loose. I don't have that on mine, but manual recommends putting couple of drops of loctite on the threads. I'm planning to do it. Any concern with that?

JC,

 

[MJPetersen]

No I would loctite the nut and never seize the shaft!! But I still hope for your sake that you do not have to dismantle it again. Put the nut and the loctite on first--otherwise you will get the never "sneeze" on the nut and the loctite will not avail.

Mike