Steiner 420 vs PT 425

[yooperdave]

I learned that I have a Steiner dealer in my own backyard.

He wants to sell me a 2004 demo Steiner 420 (now a 430 for 2005) for about the same price as a PT 425. I can then rent the occasional use items from him as needed to keep my storage and capital costs lower.

He will deliver for free, and will not chage me sales tax because of farm use. I also get a warranty, and local dealer support.

Does anybody know how a Steiner 420 compares to a PT 425?

I know the Steiner loader does not have as much capacity, but it does lift higher.

http://www.steinerturf.com/products/tractors/430_max/

Thanks

Yooper Dave

 

[Gravy]

One possible issue is owner serviceability. The simplicity of a PT is well known. The Steiners I've seen are not built to be easy to work on. I know a mechanic at a country club who uses very colorful language about working on their several year old Steiners.

OTOH, if you're not that concerned about ease of repair, the same mechanic says they work very well as mowers.

Gravy

 

[johara1]

i didn't think they made the 420 any more? what engine does it have? the 420 has the same 2 speed rear end as the 430 only they don't tell you about it. they will out climb a pt. and their mower is better. i would get that little bucket that goes on the lift arms. the loader is a lot of money with very little return. they make them up your way now,check it out,they are a class act!! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[pequeajim]

I believe Steiner has been making the 430 now for many years. This is not a new model. I don't know about a 420? Jack (on TBN) could answer any question about Steiner as he has had several over the years.

I would question your dealer's knowlege of Steiner products if he says that they are replacing a 420 with a new 430 model in 2005, this is wrong.

If you do a search on the garden tractor forum, Bob has a very long thread that talks about the difference (for him) between a 425 and a Steiner/Ventrac.

Basically, in this size range, the 425 is way more versatile with more FEL type capability and the Steiner/Ventrac mows better on slopes.

I do not believe that they are both in the same price range? I think you're talking 9.5K for a PT and 15K for a 430 Max with the 25 HP engine, and around the same for a 25HP Ventrac 4100.

If you live on flat land and very mild slopes, then the decision is a no brainer, go PT, you can do more and you get way more for the money.

If you mow on steep slopes and generally just want to cut grass and have more money to spend, then go Ventrac. The mower setup is better than PT and it is a better tractor than Steiner. You might even look at the Ventrac 3000 which is cheaper than the 4100 and 430.

I sold my Ventrac 4200 31HP gas used with a slip scoop, 60" deck and duals and bought a:

PT 425
Big bucket
4 in 1 bucket
Mini hoe
60" mower
Potato digger
Stump grinder
Pallet Forks
Snow plow with rubber lip
Extra mounting plate

All for the same money to me... I mow on some steep slopes (only a few), and my yard is on the side of a mountain. I wanted the FEL capability and simplicity of the PT, but I can not knock the Ventrac for how well it cuts grass. The guy who bought my 4200 mows on some very steep slopes and is very happy with the Ventrac. He already has a skid steer, so he had no need for a PT.

Wait long enough and I think Bob or Jack will chime in and add some useful comments. They both have Ventrac tractors and are good sources of information.

Good luck!

 

[JackIL]

Chime, chime....

The Steiner 430 was put in the Steiner Price Pages dated April 11, 1997. At that time it officially replaced the 420 although, of course, there could have been some unsold 420s still around. However, it is unlikely that a 420 was still around long enough to be called a 2004 demo unit.

Most of the essential distinctions between the PT425 and comparably powered Steiner or Ventrac tractor have been covered by others. One that has not been covered is that PT425 does not have a Weight Transfer system. The Steiner can be equipped with one for use with all of the mower decks and the Ventrac 4200 series has it built in (on the 4100 it is an option.) Weight Transfer provides for substantially increased steering security and traction when operating on steep slopes. Another major difference is that the PT425 cannot be equipped with dual wheels whereas the Steiner and Ventrac units can be. Again these are primarily used when mowing on steep slopes and provide for safe operations on slopes up to 30 degrees.

It is a common practice for Steiner and Ventrac dealers to rent attachments to their customers. So as you point out, you don't have to purchase or store those items that you only have occasional need for.

Power Trac, Steiner, and Ventrac all provide great versatility and ease in switching from one attachment to another. Power Trac has more loader lift capacity, but the lift height is about the same for all 3. I had a Steiner loader at one time and found the lift capacity to be somewhat limited. However, I find the new Ventrac loader with an advertised 500 pound lift capacity to be very adequate for my needs--it is essentially the same as the Kubota BX, John Deere 2210, and Massy sub-compact tractors.

Clearly the purchase price of Steiner and Ventrac are higher than Power Trac since there is no dealer organization involved with PT.

JackIL

 

[pequeajim]

Jack, you're a plethora of knowledge....

Plethora... did I say plethora? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[johara1]

i think steiner made two different 420s the old one that was replaced by the 430 max, and a new one that had a 20 hp. linamar engine thats made in Canada.it wasn't as fancy a bare bones thing but it had the same transaxles and only one engine, this was replaced by the 415 that has a kohler 23 hp. engine.

 

[yooperdave]

I may have to make a phone call to make sure of the model number. He marked up the 430 max page of the brochure with the price of $8,995. His prices for attachments were significantly lower than list also.

The loader only has a travel weight capacity of 200#. I might not be getting enough capacity.

Yooper Dave

 

[FOURTEEN]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Does anybody know how a Steiner 420 compares to a PT 425?)</font>


<font color="red"> The Steiner would be a great tractor to have, if the PT-425 had never been invented!! /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif </font>

 

[pequeajim]

I would check that price out to be sure. If you could get a brand new 430 Max for that price with a boofy engine in it for that price, I would think it is a pretty good deal!

You could probably sell it and make some money!

I would have guessed that a 430 Max would go for something in the 12-15k range.

If you are dead set of a Steiner/Ventrac, I would get the Ventrac. It is a better tractor.

 

[SnowRidge]

<font color="blue"> If you are dead set of a Steiner/Ventrac, I would get the Ventrac. It is a better tractor. </font>

I looked at the Ventracs at the National Farm Machinery Show in Louisville. They looked like nice machines. The one I examined had two hydrostatic transaxles which were belt driven from a Kawasaki engine. I think it would be somewhat more fuel efficient than a PT with that setup (much less hydraulic hose to generate power loss).

 

[JackIL]

A little clarification about the construction of Steiner and Ventrac power trains. The engine shaft drives a hydro pump on one end and has a belt pulley that drives the front PTO on the other end of the crankshaft. The hydro pump powers one hydraulic motor on the front transaxle and another motor on the rear transaxle.

JackIL

 

[johara1]

we will see in about 20 years............ /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

[SnowRidge]

<font color="blue">A little clarification about the construction of Steiner and Ventrac power trains. The engine shaft drives a hydro pump on one end and has a belt pulley that drives the front PTO on the other end of the crankshaft. The hydro pump powers one hydraulic motor on the front transaxle and another motor on the rear transaxle. </font>

I think the Ventracs have two different systems, depending on which model we are discussing. I only looked at the Ventrac 3000 at the National Farm Machinery Show, and it looked like it had drive belts going to both transaxles. I asked the factory rep about the drive, and that is what he told me too.

I just looked at the literature that I brought back. Ventrac calls the drive systems AWD (All Wheel Drive), except on the 3000 model which they label AWD TDT (Tandem Drive Train).

Bob Skurka has a Ventrac 3000. He posted this pic saying, "Here is a picture of the tractor bent in a hard turn, you can see the belts that drive the hydrostatic drive system." Note the plural term belts.

Perahps Bob will chime in and confirm or deny my "two belt theory." /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[Tractors4u]

I don't have either machine so take it how ever you want. If you ever want to buy attachments the PT looks to be less expensive. The PT comes with a loader, or at least the loader arms, Steiner want $3500 for a loader. The Steiner auger is over $5000! Ouch. Of course you said you could rent, but renting can be inconvenient at times.

 

[BobRip]

With a lot of products the supplier has to compete on the initial purchase prices. Once you buy the product then they do not have to compete on the attachments. Computer printers are like this. The printers are sometime dirt cheap, but the ink cartridges are expensive. When you price a tractor add in all of the attachments that you would probably buy and compare the two tractors like that. Of course there are other factors than just price.
Me, I like to own the attachments. Also 200 lb. lift capacity sounds like a wheel barrow and not a tractor.

Bob Rip

 

[JackIL]

You are right. My comments about the power train were specifically about the Ventrac 4000 series tractors. The 3000 is entirely different.

JackIL

 

[pequeajim]

yooperdave:

I think you probably have enough information about the machines by reading this thread and also Bob's threads where he has posted comparisons.

Here's one about the 3000 click here

Comparison of Steiner to Ventrac

A nice informative thread on the 422 vs Ventrac

Finally, check out MossRoad's site on the 435. It gives you an excellent overview (with videos) of the PT capabilities. It helped me a lot! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

MossRoad's Site

It seems that your issue is what you want to spend? You might want to answer a few questions:

How much FEL work do you think you want to do?
Do you mow on steep slopes
What size HP engine are you looking for?
Gas or diesel?
Do you want a lot of attachments and have the money to spend for the more pricey items?
Can you service it yourself, (are you a handy guy)?
Finally, what is your budget?

This might help with the decision.

One thing is for sure. You will find a lot of helpful people on here no matter what tractor you buy.

 

[FOURTEEN]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( 200 lb. lift capacity sounds like a wheel barrow and not a tractor.)</font>

<font color="red"> And a very expensive wheel barrow at that!!

</font>