Starting a tractor in extreme cold temperatures

[the old grind]

If temp is above freezing and wind chill is -20F water still won't freeze. WC only affects what's already warmer than ambient temps, but believe what you want to.

Convection to circulate coolant through both engine and block requires that the thermostat is open. Either type heater warms coolant in whichever it's installed in, not both unless it is, but believe what you want to.

 

[Russ5160]

I live just outside of Ottawa, Ontario. We've just gone thru a bunch of nights with temps down to -25 to -30C plus wind chill. I do keep my TN-75 in a unheated building, but it does have a block heater with a Wi-Fi plug. I generally turn it on two to three hours before I need it. A reasonably new battery, with low 5W synthetic oil. Very seldom use the glow plug, and haven't had any issues. I also let it sit and idle after a start to hopefully get the hydraulics a little warmer. The viscosity of the fluid in the lines has me more concerned with either blowing seals or other problems. I run a front end loader with bucket, and a 7-foot snowblower on the back. This is the first year in almost 15 that I put the blower on in January.

Try removing the air filter cover. Take a propane torch and lite it. Turn the engine over and while engine is turning over, put the torch around the intake. Sucking in warmer air with help starting.

 

[Slowpoke Slim]

Try removing the air filter cover. Take a propane torch and lite it. Turn the engine over and while engine is turning over, put the torch around the intake. Sucking in warmer air with help starting.

Good Lord.

Don't do this. Ever.

He said he has no problems starting his engine (twinotterpilot). Why on earth would you have him set his tractor on fire?!

 

[Slowpoke Slim]

Doesn’t a block heater, and a coolant heater in the lower radiator hose do the same thing. They both heat the coolant which flows through the system by convection. Big difference I think is block heaters tend to be higher watts.

No.

Not even close. The "heater" that you install in your lower radiator hose will NOT circulate ANY coolant. It is a closed system. There is no circulation until you start the engine and the water pump starts circulating coolant through the system.

A block heater heats the coolant that's sitting stationary in the block. That warms the block. That is what you're after. A warm engine block, and some of that heat does transfer to the cylinder head through the castings.

A radiator hose heater only heats the coolant that is sitting stationary inside the rubber radiator hose. The only way to circulate that warm coolant is to crank the engine, which will circulate the warm coolant a little bit (depending on if or how much "bypass" is plumbed into your coolant system, because remember, your thermostat is CLOSED, so only the small bypass passage (if you have one) will flow any coolant at the far end of the cooling system). So the warm coolant in the hose is replaced with -35 F coolant that came out of the radiator in about 5 seconds and you stop cranking and start the whole process over again of heating the cold coolant sitting in the hose again.

Not quite "worthless" but close enough to it to call it so.

Remember, there is NO "flowing" coolant unless the engine is running, or cranking, to rotate the water pump at the front of the engine.

 

[pmsmechanic]

No.

Not even close. The "heater" that you install in your lower radiator hose will NOT circulate ANY coolant. It is a closed system. There is no circulation until you start the engine and the water pump starts circulating coolant through the system.

A block heater heats the coolant that's sitting stationary in the block. That warms the block. That is what you're after. A warm engine block, and some of that heat does transfer to the cylinder head through the castings.

A radiator hose heater only heats the coolant that is sitting stationary inside the rubber radiator hose. The only way to circulate that warm coolant is to crank the engine, which will circulate the warm coolant a little bit (depending on if or how much "bypass" is plumbed into your coolant system, because remember, your thermostat is CLOSED, so only the small bypass passage (if you have one) will flow any coolant at the far end of the cooling system). So the warm coolant in the hose is replaced with -35 F coolant that came out of the radiator in about 5 seconds and you stop cranking and start the whole process over again of heating the cold coolant sitting in the hose again.

Not quite "worthless" but close enough to it to call it so.

Remember, there is NO "flowing" coolant unless the engine is running, or cranking, to rotate the water pump at the front of the engine.

I wonder how the early John Deere 2 cylinder tractors ( A.B.H.M) cooled then with no water pump?

 

[Russ5160]

Good Lord.

Don't do this. Ever.

He said he has no problems starting his engine (twinotterpilot). Why on earth would you have him set his tractor on fire?!

We have done this many times. It doesn’t start any thing on fire. You don’t stuff it inside, you put it near the intake.

 

[JWR]

We have done this many times. It doesn’t start any thing on fire. You don’t stuff it inside, you put it near the intake.

I'd not worry about the fire aspects at all. It's the very fine wispy debris side products, not flame. I see no reason to take the risk of ingesting debris into that intake and risks to the turbocharger. There are a lot of ways to warm up air going in the intake that are 100% safe and can't feed in particles of fine debris. Like a hair dryer.

 

[ras5309]

Sounds to me like you have a problem in the glow plug system or your fuel is gelling and not flowing well enough to start. Have you tried any anti-gel additives?

 

[JWR]

No.

Not even close. The "heater" that you install in your lower radiator hose will NOT circulate ANY coolant. It is a closed system.

A block heater heats the coolant that's sitting stationary in the block. That warms the block. That is what you're after. A warm engine block, and some of that heat does transfer to the cylinder head through the castings.

A radiator hose heater only heats the coolant that is sitting stationary inside the rubber radiator hose. The only way to circulate that warm coolant is to crank the engine, [not true] which will circulate the warm coolant a little bit (depending on if or how much "bypass" is plumbed into your coolant system, because remember, your thermostat is CLOSED, so only the small bypass passage (if you have one) will flow any coolant at the far end of the cooling system). So the warm coolant in the hose is replaced with -35 F coolant that came out of the radiator in about 5 seconds and you stop cranking and start the whole process over again of heating the cold coolant sitting in the hose again.

Not quite "worthless" but close enough to it to call it so.

Remember, there is NO "flowing" coolant unless the engine is running, or cranking, to rotate the water pump at the front of the engine. [False.]

Disagree Slim. With all due respect, you are wrong. In-line coolant engine heaters in fact DO circulate coolant. What ever made you think they don't ? The ones I have owned have an internal check valve arrangement. When the coil heats a quantity of coolant in the cannister it burps out a burst of hot coolant under some pressure and ingests the next batch for heating. This process can be heard and felt. That is why there is a flow arrow on the units of course. The net effect is that they absolutely DO move coolant and the warmer it gets the faster the process. If you watch the system, the hoses all get warm with the output from the heater being the hottest of course. In my experience the 1000w or 1200w units work very well. Very well matched to your typical 120v homeowner circuits. I had never heard of weak ones of only 300w until reading this thread.

Rather obviously they would not be selling the things by the hundreds of thousands over the years otherwise. I bought my first one in 1979 and they had been on the market for years before that. [Mine was from Sears and Roebuck, remember them?]

And by the way, the freeze plug substitute "block heater" type does not have any means to move coolant other than slow convection. That convection has little chance of reaching the heads where it is most needed for starting, though if you leave it on long enough the warming process does work. The advantage of the in-line radiator hose installation is that the heads and entire system get warmed via the liquid flow in the coolant passages.

 

[RancherGuy]

So for two weekends in a row, I was unable to start the tractor with temperature around -35C. Had to wait for the temperature to be a 'mild' -20C for it to start.

I have a 300W heater on the cooling line and installed last weekend a battery tender. The heater is turned on for about two to three hours prior to the attempts at starting it. The tender stays 24/7.

What's the trick to start a diesel engine in such extreme temperatures?

In 1983 I worked a summer and fall in Prudhoe Bay. I left with daytime temps of -24C. For site operations, they had to ensure that pickups, trucks and all vehicles were operable every day. In the parking lots they had a high railing protected by a curb where the vehicles could park with the grill up near the railing. On the railing hung heavy electrical cords that dangled just above the ground. As I recall, once temps were below freezing at night, the drivers were instructed to plug their vehicle in, which supplied juice to engine block heaters. Once the temps dropped even further, the drivers were instructed to plug in and leave their vehicles idling - all night and day to keep them warm. The Maintenance department had a heated building for their stuff. That's how they dealt with extreme temps that might be as low as -70C in February.

For your situation, one issue that was barely touched was the fuel. I believe that typical diesel will gel at the temp you mention, so even if the engine is warm, the fuel might be too thick.

Winterized diesel (or have I heard to use kerosene?), low viscosity [synthetic] engine oil, block heater, building or protecting vehicle cover, good battery -- and you should have consistent success. Be sure to let it warm for a several minutes before operating.