RobertBrown
Veteran Member
As long as you have another way to get to the parts store......
Starter going bad in Ranger
- Thread starter clemsonfor
- Start date
- Views: 4916
Bird
Rest in Peace
The last starter I had anything to do with was several years ago and was on my brother's Suzuki Sidekick. Since it didn't do anything when you turned the key, he crawled under it and found it was getting power to the starter, but to no effect. So we pulled it into the my shop building where I had a concrete floor, jack stands, creeper, and all the necessary tools. We were just going to pull the starter and take it to town to be sure we got the right new one. But out of curiosity, we took the starter apart, cleaned it up, re-assembled it, put power to it on the workbench and it worked just fine. Just put it back on and didn't have to buy anything.
But way back about 1978 or so, I had to replace the starter on our 1970 Oldsmobile 88 (350 cu. in. engine) and I seriously strained my right arm lying on my back and pulling so hard on a wrench to loosen a bolt. I did finish the job, but then that was when I went and bought my first pneumatic half inch impact wrench, because I didn't want to ever do that again.:laughing:
But way back about 1978 or so, I had to replace the starter on our 1970 Oldsmobile 88 (350 cu. in. engine) and I seriously strained my right arm lying on my back and pulling so hard on a wrench to loosen a bolt. I did finish the job, but then that was when I went and bought my first pneumatic half inch impact wrench, because I didn't want to ever do that again.:laughing:
OP
clemsonfor
Super Member
The ranger still cranked if i only had it as a vehicle to use. It just may take 3-4 attempts. But thats not a problem for me, i have 2 other vehicles at this house alone. My 4th vehicle is at the farm so its not a use right now (3hrs away).
OP
clemsonfor
Super Member
Well on Saturday i got my replacement while in town. Went to throw it on after another project. And when i went to put it in place and put on the bolts i realized the replacement has 2 bolt holes and not 3? Go back online, the pic shows 3(my starter has the correct model # on it just wrong housing), call the store, they said well we dont have it on the shelf, i said thats because i have it here in my hand!! Call the other store, i think its rebuilt wrong. She calls the other store, "yep they have one" is it 3 bolt holes, "you know what, i forgot to ask that" :confused2:. Im thinking thats what this whole converstation is about!!! So anyway the one at the other store has 3 bolt holes like my original.
It will be till wendsday afternoon till i go back to town, i will pick it up then.
Its not going anywhere now anyway, i finialy got ambitious and went to replace the radius arm bushings. Got the crossmember off but right now i gave up with one arm out of it aand the other still in it and the cross member kind of wedged in there. I think some beating,prying etc are in store to get them out.
It will be till wendsday afternoon till i go back to town, i will pick it up then.
Its not going anywhere now anyway, i finialy got ambitious and went to replace the radius arm bushings. Got the crossmember off but right now i gave up with one arm out of it aand the other still in it and the cross member kind of wedged in there. I think some beating,prying etc are in store to get them out.
Soundguy
Old Timer
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- Mar 11, 2002
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- RK 55HC,ym1700, NH7610S, Ford 8N, 2N, NAA, 660, 850 x2, 541, 950, 941D, 951, 2000, 3000, 4000, 4600, 5000, 740, IH 'C' 'H', CUB, John Deere 'B', allis 'G', case VAC
gotta love the different / wrong parts hunts.. 
Diamondpilot
Super Star Member
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- Jinma 254/284 Ford 861 Powermaster at work
I am going though the same thing with a friends starter. They make a short and long version. The difference is pinion throw. One throws 1.5" and the other 2.25" Of course we got the wrong one.
Chris
Chris
OP
clemsonfor
Super Member
DP this problem is strictly rebuilder ERROR. Not parts house not mine. The listing for my truck only shows one. The starter i have from the store has the correct model number on it, BUT the housing is only 2 eared or 2 mounting bolts, not the three that mine is. I know its wrong and a rebuilder error cause a call to the other store in town pulled the part and it has 3 bolt holes.
LD1
Epic Contributor
Well, I am a bit late to the thread cause it looks like you got a handle on it. And I do agree with others that for $35, it isnt worth trying to fix, even after the parts mis-hap.
My only real comment is about the solenoid vs relay that was brought up somewhere around page 2. People do often use them interchangebally but that is incorrect.
Relay: just an electric switch that is controlled by electric. It has a primary (control) side that is low current and can be ran with smaller wire to the main switch. These are usually terminals 85 and 86 (if I remember correctly) The secondary side is higher current. Usually terminals 30 and 87 for normally closed relay and 30 and 87a for normally open (if you have a 5 post relay). Those terminals are for the "ice-cube" type relays found in the fuse box. The larger ones like discussed for the ford starter....it is pretty obvious which ones are the high current ones. And sometimes there is only one small terminal. This would be because it relys on the chassie where you mount it for ground. These types cannot be mounted on a plastic part of the vehichle. The reason for relays is that all of your interior switches like lights, windshield wipers, horn, etc would have to be made MUCH more robust to handle the current that would be required if wired direct. That would make the already massive wiring harness going through the firewall that much bigger. With an underhood relay, they can use smaller switches and wires to control the relay which acts as a switching unit for the higher amperage load. This also keeps the runs shorter and voltage drops less. Cause you have to remember, we are dealing with 12v system here, so the amperage is already much higher than if the same power componet were used with 120v, and with teh lower voltage, voltage drop is even more important.
Solenoid: Works in the same way as a relay, but instead of the primary controlling a secondary circuit (switch), the solenoids coil is tied to a mechanical device like a plunger or something. So a solenoid actually does mechanical work. Examples like controlling the starter bendix= solenoid. Controlling the power lock mechanism = solenoid. Snowplow valves = solenoids. Electric trunk unlatcher = solenoid.
So basically, relay = electric switch
...................solenoid = does mechanical work.
Sorry for being long winded, but maybe this will help someone somewhere down the line.
My only real comment is about the solenoid vs relay that was brought up somewhere around page 2. People do often use them interchangebally but that is incorrect.
Relay: just an electric switch that is controlled by electric. It has a primary (control) side that is low current and can be ran with smaller wire to the main switch. These are usually terminals 85 and 86 (if I remember correctly) The secondary side is higher current. Usually terminals 30 and 87 for normally closed relay and 30 and 87a for normally open (if you have a 5 post relay). Those terminals are for the "ice-cube" type relays found in the fuse box. The larger ones like discussed for the ford starter....it is pretty obvious which ones are the high current ones. And sometimes there is only one small terminal. This would be because it relys on the chassie where you mount it for ground. These types cannot be mounted on a plastic part of the vehichle. The reason for relays is that all of your interior switches like lights, windshield wipers, horn, etc would have to be made MUCH more robust to handle the current that would be required if wired direct. That would make the already massive wiring harness going through the firewall that much bigger. With an underhood relay, they can use smaller switches and wires to control the relay which acts as a switching unit for the higher amperage load. This also keeps the runs shorter and voltage drops less. Cause you have to remember, we are dealing with 12v system here, so the amperage is already much higher than if the same power componet were used with 120v, and with teh lower voltage, voltage drop is even more important.
Solenoid: Works in the same way as a relay, but instead of the primary controlling a secondary circuit (switch), the solenoids coil is tied to a mechanical device like a plunger or something. So a solenoid actually does mechanical work. Examples like controlling the starter bendix= solenoid. Controlling the power lock mechanism = solenoid. Snowplow valves = solenoids. Electric trunk unlatcher = solenoid.
So basically, relay = electric switch
...................solenoid = does mechanical work.
Sorry for being long winded, but maybe this will help someone somewhere down the line.
OP
clemsonfor
Super Member
OK, so the starter still is not in (will pick it up tomorrow), but the Radius arm bushings are. Finially realized that i had to take the shocks off to get enough swing to get the arms out of the bracket. replaced bushing and just snugged it up. Have to go get bolts to replace the rivets that i had to grind off to get the crossmenber out. But in doing this i found the upper spring retainer on pass side is broken allowing the axle to droop more, which is how i discovered the problem. Once back togeather will not be a problem as shock limits downward travel and radius arm stops front to back movement, but i still will figure something out to weld in there to hold it in. But the pass side shock mount broke the bolt. So now i have to firgure out what to do to fix that. A friend gave me the shock mount from an old chevy or something. It has the shoulder on it i need and i think i will grind whats left of the stud off and then bolt it to the radius arm in place. Problem with this fix is it will put the lower end of the shock 3/4" or so closer to the tire. I am concerned that it will rub. I have to today when i get home look at it and see if it looks like the extra distance out will hit the tire on a full right turn. It it looks to close (also a problem i have a few sizes larger tire on it to take up extra room already) i will cut a bolt off and weld it onto the stud thats left on the vehicle and call it good!.
I swear working on old stuff you go to fix one problem and it leads to 2 or 3 more!
Starter job turning into radius arm bushings that i have been putting off for close to a year. Now the shock stuff!
I swear working on old stuff you go to fix one problem and it leads to 2 or 3 more!
Starter job turning into radius arm bushings that i have been putting off for close to a year. Now the shock stuff!
Soundguy
Old Timer
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2002
- Messages
- 51,575
- Location
- Central florida
- Tractor
- RK 55HC,ym1700, NH7610S, Ford 8N, 2N, NAA, 660, 850 x2, 541, 950, 941D, 951, 2000, 3000, 4000, 4600, 5000, 740, IH 'C' 'H', CUB, John Deere 'B', allis 'G', case VAC
ever go to change the oil on a tractor and then 3m later you have restored it.
it happens..
it happens..