SPLITTING A TS254c

[grsr3]

I tried continuing a previous thread entitled "throw out bearing seized???", but did not get much response. So I started this new thread. I am hoping there is someone out there that has more detailed info on how to do this without wasting time on taking apart unnecessary stuff. "Lakespirit" has done this but his notes are more about adjusting the clutch once you get to it. Right now I need to know the best way to actually separate the two halves. There a number of connections above the bell housing just below the dash cover that need to be separated before the front and back can be split . It's basically a matter of knowing which end of a line, or shaft, or bracket, is the easiest to disconnect. Sometimes after struggling for hours getting something apart you realize it would have been a helluva lot easier to have done it from the other side----I'm sure you know what I mean. It's all about being there before, otherwise known as "experience". Any and all suggestions are welcome.
George

 

[RonMar]

Have you seen this article, service advisory 10, second one down on this page on the tractor outlet maintenance pages?
Jinma Service Bulletin 3

 

[greg_g]

Have you seen this article, service advisory 10, second one down on this page on the tractor outlet maintenance pages?
Jinma Service Bulletin 3

That's a Jinma article Ron, it will only get a TaiShan owner confused. I split mine last fall (clutchpack/TOB & seat/pilot bearing), and offered George a few tips in his previous thread. Perhaps he missed them.

//greg//

 

[grsr3]

pics with questions.

 

[greg_g]

I split a TS354, which is basically your tractor plus one cylinder. So based upon my experience:
1. Steering box in the way? No. You don't even have to touch it. As I stated before, disconnect the steering hardlines at the pump. They'll come away as you carefully roll the back half away from the front half.
2.Linkage and "sightglass" come out? No. Just disconnect the linkage at the governor. The sediment bowl will move with the fuel tank.
3a. Remove tank bracket? "L" bracket? No,neither. But remove the smaller bracket that's between the L" and the housing.
3b. Upper bellhousing bolts? They're in fact accessible. Close quarters, but accessible. I do recommend however that they be the first two removed, and last two replaced.
4. Front drive shaft: that's one of many reasons why I don't recommend that Jinma guidance; the TaiShan doesn't use the same parts, isn't put together the same way. Remove the square driveshaft housing, then you'll see the rear collar. Drive out the roll pin, slide the collar forward, the shaft will then seperate from the transfer case output shaft. There are no ball bearing to worry about.
5. Front end of front shaft? Leave it alone. It stays with the front end.
6. Mystery wire: can't tell from the picture, and my tractor's not here right now. But if you have the cluster gauge, there won't be a separate hour meter wire. If you DO have a separate hour gauge, that wire belong on the OPSU (oil pressure triggers hour meter on earlier models equipped with individual gauges).
7. Steering box and lines? George - again. Leave the steering box alone, disconnect the lines at the pump.
8. "L" bracket? See above
9. Rear of front shaft? See above

//greg//

 

[grsr3]

Hi Greg,

Your note was great. Just what I was looking for. I immediately went down to my garage to work on the beast. I need to clarify some things you said in your note. In sentence #2 you say "the sediment bowl will move with the fuel tank". Do you mean that the fuel tank stays attached to its mounting bracket assembly and moves backward with the back end of the tractor?? I guess that was never clear to me and it's a pretty critical thing to know. If that is the case I don't see why you need to remove any of the brackets holding the tank to the case or bell housing. I already did remove some of the tank-bracket-to-bell housing bolts but they can be easily put back. The loose tank now allows me to access the large hex bolts on the steering assembly. It looks easier to remove the hyd. steering lines from there. If you do it from the other end you need to disconnect the lines to the wheels and the pump and then drag them all backwards when you move the thing. Doesn't seem like a good idea. Please let me know what you think. Also attached a pic of my dash and hour meter---cluster type???---you can see the meter still set on one hour---probably have around 100. I assume its messy breaking the steering lines?? Also didn't understand your comment in the first note about blocking the front end from left to right. Seems if I block up under the axles and engine (3 points) it would stay still. In sentence #4 you say there is a roll pin to drive out---my parts catalog book (p. 67) shows a "circlip". Haven't checked that yet. Will wait for your response before I go any further with the fuel tank issue.

 

[grsr3]

OK Greg,

Removed the front shaft---piece of cake. After the square shield was removed there were "circlips"---what I call "C" clips--- at each end. Once they were spread and slid forward/backward a little slide cover moves front/back and down comes the shaft----nothing more than a splined bar about 1" X 18". Also found some interesting grease fittings when I was under there (one was broke--greased both) and now understand what you meant by the front swiveling around a pivot point---that's the point the fittings were for. It's amazing what one can learn when one gets off his lazy *** and crawls under something to work on it.

Geo.

 

[RonMar]

That's a Jinma article Ron, it will only get a TaiShan owner confused. I split mine last fall (clutchpack/TOB & seat/pilot bearing), and offered George a few tips in his previous thread. Perhaps he missed them.

//greg//

oops...

 

[greg_g]

Do you mean that the fuel tank stays attached to its mounting bracket assembly and moves backward with the back end of the tractor?? I guess that was never clear to me and it's a pretty critical thing to know. If that is the case I don't see why you need to remove any of the brackets holding the tank to the case or bell housing.

Yes, the fuel tank essentially remains untouched. The sediment bowl - attached to the fuel tank - obviously goes where ever the tank goes. You only have to disconnect the sediment bowl fuel line. And I thought I was pretty clear about not having to remove those brackets as well. But you will probably have to take off that small vertical plate between the "L" bracket and the green housing.

//greg//

 

[TonyMcD]

Hi George,

I had the same problem a year or so ago.
I was warned about keeping my foot off the pedal when I bought the tractor,
and have been careful about it. I've have also tried to avoid situations where there's
a lot of clutching.

My bearing seized up and ground the fingers off the clutch, so I ordered a new clutch and bearing. A buddy and I split the tractor and replaced them.

I've kept the new bearing greased, and even hook my foot under the pedal each time making sure it's pulled back all the way. I opened the cover to grease it a couple weeks ago, and the bearing is again showing abuse. Wouldn't spin freely, etc... I got grease in it and got it to spin, but not smoothly.

I'm nursing it along now, but I know that soon it will be case splitting time again.

Everyone I've talked to says "don't rest your foot on the pedal"....and I don't, so
I can believe you when you say you didn't either.

If you find a US replacement bearing, please let me know.
I like the tractor just fine, but not the throw-out bearing so much.

 

[greg_g]

My bearing seized up and ground the fingers off the clutch, so I ordered a new clutch and bearing.

I believe your problem recurred because you used the old bearing seat. The fact the clutch fingers were ground down means that the TOB rode forward on its seat. That damages the seat, which should be replaced along with the bearing.

My guess is that your replacement bearing has also ridden forward on the previously damaged seat.

//greg//

 

[grsr3]

Hello Tony,
I purchased a new TOB from Chip at Artrac. It's another Chinese bearing like the last one. I took the new one to my bearing place and we spent about an hour meauring it and searching the product cataloges and shelves for something American made that would fit. We found a number of bearings that were very close. Each was off in one dimension or another and until I split the thing (should be today) I won't know which can be used. I took one of them with me and we shall see. I don't think the bearing has to be identical in every respect---just the ones that would change the operation of the clutch---but I am not sure about that until I see how everything works inside. I will let you know. I'm sure all Kama owners want to know about this.
Geo.

 

[greg_g]

Been there, done that. The bearing number is stamped into the housing. There are a few automotive applications for older model European cars, but that's all I found. And no place in my five state area has that bearing number in their system.

Chip (or another KAMA dealer) will be your sole source.

//greg//

 

[TonyMcD]

Thanks.

I'll keep an eye on this post to see how it turns out.

Tony

 

[grsr3]

Tony,
I am taking that sliding collar that the bearing fits on to and will search for an American made bearing with a slightly smaller inside diameter. Then have the collar machined down to accept that new bearing. The outside diameter and the thickness do not have to be exactly like the old one. There is plenty of empty space around the outside of the bearing and the thickness difference will be accounted for when you adjust the pedal. Everything inside the clutch was OK except for the fingers--they were shot. The first three to contact the bearing (for the drive train) were completely ruined. The other three for PTO were not very bad. I'll let you know the bearing number when I find it. Chip from Artrac has been very helpful with parts issues. He is tearing down a new clutch assembly to supply me with the fingers since he has none in stock. He will no doubt replace them when his order arrives from the factory--if it arrives. All Kama owners should take up a collection and hire an armed guard to protect that guy. If something happens to him we are all in "parts" trouble hahaha.
PS-----there is something wrong with this web site---I had a long note made up the other day and a dozen pics. When I tried to post the stuff it asked for a log in then everything disappeared. It always asks for a log in when you post even if you just logged in-------dumb.
Geo.

 

[TonyMcD]

Thanks George & Greg,

I'm don't remember paying a whole lot of attention to the bearing seat collar on the first go around other than some grease.

When I replaced the bearing the first time, I bought a whole new clutch and throwout bearing. Didn't know you could just buy the fingers.

I have the old clutch and old bearing. I don't think the clutch was hurt any, other than the fingers being ground off. If new fingers would put it back in good shape, I could repair it and have it ready. With a new bearing and honing the seat collar, the parts would be covered.

 

[greg_g]

... and honing the seat collar, the parts would be covered.

I was with you right up to that point. Based upon my own experience with this specific tractor, I do NOT recommend machining down a damaged TOB seat (sleeve/collar). Knowing how much to trim off to match some unknown non-standard bearing, gives me great pause. Knowing the comparatively low cost of an OEM replacement, that's definitely the simpler way to go.

And any time the tractor is split for clutch work, don't forget to check/replace the pilot bearing. Since they only cost a few bux anyway, I personally skip the "check" part - and just replace them as a matter of routine.

//greg//

 

[grsr3]

Tony,
I can't imagine that your bearing collar needs to be machined!!?? That's a pretty meaty collar. If it was that badly damaged you should probably get a new one from Chip. I was suggesting maching it if your were going to try to find a different bearing to put on it, That collar and the original bearing were made for each other---like me and my honey. If you mess with the collar it may not mate up right with the shaft or the bearing. AS you can see in the pic below the collar is stepped to accept the design of the bearing. AS you also can see I HAVE a new bearing and the collar looks fine--although the pic is a little fuzzy. I just don't trust those throw out bearings. You can see in the other pic how it came apart. If I can't find a bearing that will work on that collar then I won't have any choice but to use the stuff I have.

 

[grsr3]

Tony--
One other important thing to know. The new bearings come with SOME gease in them---but it's only to protect them from rusting. You need to put that new bearing in one of those gadgets that squeezes the greases completely all thru it. I suspect the guy that put my machine together didn't do that. Or the bearings are just complete crap. Either way I am going to try to find a repacement for it----I don't want to do this job again for a long, long time. I sent some pics of my clutch discs. You can see the old disk has as much material left on it as the new disk. And there is not much of that on either of them....it sure is a crying shame that some one wasn't smart enough to add some more meat on those things---what with it being such a pain to change them. That's also proof that I did not abuse the equipment---never do---no burn marks on the plate---just a bad bearing. Never heard of a machine you have to be afraid to touch the clutch pedal. There is also a pic of how bearing and collar si on clutch and fingers---loosely assembled.
Geo.

 

[grsr3]

Pics of damaged fingers. The first three fingers to contact the bearing (for the trans and drive train) got the most damage. The other three PTO fingers are not as bad.