Buying Advice soooo appreciative for tractor buying advice PLEASE!

[NewbieUgh]

I've been lurking on these boards for a few weeks, and have to tell you, this is a great mix of well-informed and experienced members. :thumbsup: I've benefitted from a lot of advice already.

I'm a city-kitty who wound up divorced (after 30 yrs) and found herself in rural GA buying a foreclosure in the country on 7 horse pasture acres. As I didn't have horses, but already owned a Husqvarna riding mower I used that to mow the pasture grass. It was hard on the neck/back and the engine had to be rebuilt 3x in the first year. The gentleman who rebuilt it for me 3x FINALLY took pity on me and told me spending an inordinate amount of my life mowing each week and 3 rebuilds in a year was going to have me running into traffic. Ought to buy a tractor with a bush hog, he said. Never heard of a bush hog, but off I went and came back with a used New Holland TC33D that I could operate myself hydrostatic, and a squealer bush hog. My friends in FL sent me tee shirts that read "this ain't my first rodeo" and I truly enjoyed mowed the pasture grass with a cabernet in one hand and Allman Bros on the IPOD. Life was good.

Then I met a great guy in 2014, and got married. He's a remodeler. About the same time, the developer of the community wanted "out" of the 27 acres around me, so I pulled money out of 401ks and cobbled it together to buy the heavily wooded land. Now we've been hit with pine beetles in a big way. We've hired professionals to remove the pine trees near the house to the tune of $3800, and have another 35-40 more trees that have to be removed that we can't afford to have professionally removed.

Hubster has mentioned that the New Holland doesn't have enough power to help him get the trees to the burn pile. Some of the trees are 1200-1500 lbs. He'd love to have a grapple.

So here's my complex question:
a. do you vote for keeping the NH (see I have been lurking, using the jargon) and seeing if she can get retrofitted for a grapple?
b. do you vote for selling the NH and reinvesting in either a NH or Kubota with SSQA (now I'm showing off) so we can have more versatility both now with tree removal as well as down the road when we can afford to start building houses . . .
c. his wish list: box scraper, grapple, pallet fork.
d. My wish list: stump grinder (I know, there's advice on this forum to give up on this one and rent them--but since it IS my wish list thought I"d throw it out there)

Only 2 dealers near me, they are Kubota and New Holland. I NEVER buy new cars, I let somebody else take the depreciation hit for me. Does that philosophy hold up in tractors? What's the best way to get the best bang for the buck in a tractor--new or used? And what tractor would you recommend we look at?

Thank you for any and all advice you provide. I know I'm a rookie :duh:, but I love to learn! Much appreciated, Terri

 

[Coyote machine]

Maybe consider moving up to a larger HP 'Bota, or NH, since you could use your existing one to trade on a new one, or if you can afford it keep the old one and get another for the bigger jobs.

IMHO, you don't need a stump grinder, BUT you may want one. Big difference. If you truly want to get the jobs done you seem to need to do then I suggest you focus on enough HP and FEL strength to handle a grapple, etc.
So work here to fill your NEEDs list, and wait on the WANTs list until you have gotten the work done you really need to accomplish, based on what machine and skill set you two can bring to the tasks needing to be done.
Talk to the dealers in your local area and see what they suggest and bring the results back to us for review and end decision making. Tell them what you're thinking you need, but avoid budget discussions for the initial talks so you don't get pegged by the dealers. Look at local private sales too, to see what's available.
Report back results. Don't rush into any decisions, taking your time will serve you best in the long run.

Another possible option is to have the pine wood logged out professionally, even if you give up most or all of the wood for the work to be done. The beetles might present a problem though; I can't say what your situation is regarding them and your trees, but I'd consider all possible options. Maybe contact you local AG extension dept. to see what they can tell you too.

 

[NewbieUgh]

Maybe consider moving up to a larger HP 'Bota, or NH, since you could use your existing one to trade on a new one, or if you can afford it keep the old one and get another for the bigger jobs.

IMHO, you don't need a stump grinder, BUT you may want one. Big difference. If you truly want to get the jobs done you seem to need to do then I suggest you focus on enough HP and FEL strength to handle a grapple, etc.
So work here to fill your NEEDs list, and wait on the WANTs list until you have gotten the work done you really need to accomplish, based on what machine and skill set you two can bring to the tasks needing to be done.
Talk to the dealers in your local area and see what they suggest and bring the results back to us for review and end decision making. Tell them what you're thinking you need, but avoid budget discussions for the initial talks so you don't get pegged by the dealers. Look at local private sales too, to see what's available.
Report back results. Don't rush into any decisions, taking your time will serve you best in the long run.

Another possible option is to have the pine wood logged out professionally, even if you give up most or all of the wood for the work to be done. The beetles might present a problem though; I can't say what your situation is regarding them and your trees, but I'd consider all possible options. Maybe contact you local AG extension dept. to see what they can tell you too.

Thank you for responding! Good advice on getting pines logged, however, the mills aren't taking any cuz everyon'e overrun with dead pine trees, so pros are charging alot to take cut and remove. We looked at the Bota 4701, and the MX5200 and MX5800 today at a dealers. Cool factors: the quick attach options not available on my NH, and HST and heavier lift and stronger hp of course. Pricey though. I'm now surfing auctions . . . wondering if retrofitting one without quick attach is possible. Do you just get the tractor first and deal with attachments later? Package deal? Do you buy new or used? Can't afford to buy another tractor and keep the one we have. So either way NH is likely going. Trade in? or outright sale? again any thoughts eaten up with a spoon.

 

[IslandTractor]

Used compact utility tractors are generally not very good deals. The reason is that unlike automobiles, CUTs don't depreciate that rapidly. A ten year old CUT might sell for pretty close to what it cost originally (assuming inflation has driven up the cost of a new one). If you know a lot about CUTs then looking for a good used one might be worthwhile but otherwise seeking a new "old stock" tractor might be a better idea. By the way, I also don't buy new cars for the same reason you don't. Nothing wrong with a used CUT if you can find one for a good price but generally that price will not be a bargain.

If you are determined to stick with Kubota or NH because of the dealership location then be aware that you will pay a premium. Brands like Mahindra, Kioti and LS are every bit as reliable and tough and could save you thousands. Do you want a Lexus or a Hyundai? Both reliable but one has better bang for the buck.

Dealership location is not so critical if you or Hubster can change oil etc. CUTs are very reliable and you'll need to learn basic maintenance anyway (greasing etc) regardless of where your dealer is. My dealer is 300 miles away. Never needed more than a phone call and the UPS guy to bring supplies and parts to my doorstep. And, unlike Coyote Machine, I've never swung a wrench professionally or ever touched a diesel engine before buying my tractor.

If you are convinced you want a Kubota (excellent choice obviously though pricey) then for real work I would go for the MX. Don't worry about horsepower. Indeed, I would suggest the lowest horsepower MX that still has the same frame size and loader as the more expensive one. Most changes in horsepower these days amount to different engine computer settings not different engines.

A standard root grapple (look at Everything Attachments 54" single jaw Wicked grapple for about $1700) is probably what you want for dealing with dead pine trees. I would personally dig out the stumps rather than grind stumps down. Grinding takes a long time, is messy and you still have a dead rotting stump below soil that could be very dangerous to horses in the future. Digging out pine tree stumps isn't that hard. Smaller trees (less than 30 feet) can simply be pushed over after ripping roots with the tractor so the stump just pops out of the ground with the tree. Bigger trees can be cut well above grade so you have some leverage on a tall (6foot) stump to push and pull after loosening up the roots with a grapple. To be really efficient you could cut and remove the trees and just hire an experienced big excavator and operator to pop dozens of stumps out in a day (and of course the tractor and grapple could move all these stumps to a burn pile). You might also consider if you have other uses for a backhoe attachment and do the stumps one at a time at your leisure. That's what I did. Easy peasy so long as you follow some safety rules (dead trees ok but not rotten trees that could break).

BTW, my Kioti DK40se in photos below is roughly about the size and weight of the MX5200 and I have a Woods BH90x with ripper on the backhoe.

 

[IslandTractor]

Too difficult to read your opening post absent paragraphs. EDIT!

Your AP English class will begin in ten minutes, better run to class.:laughing:

 

[TheMadOne]

Trade the NH in to a dealer for money off a MX5200, MX5800 or NH of similar size. Get the attachments you know you'll need in the deal. Kubota's still running 84 months/0% I believe. Don't forget the third function valve for the grapple!

 

[TripleR]

Excellent advice so far as there are so many ways you can go to get where you want. Yes, you can change from a pin on to ssqa, James k0ua and others have done it. Before buying a NH, see who really makes them. Shibaru use to, now LS makes some and you'll pay far less for an LS name plate than NH. I'm not much of a mechanic beyond routine maintenance, so a good dealer within a reasonable distance is important. My brother on the other hand bought his Kioti out of state and it will never see the inside of their shop.

Any good brand will do given proper power and weight, personally for a single tractor, I'd want a minimum of a 45-50HP with three rear remotes along with TnT and fluid in the tires.

We have a tree removal guy hat will drop a standing tree very reasonably or drop, cut to lengths or cut and haul off depend on how much you want to pay.

We can rent a mini excavator for a week for $500 or pay for someone to grind the stumps.

Until you develop your skill set, equipment rental and paying to have something one do it beats medical costs.

Just my take for now.

 

[MESSMAKER]

Too difficult to read your opening post absent paragraphs. EDIT!

Really

 

[teg]

Personally, I would go another route. The New Holland TC33D is a good tractor, I would spend money to dress it up to work. Ask your dealer about adding the quick attach bucket, add hydraulics, grapple, maybe a logging winch... and the other attachments you guys wanted.

Can you get a portable sawmill in there to cut the logs into lumber?? Do you have need for the lumber? What is your time frame? Can you take your time cleaning up the dead pines or do you want a horse pasture tomorrow?

This is a L2800 hst with a green pine... I also have picked up pretty large rock...
View attachment 503779

 

[NewbieUgh]

better?

 

[teg]

Too difficult to read your opening post absent paragraphs. EDIT!

If it's too hard for you, you should just skip it.... instead of criticizing it.

 

[NewbieUgh]

thank you for this. you (and the hubs) were the final straw now--I don't need the stump grinder. you're right we can use other implements to accomplish task. yay! going to start researching Mahindra, Kioti and LS ALSO! soooo appreciative.

will report back.

Terri

 

[oosik]

Sooo...... you now have 34 acres and 35-40 trees that need to come down. Your 1500 pound pines should be less than 50 feet tall and less than 12" in diameter at the butt. This is not a problem if you know how to use a chainsaw. And with 27 acres of pines - its best that you learn - and from somebody that knows what they are doing. Use your connections - go talk to a neighbor - find someone that can help you learn to use a chainsaw CORRECTLY.

Stump grinder - it may sound exciting but you really only need this implement if you have trees in your immediate yard. Out in your woods - just let nature take care of them - they will soon rot away. You are going to find there are a lot more important tasks that will need your attention.

Your tractor is 33 engine horse power, 28 pto hp. It can be retrofitted with a grapple and is big enough to move your fallen pines. You will have to cut them to the appropriate size so you don't overload the tractor/grapple. Go to Forrestryforum.com and you can calculate the weight of your pines and the length to cut them to.

In the future you will build a home on the property. A tractor is NOT the proper equipment to build the driveway. However, it will be used to maintain the driveway - snow removal and occasional grading.

If you decide to purchase a bigger tractor - it should be because you have jobs/tasks that definitely require a larger machine. Bigger normally only means faster and a smaller tractor normally only takes more time. However - there are exceptions - and for those you want to consider, do you do them yourself or hire it out.

You need to consider items such as - driveway maintenance, forestry maintenance (thinning, hauling and chipping young trees to improve your stands), mowing your fields, landscaping(moving large rock, creating terraces, digging ditches etc) are you going have animals, have hay fields and mow/bale your own hay.

Choosing the correct tractor does need some long range planning. With proper maintenance a tractor can easily last a lifetime.

However - to allay your fears - very few of us have had only one tractor. There is always going to be that time when a bigger tractor goes beyond just your wishes and is necessary to complete a task. My first tractor that I had for 25 years was 28 hp - I've now moved to a 64 hp tractor because all the small jobs were finally completed.

Welcome to TBN and join us in our state of confusion

 

[Steve1300]

I typically pull trees over and out of the ground with my MX. It is quicker and I don't have to dig stumps. However, I do have to lift them and take them somewhere to cut up and burn. When I have to cut trees down, then I dig up the stumps so that I don't get the depression caused when the stump finally rots away.

Given the size of your property and the number of trees, you started out well; but it is a tradeoff. Save your back and speed up the job with a larger tractor with implements or save money while work is more difficult and slower. For many of us; time is more valuable than our budgets. I get only one day per week to jump into tasks with both feet, so I capitalize on my time with a larger tractor. When I was younger, I could not afford one; but my arms and back didn't suffer as much.

I do hope you find a solution that works well for you - and, used tractors can be nearly as expensive as new ones unless you discover the guy on Craig's List that can't afford to wait for a wealthy buyer.

 

[Coyote machine]

I would again mention skill set regarding chainsawing. If you and hubs can get the trees down SAFELY, you're at least half way there. If NOT then you need to find the safest and most economical way to get them on the ground. Once there you can cut them up into whatever sized bits to fit the equipment on site.
Certainly a Kioti would be excellent bang for $$. If they're around, used or new, check them out for sure. As stated, dealer location less of an issue , especially if bought new.

I'd think long and hard BEFORE going out to buy any tractor, new or used exactly what the budget is.
Excellent points about used market not being as much a of a potential bargain as a used car. I do just the opposite, I try to buy everything new, because I don't want to deal with other's left over problems, and gives me a long warranty period to use to work out any manufacturer's bugs. And I like new and shiny, but realize I'm going to pay for same. I'm getting too old to deal with breakdowns from used cars/etc. So I pay a premium. Not everyone can or wants to, and I fully respect that.
So access the entire situation, current needs, future uses, bang for $ available to spend, etc.

Did I punctuate properly?!:laughing:

 

[fried1765]

If it's too hard for you, you should just skip it.... instead of criticizing it.

You don't understand!
He can't help himself!
He criticizes everything, and everybody!

 

[NewbieUgh]

I'm so in awe of such a thoughtful group of folks, willing to give a newbie gal their time and advice. Thank you, thank you. My husband and I both took off work today and went to the following dealers based on your advice:
1) Mahrinda
2) Kioti
3) LS

It was a gorgeous day for a 2 1/2 hour drive, and we had a ball checking out "other" tractors. In the end, we were sooo pleasantly surprised at the options that were standard with the LS XR4100 Series, the weight of it, the feel. I hear you on the new vs. used, and I also loved the look back at growth from small hp to larger hp over time--and kind of a view from 50,000 feet. Neat. You guys ROCK. :cool2:
So we are NOT going to rush into anything anymore. We are going to check into costs to retrofit my NH as well.

So here's a question: with what we're doing would we need category II implements? the LS only has cat. I hitch.

One last question: if the LS is a diesel does that mean it's LSD?

blahahahahaha!

T

 

[IslandTractor]

Don't worry about Cat 2 issues. 98% of us on TBN use Cat 1 exclusively. Unless you are a commercial farmer with a 60+hp utility tractor you won't have need for Cat 2 implements.

LS, Mahindra and Kioti are all excellent. Looks for the best deal and model that suits your needs. And, spend a bit more time defining your needs before purchase. Also, save some budget for implements. Some things like grapple and BH are best purchased new but you can often find box blades, rakes and bush hogs in good condition used on CL or auction sites.

 

[NewbieUgh]

one more reason for considering a different tractor--my hubster said the TC33D 7308 loader doesn't lift much at all. specs say 875 lbs, trying to lift large logs will flip you over, even with counter weight bush hog in the rear.

T

 

[Tractorable]

Don't forget to check out Yanmar tractors. Made in Japan. They've been building diesels 100 years and have their US headquarters and several dealers in Georgia.

I've just had a crush on those tractors lately.