Somebody explain this.... CK20....

[Brian_Stephens]

U- Lift Capacity to Full Height @ Pivot Pins 1074 lbs
Y- Breakout Force @ Pivot Pin 1511 lbs
Approximate Weight /bucket 650 lbs

How much can I put in the bucket and lift.... If I add bucket forks that weigh say 70 pounds and have a working max of 2000 lbs what can I lift....

What I guess I'm trying to understand is the max lift with or without the bucket weight...

 

[shoppintractors]

<font color="blue">Approximate Weight /bucket 650 lbs
</font>
This is the weight of the entire front end loader frame including the bucket.

<font color="blue"> U- Lift Capacity to Full Height @ Pivot Pins 1074 lbs </font>
This is how much weight you can lift with 600 lbs. of ballast(counterweight) hanging off the 3 point hitch.

<font color="blue"> How much can I put in the bucket and lift.... If I add bucket forks that weigh say 70 pounds </font>

1074 lbs. is "@ the Pivot pins"(with 700 lbs. of ballast on the 3 point). Looking at the New Holland specs(for comparison sake).....they lose 31% moving 19.7" forward, which would be near the front edge of the bucket. Using this formula, your looking in the neighborhood of 741 lbs. near the front edge of your bucket. Now add upto 36" in front of that for your pallet forks....

You'll also need to subtract the weight of the pallet forks and the weight of a toothbar (if applicable).

<font color="blue">Y- Breakout Force @ Pivot Pin 1511 lbs </font>

This is the amount of weight you can curl in the bucket(measured @ the pivot pin), before the loader relief valve opens.

Theoretically, If you were to remove the bucket you should be able to lift 1074 lbs plus the weight of the bucket @ the pivot pins...as I see it. Your mileage may vary.

Don

 

[Brian_Stephens]

so with the BH on the tractor as ballast which weighs just shy of 900 lbs I should be good for the light duty forks max which is 800 pounds...and have a working weight of just shy of the 800 lbs... the forks weigh about 90 ls (although I may have to strenghen the bucket) if it has any issues...
I was more of less trying to ;
1) determine which forks to get
2) determine if they were going to be of any use which I think they will be...
3) determining what kind of weight the bucket will actaully take...

The first salesman ( the idiot) said 300 lbs which I really didn't believe....

 

[shoppintractors]

From a previous thread......what Kiotijohn felt about his pallet forks.

<font color="blue">All things considered, forks, toothbar and approx. 410# for one metal drum of diesel I was lifting about 600 pounds, and may have been able to go a little more weight, but not much. John
</font>

Don

 

[rback33]

Oh my..... Breakout force it NOT I repeat NOT how much you can roll back at the pivot pins. It has nothing to do with roll back. It is the amout of force/weight it is capable of moving from ground level, measured at the pivot pins. The lift cylinders are the only ones being used. This is a common misconception that hs gotten a lot of people stirred up because they don't think the loader does what it is supposed to, when in actuality they probably have no idea what the roll back capacity should be. It has not been until the last couple of years that roll back capacities have begun to pop up on spec sheets.

 

[shoppintractors]

Y- Breakout Force @ Pivot Pin 1511 lbs

This is the amount of weight you can curl in the bucket(measured @ the pivot pin.)
<font color="blue">It is the amout of force/weight it is capable of moving from ground level, measured at the pivot pins. The lift cylinders are the only ones being used. </font>

According to information posted at Carver Equipment's web site both of our statements have some validity to them.

<font color="blue"> Loader Breakaway or Breakout Force

"When using a loader -- it all starts at the front cutting edge of the bucket. The more power and force it has equals the more work you can expect to perform. The cutting edge on the bucket exerts a tremendous force as it lifts and pushes against the soil, rock, payload material you are handling. More breakway/breakout force is achieved with the combined power of the loader lift and bucket (crowd-dump-fill) cylinders. The combination of a tractor/loader's weight, hydraulic lift capacity, loader design, traction all are important ingredients to determine how much "breakout" force the equipment may develop."
</font>
Don

 

[Woodbeef]

Ok Brian,

Since you have 1074 lbs of lift capacity at the pins....you can lift x amount of weight after you subtract the weight of the forks. If you are attaching forks to the bucket you must figure in the weight of both implements.

 

[Brian_Stephens]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Ok Brian,

Since you have 1074 lbs of lift capacity at the pins....you can lift x amount of weight after you subtract the weight of the forks. If you are attaching forks to the bucket you must figure in the weight of both implements. )</font>

b - bucket
f - forks
b=650
f=90
x =1074 - b - f
x= 334 on the forks...

So you only able to lift 420 lbs in your FEL? seems sort light to me... Dads 855 (a smaller tractor) deals with 600 regularly without any issues...

these are bucket forks since Kioti doesn't make a QD setup for the bucket.... Something I'll have to make I guess....

 

[shoppintractors]

<font color="blue">b=650 </font>

The bucket only weighs approximately 150 Lbs. The 650 lbs is the entire front end loader assembly (including the arms and mounting framework.) These calculations start from where the loader bucket is mounted to the loader arms (hence @ the pivot pins.) The further out infront of the bucket you get the less you will be able to lift.

Don

 

[Brian_Stephens]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">(
These calculations start from where the loader bucket is mounted to the loader arms (hence @ the pivot pins.) The further out infront of the bucket you get the less you will be able to lift.

Don )</font>

why? Leverage? Doesn't really matter the working load max I was looking for was 800 lbs and we should be pretty close. I just won't try and lift those 3500 lb skids out of the truck...

 

[shoppintractors]

<font color="blue"> why? Leverage? </font>

Yep, Take a five gallon bucket of water and pick it up by your side. Now take a 20" long stick, hook the bucket on the end...hold this out in front of you and try to lift the bucket....heavier now? Chances are you'll need to decrease the amount of weight in the bucket to be able to lift it. Same principles apply to a front end loader.

Don

 

[Brian_Stephens]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( <font color="blue"> why? Leverage? </font>

Yep, Take a five gallon bucket of water and pick it up by your side. Now take a 20" long stick, hook the bucket on the end...hold this out in front of you and try to lift the bucket....heavier now? Chances are you'll need to decrease the amount of weight in the bucket to be able to lift it. Same principles apply to a front end loader.

Don )</font>

yes but the 20' stick weighs something I can understand that (that would equate to my foks) , and the pole itself deflects that will also make it heavier (the forks should have minimal deflection) .. There is no additional mechanical advantage on the forks (assuming they are flat) and there is no additional gravity other then the forks?

Again not a big deal... The engineering behind it is making me go hmmmm....

 

[rback33]

shoppin....we have delved off into a tangent here *LOL* You are right there as to how to acheive the most breakaway capabilites of a loader. The only point I was trying to make was that, from a purely spec related standpoint, there is not correlation of roll back power and breakout force. They are two completely different measurements. I have personally taken calls from people who sell these loaders that believe the breakout force is the roll back at the ground. It is not. Then they get nervous because they have been telling their customers that their loader won't do what he had told him it could. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

[Woodbeef]

Ok let me try again......

Not sure where you are getting your ratings at,but from the Kioti Implement & Attachment guide(which claims loader can be equipped with QT). Lift at pins is 770lbs for the KL120 loader ......A 48" bucket weighs 168lbs,54" 190lbs for this loader.

Mounting the forks in the bucket will cost capacity,plus puts the forks out further than boom mounting,which also costs lift capacity.

Talk to Terry and see if he has any suggestions for a plate to mount the forks to,instead of the bucket. Is anybody from Kioti listening?????Time for a QT setup here!!!!!

 

[shoppintractors]

<font color="blue"> Lift at pins is 770lbs for the KL120 loader </font>

Those specs have been updated by Kioti. You'll find the most current information at www.Kiotitractor.com The specs are now measured with ballast on the three point hitch (600 Lbs ballast for the CK20). The 770 Lbs was with no ballast on the three point hitch. The 150 lb bucket weight was an approximation, as noted.

Don

 

[Woodbeef]

True,the ballast column is empty in the brochure,but has 700lbs on up for the other tractors. That makes for quite a bit of extra lift then.

 

[pilonidal]

I am impressed with the lift of my CK20. Some ballast weight would really get the full potential out of it. I have a huge pile of subsoil/clay left from the excavation of my basement. The middle of the pile is really wet. You could mold and fire a vase out of the stuff. I run my loader into it and roll back the bucket and lift and come out with a full scoop, unless I hit one those Pennsylvania icebergs (looks like a small rock on top, but it's a **** boulder) then my tail end lifts up. The bottom center of the pile is lifting my tail end up also. That stuff is so thick and heavy. The loader lifts the rear of my tractor, that has to mean something. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif