So much for a Nissan Leaf!

[Pilot]

2 different Leafs, different colors, different days, barely holding 35 mph on a 5% grade. Today, outside temp was about 45 degrees, the car had headlights on, probably heater, too, draining the battery even more. It's 30+ miles to Portland. A recent report said that at 20 degrees a Leaf loses 43% of it's range. Today's driver probably went to Portland, maybe some errands and found himself barely making it home. Can't just pull over and pour in a gallon of electricity.

My humble opinion is that an all electric car is a stupid idea, except maybe if you live a lifestyle that keeps you within a few miles of home.

OTOH, Toyota is set to introduce a fuel cell powered car later this year. Zero pollution, no coal fired power plants needed to charge your car while kidding yourself about saving the world. Just need to pour in hydrogen and emit water vapor. The problem with a fuel cell powered car is getting the hydrogen, but that was a similar problem with gasoline in 1900. Once a network of stations exists, fuel cell power will be good! Gotta wait awhile, though.

 

[dave1949]

I could do most of my running in an EV. It's about 15 miles one-way to the furthest places I go for the normal errands. I don't think a Leaf would be my choice of a winter car though. It would be cool to recharge it from solar pv. A retired person with a second car could probably make that work out. But, we have three gas/diesel vehicles now.

 

[tomd999]

Hiya,

Hydrogen has serious storage issues, containers small, light and economical enough to be used in fuel cell autos or light trucks do not contain enough fuel in gas state to deliver satisfactory range. The exotic composite that Quantum announced last year holds promise but their paper was a forward looking statement and I haven't heard of anything close to being released for use yet. The liquid fuel systems need to be kept at very low temps, not really suitable for automotive use and field refilling is difficult at best.

The most versatile fuel for the majority of cars and trucks remains, even as much as the greenies hate it, Diesel. To that point, why aren't the hybrids Diesel-electrics? The basic concept has been in use since 1946 in railroad.

Tom

 

[Mace Canute]

The Hydrogen Hoax - The New Atlantis

 

[k0ua]

2 different Leafs, different colors, different days, barely holding 35 mph on a 5% grade. Today, outside temp was about 45 degrees, the car had headlights on, probably heater, too, draining the battery even more. It's 30+ miles to Portland. A recent report said that at 20 degrees a Leaf loses 43% of it's range. Today's driver probably went to Portland, maybe some errands and found himself barely making it home. Can't just pull over and pour in a gallon of electricity.

My humble opinion is that an all electric car is a stupid idea, except maybe if you live a lifestyle that keeps you within a few miles of home.

OTOH, Toyota is set to introduce a fuel cell powered car later this year. Zero pollution, no coal fired power plants needed to charge your car while kidding yourself about saving the world. Just need to pour in hydrogen and emit water vapor. The problem with a fuel cell powered car is getting the hydrogen, but that was a similar problem with gasoline in 1900. Once a network of stations exists, fuel cell power will be good! Gotta wait awhile, though.

The problem is there is no place to "get the hydrogen". Hydrogen must be manufactured. and you use more energy to make hydrogen and you emit more pollution than if you had just burned a fossil fuel in the car to begin with. Unless we are talking about using solar or nuclear to crack water. And how are going to store the hydrogen in the car.. That problem has not been solved.. I doubt seriously there will ever be a hydrogen consumer car.

 

[Gunny]

The wife and I looked at the Leaf when they first came out. We thought that since she only drives 8 miles one way to work and the stores are only 6 miles away that it might work for us.

For that, it would have worked well, but she makes weekly visits to see her mother and she lives 31 miles away, plus when she visits, she usually takes her mother to the grocery store, etc, which would add 60 round trip miles to the 62 round trip miles from and to home. Then, our two "big" cities are each 50 miles away for mall shopping, etc, so while it looked good at first glance, we would still have to have a "real" car for the wife to drive and I just couldn't see spending that much money for a car just to drive to and from work.

Then their salesman didn't help things much when he got to talking about the costs involved with the charging station, an assessment, installation, financing for the station, etc. When I asked why I couldn't install the charging station myself, he went into a hissy fit, telling me that certified installers HAD to install and test the station, on and on and on. He was probably still rambling while we walked out the door.

 

[dave1949]

The wife and I looked at the Leaf when they first came out.

<snip>

Then their salesman didn't help things much when he got to talking about the costs involved with the charging station, an assessment, installation, financing for the station, etc. When I asked why I couldn't install the charging station myself, he went into a hissy fit, telling me that certified installers HAD to install and test the station, on and on and on. He was probably still rambling while we walked out the door.

Hmmm, never thought about it but I bet they are worried that the car will be blamed for a charging station problem. Not saying you don't know how to install it. You would think the best way they could handle their concerns would be a free follow-up inspection and check-out of a customer's charging station install, regardless of who installed it.

 

[jinman]

I would love to see diesel-electric be tried in an OTR long-haul truck. My issue with most technologies (including natural gas) is that ther is not enough energy to support the large variation in power needed to move a big truck under varying conditions. Sure, trains use diesel-electric, but even railed vehicles are predictable in their power requirements. I think natural gas could be the wave of the future, but not without new designs and a change in our delivery logistics. For now, I just can't support the ideas of electric or hydrogen vehicles in open road applications.

 

[Bird]

I'd love to have a totally electric pickup about like my old Ford Ranger. I drive the Ranger nearly every day, but most of the time less than 30 mile round trips and while I want a pickup bed, I don't haul heavy loads. Of course, I'd keep a gasoline car for any longer trips.

 

[rekees4300]

If a vehicle is unable to go from point A to point B then it's worthless. Who wants to be cruising down an interstate with a semi on your bumper when the battery dies?! The world really needs a better battery. Suspect it's possible but the oil companies aren't about to permit that to happen.

 

[charlz]

I looked at the Leaf last year some time. Once you add in the charging station costs it really doesn't pencil out. You can charge without the dedicated charging station but you may or may not reach full charge before the next morning depending on when you plugged it in.

What I would like is a cheap NG powered vehicle as there is a NG station not too far from my work. Used NG Honda Civics carry quite the premium though, way more than I would want to pay for a used vehicle.

 

[kiotiken]

The rumor is that they're going to double the battery from 24 KWH to 48. While that doesn't necessarily double the range, it should come close and more than enough for me to buy one as a daily commuter. I'd love a Tesla model S, but they're about $8K more in Canada and fairly pricey to start. If the Leaf has a 300+ KM range (shouldn't be a problem with a 48 KWH batt.) and I only drive 80 KM on a normal day and maybe 120 KM at max, it makes a lot of sense since it costs 1/10 to drive, no more oil changes and far less maintenance.

 

[davrow]

I've been driving electric for 11 years. First the 2002 Toyota RAV4-EV, now a 2011 Th!nk. The RAV had better range, I could drive to our folks house 100 miles away, charge there overnight and drive home. The Th!nk only gets 70 miles per charge. Both max out at about 70MPH.

But it is strictly my commuter car, 16 miles per day (8 each way) with any lunchtime trips needed. I charge 2 or 3 times a week, not every night. And this has worked, as I say, for 11 years. If I need range, I take my wife's minivan.

It will never pay for the extra I paid by saving me at the pump. But I love driving electric.

 

[Soundguy]

just pull a super spall utility trailer with a genny on it and some cables.

2 different Leafs, different colors, different days, barely holding 35 mph on a 5% grade. Today, outside temp was about 45 degrees, the car had headlights on, probably heater, too, draining the battery even more. It's 30+ miles to Portland. A recent report said that at 20 degrees a Leaf loses 43% of it's range. Today's driver probably went to Portland, maybe some errands and found himself barely making it home. Can't just pull over and pour in a gallon of electricity.

My humble opinion is that an all electric car is a stupid idea, except maybe if you live a lifestyle that keeps you within a few miles of home.

OTOH, Toyota is set to introduce a fuel cell powered car later this year. Zero pollution, no coal fired power plants needed to charge your car while kidding yourself about saving the world. Just need to pour in hydrogen and emit water vapor. The problem with a fuel cell powered car is getting the hydrogen, but that was a similar problem with gasoline in 1900. Once a network of stations exists, fuel cell power will be good! Gotta wait awhile, though.

 

[jhobbie]

As the new guy here I thought I would pipe in. I have a 2011 Leaf. It is the best car I have ever owned! Yes the range is an issue in the winter but it is fine if you pay attention. It really is nice to not have to buy gas! I work 30 miles from home. I can charge at work(240) and at home(110) if needed. After the payment for the car and the higher insurance I still save 20-40 dollars per month over my old gas bill! O and its quit fun to drive!

 

[Soundguy]

wow.. 20$ a month savings and you can't make an extended trip.. or extended evac in an emergency with no or unknown utility availability, like in the case of a disaster. Last big hurricane inmy area left us without power 2-3 weeks. ...having an electric vehicle woulda (BEEP)ed for sure during that time!

hmm.. sign me up! er.. no.. wait. I'll take the 900m range i have in my diesel f450... And I can brag that I don't have to buy GAS either

 

[jhobbie]

wow.. 20$ a month savings and you can't make an extended trip.. or extended evac in an emergency with no or unknown utility availability, like in the case of a disaster. Last big hurricane inmy area left us without power 2-3 weeks. ...having an electric vehicle woulda (BEEP)ed for sure during that time!

hmm.. sign me up! er.. no.. wait. I'll take the 900m range i have in my diesel f450... And I can brag that I don't have to buy GAS either

Did I mention I have 3 cars, 2 motorcycles, 4 tractors? I'll be OK!:thumbsup:

 

[Bob77064]

Just my opinion, the battery technology is not where it needs to be yet. Hopefully it will improve.

 

[Soundguy]

Did I mention

No you didn;t

 

[PapaPerk]

Toyota Prius still wins! Perfect blend of green and common sense. If its a little small for you the Camry hybrid is very nice!!