shifting from reverse to first

[bmorelectric]

I am having trouble when I shift from reverse into first and first into reverse. I can start the tractor in gear with the clutch in without the tractor moving. I also need a fan belt, any stores recommended to get parts? I just bought the tractor and I am not familiar with it, any help would be appreciated. 1970 Harvester International 454.

 

[Texasmark]

I had a 45 hp 4 cyl. gas '74 464 once. Suggest you adjust the clutch linkage. Going to bet your clutch is dragging on the flywheel and not disconnecting the input shaft from the engine like it should causing it to spin the gears in the tranny causing your problem.

Quick check is that it is real sensitive to engine rpms. If it gets harder to engage as rpms increase then I'd say that's it.

Tighten up the linkage so that you get more movement on the clutch fork for a given amount of pedal movement. Just enough to get it to quit.

HTH,
Mark

 

[bmorelectric]

Thanks for the input. The only thing is that I can start the tractor in gear with the clutch in and not move or jump. Would this still the clutch adjustment? I think the RPM does make a difference. I tried lowering the RPM and it was alittle better.

 

[Texasmark]

Put the tractor in gear, idling ok, clutch out on a somewhat level surface. Slowly depress the clutch till you feel your ground speed decrease, or the engine speed increase, or something indicating that you are disconnecting from the flywheel.

At that point, how much pedal do you have before it bottoms out? If you are at the bottom of the range or say within an inch, I'd look at adjusting it.

Mark

 

[bmorelectric]

The tractor is up north. When I go up next weekend, I will try that out. Thanks

 

[bmorelectric]

I can disengage the flywheel about 3/4 of the pedal but still having trouble shifting. The gears sound like they are still turning and not meshing. What oil should I be using for the transmission. I guess I should get a manual. Thanks Brian

 

[john_bud]

What form is the "trouble"?

Clashing gear sounds? First off, the machine should be stopped before shifting. I put in the clutch, stop totally, wait a heart beat, then shift. Non-syncro gears (assuming that's the case) are called crash boxes for a reason.

 

[bmorelectric]

Clutch pushed in, gas lever lowering rpm, tractor stopped, change from first to reverse. It sounds as if the gears are still turning and are not meshing properly, when the clutch is released slowly. Sometimes it is ok?? I am not shifting the gears in the right position?

 

[RoyJackson]

If it's a non-synchro transmission (probably is, considering it's an old IH 454) and you do stop completely...but still crash gears, I'd suggest your clutch needs adjustment.

 

[jimmysisson]

Or binding pilot bushing? Tough to lube without tractor split.
Jim

 

[Texasmark]

Or what kind of PTO setup do you have and what is connected to the tractor when you experience this problem? The 1/4 travel remaining in the clutch linkage when the engine disconnects sounds fine to me.

Course if you have a synchro tranny and the synchro bushings are worn out that could be it. Their purpose is to keep everything spinning at about the same speed so that the gears will have time to mesh.

If you have a transmission driven PTO (not live nor independent) anything in the gear train out the PTO shaft that continues to rotate will spin the gears in the tranny and make shifting difficult until it all stops moving.

Cutting the throttle to idle and giving the gears time to cease movement helps in shifting also.

As stated having the tractor stationary helps.

HTH,
Mark

 

[bmorelectric]

Thanks for the information. I believe it is a live PTO. Nothing is connected to the PTO. I just got the service manual for the tractor and will be understanding the tractor a little better. I will post in another forum concerning the oil types to make sure that is good.

 

[oldpilgrim]

If I have the pto engaged on my Ferguson, it's extremely hard to go from reverse to first and vice versa. Disengage the pto and it's smooth going.

 

[bmorelectric]

I will try that. I keep hitting the level for the PTO and I am not sure if that is the reason why it is hard to shift sometimes. Thanks for the input.

 

[merlynr]

I can go from forward to reverse with my 454 without grinding the gears and even while bushogging. I think you have a problem but I don't know what it could be. I would adjust the clutch linkage a little bit and see if that helps. The transmission oil and the hydraulics are all one reservoir.

 

[bmorelectric]

Thanks for the input. I will have to look into it more. What oil are you using?

 

[Texasmark]

If I have the pto engaged on my Ferguson, it's extremely hard to go from reverse to first and vice versa. Disengage the pto and it's smooth going.

My experience with early Fergies, I had a TO20 and a MF 35, is the TO is like it's Ford cousin the N series. Both brands had tranny driven PTOs back then and you needed an overrun clutch on the PTO for both. Even my '63 Ford 2000 which is a blue 600 Ford series (30 hp) has a tranny driven PTO and I have to be careful what I do with it as with it too with a rotary mower I need an overrun for it to work safely.

Put one on for about $75 from TSC new and you will know what I'm talking about. Be sure and match the PTO shafts. In the early days they were 1 1/8" dia input shafts required for the attachment, 1 3/8 for the output as I recall and later on standardized with the 1 3/8 input shaft.

If you have the wrong drive shaft you will either need an overrun with a small input/common out as stated, or buy an additional adapter. I would not recommend that as anything else on the drive train just amounts to more "loose bolts" and more vibration.

Mark

 

[merlynr]

Thanks for the input. I will have to look into it more. What oil are you using?

Don't remember what oil but I think it was generic hydraulic oil.
On a side note, a 454 has independent pto and has nothing to do with the clutch. The 454 is more like a modern tractor with 540 and 1000 rpm pto with rear diff lock and hydraulic brakes and hydraulic power steering from steering wheel to the two way ram under the front that is connected to the tie rods.

 

[oldpilgrim]

My experience with early Fergies, I had a TO20 and a MF 35, is the TO is like it's Ford cousin the N series. Both brands had tranny driven PTOs back then and you needed an overrun clutch on the PTO for both. Even my '63 Ford 2000 which is a blue 600 Ford series (30 hp) has a tranny driven PTO and I have to be careful what I do with it as with it too with a rotary mower I need an overrun for it to work safely.

Put one on for about $75 from TSC new and you will know what I'm talking about. Be sure and match the PTO shafts. In the early days they were 1 1/8" dia input shafts required for the attachment, 1 3/8 for the output as I recall and later on standardized with the 1 3/8 input shaft.

If you have the wrong drive shaft you will either need an overrun with a small input/common out as stated, or buy an additional adapter. I would not recommend that as anything else on the drive train just amounts to more "loose bolts" and more vibration.

Mark

my Fergie is a TO30 and whenever the pto is on, it shifts really hard or not at all....with or without anything on the shaft.

I had a 3pt mounted BH on the machine with a pto powered hydro pump. If I wanted to move the tractor and left the BH pto pump spinning, it would shift really hard or not at all. I finally re-plumbed the BH into the loader pump which ran off the front of the engine. I never use the pto anymore for anything.just don't have the need.

 

[Texasmark]

I can go from forward to reverse with my 454 without grinding the gears and even while bushogging. I think you have a problem but I don't know what it could be. I would adjust the clutch linkage a little bit and see if that helps. The transmission oil and the hydraulics are all one reservoir.

I had a 1964 464 45 hp once and the PTO was Independent. An independent PTO is independent of the engine tranny interface hence it gets it's name and has no effect on shifting. That's what's nice about them. I have that choice on my Branson. But it also has the choice for Live PTO with the flip of a switch and I like that for post hole work as previously mentioned. Both allow for effortless shifting.

Mark