Sewer Hookup and Backhoe

[KTurner]

If this is Charles County, sounds like someone is feeding you some not so good info. Md. Dept. of the Environment controls the water and sewer permits.

We're at the southern end of the Bay, near the York river.

It has been possible to pay the tap fees and not hook up to the county system if the current system is completely functional and not showing any signs of failure. (dependent on where in the county the property lies.

Interesting. I'll have to ask about this.

Another kicker about this is they use the justification that we'll recover the costs in the form of higher property values when we sell. This land has been in my wife's family for 200 years. We don't plan to ever sell. So, all those higher property values mean to us is our yearly property tax bill goes up (faster than normal).

Keith

 

[JB4310]

Again, around here. When they install a new sewer on a street that never had one before you pay an assessment based on your linear frontage. so basically you're paying for how much work it took to pass your property.

You pay regardless of whether you connect or not, but they can't prevent you from connecting even if your not paid up (they will put a lien on the property) It is usually very favorable terms to pay the assessment, like no interest for 10 years or something.

Also when they pass a property the do the connection to the main and bring a stub/ lateral into the private property, right on the line. That way a private owner can do the connection and install without special insurance or bonding.

The 1936 house I live in had sewer put in the street in 1970, but the home owner never connected. They did pay the assessment so when I bought it in 2002, I connected to the sewer, not wanting to risk using a 70 year old septic system with a family of 5.

Sewer company came and marked where the lateral should be and sure enough it was dead on about 7 feet down, with a wood stake driven right in front and above it so it was easy for the excavator to find it without damaging it.

We crossed the end of the septics leech field and surprisingly it looked pristine, clay tile bedded in course stone, looked like water had never made it that far down the line in 70 years. Septic systems are pretty remarkable, the guy I bought the house from didn't even know he was on septic for the 20 years he lived there.

JB

 

[F250DSLPWR]

Rent a backhoe or excavator or trencher
Lay out where you want to dig the lines
Call before you dig and have everything marked (gas lines, utility lines etc...)
Have the county come out and explain to them what you want to do.
Find out from the county what the slope needs to be for your sewer line, (typically .125" per foot drop)
Find out any of the other requirements for you to do the job yourself.
In Texas most counties allow people to do the work themselves.
start diggin a nice trench,
Call for inspection
Have the plumber do the final connection to the main line.
It ain't easy work, but it ain't rocket science either.

 

[F250DSLPWR]

Quick question, I have a septic line that is orangeberg that is starting to fail and it runs under a patio slab. Is there a pipe that will fit just inside the orangeberg pipe? The current setup is the cast iron under the house to orangeberg, under the patio they then had a rubber boot and tied in pvc. the orangeberg is deteriorated at the boot, I plan on digging around it as far back as possible and putting in a new boot or if possible lining the orangeberg pipe with a new pipe. Any suggestions?

 

[tlbuser]

We're at the southern end of the Bay, near the York river.



Interesting. I'll have to ask about this.

Another kicker about this is they use the justification that we'll recover the costs in the form of higher property values when we sell. This land has been in my wife's family for 200 years. We don't plan to ever sell. So, all those higher property values mean to us is our yearly property tax bill goes up (faster than normal).

Keith

Interesting that two different jurisdictions are using very similar lines of BS on their taxpayers! I currently am paying a yearly "septic fee" on top of my property taxes. The ruse being that if my system fails, the state will help me put in a new Chesapeake Bay, environmentally safe one. The kicker being that the program is financially needs based, so odds are, my home will never qualify for assistance.

 

[tractchores]

Quick question, I have a septic line that is orangeberg that is starting to fail and it runs under a patio slab. Is there a pipe that will fit just inside the orangeberg pipe? The current setup is the cast iron under the house to orangeberg, under the patio they then had a rubber boot and tied in pvc. the orangeberg is deteriorated at the boot, I plan on digging around it as far back as possible and putting in a new boot or if possible lining the orangeberg pipe with a new pipe. Any suggestions?

I'm not sure if they do this with sewer pipes, but I had a water main replaced recently in an urban area and they had a method where they would dig down at the street T, snake a cable through the water pipe into the building and then use a heavy machine to pull the cable through. The backend of the cable was either connected to a bullet shaped piece of metal and a flexible plastic pipe (the bullet brakes clay or iron pipes and replaces it with the flexible pipe as its pulled through) or in some cases they can pull out the old pipe and the new pipe is pulled behind in its place. It made a $10k job a $2k job and took a couple of hours. I believe they also do it with sewer pipes here as well. Only 2 companies in the area were able to do it and it required some special equipment and the company to be bonded by the town. It was a pretty sweet setup and avoided us having to dig up a lawn, front steps, walkway and retaining wall.

 

[JB4310]

Quick question, I have a septic line that is orangeberg that is starting to fail and it runs under a patio slab. Is there a pipe that will fit just inside the orangeberg pipe? The current setup is the cast iron under the house to orangeberg, under the patio they then had a rubber boot and tied in pvc. the orangeberg is deteriorated at the boot, I plan on digging around it as far back as possible and putting in a new boot or if possible lining the orangeberg pipe with a new pipe. Any suggestions?

The problem with orangeburg is it squashes out, so you would not be able to get a suitable sized pipe in it. If it 4 inch of any type of pipe you wouldn't be able to sleeve it IMO.

If it were clear enough to sleeve, you wouldn't need to anyway, if that makes any sense, if it's just bad at the connection, just replace that section.

JB

 

[AGGIE00]

I'm not sure if they do this with sewer pipes, but I had a water main replaced recently in an urban area and they had a method where they would dig down at the street T, snake a cable through the water pipe into the building and then use a heavy machine to pull the cable through. The backend of the cable was either connected to a bullet shaped piece of metal and a flexible plastic pipe (the bullet brakes clay or iron pipes and replaces it with the flexible pipe as its pulled through) or in some cases they can pull out the old pipe and the new pipe is pulled behind in its place. It made a $10k job a $2k job and took a couple of hours. I believe they also do it with sewer pipes here as well. Only 2 companies in the area were able to do it and it required some special equipment and the company to be bonded by the town. It was a pretty sweet setup and avoided us having to dig up a lawn, front steps, walkway and retaining wall.

It's called slip lining if they are just pulling in a smaller pipe, or pipe bursting if they are maintaining the same diameter or larger. I worked for Insituform where we inverted a wet liner in the existing pipe that is then cured out.

 

[F250DSLPWR]

Thanks for the feed back and suggestions on the orangeberg pipe issue. There is only about 25'-30' of it under the patio and unfortunately I can't easily get to the cast iron pipe under the house on the other side of the patio....
My current plan of action is to see if I can dig back to a good section of the Oberg and then put a rubber boot connecting it to a new PVC pipe and clean out. That is the way it was done previously.

Another idea I was given was to use 3" PVC which is legal here for sewer pipe and run it inside the Oberg pipe possibly as far as i can go inside the Oberg maybe all the way to the cast iron pipe (I am pretty sure it is a straight shot) and then just run the 3" back to the current 4" and size back up. Since I am not a plumber, I was concerned that the hump where the 3" pvc ends inside the Oberg would create a blockage point where I would have continual problems?

 

[TRR]

Roy - I thought I was the last of the people that worked with cast iron and thought that no one else even knew what oakum was. It's a small club anymore.

 

[ultrarunner]

Quick question, I have a septic line that is orangeberg that is starting to fail and it runs under a patio slab. Is there a pipe that will fit just inside the orangeberg pipe? The current setup is the cast iron under the house to orangeberg, under the patio they then had a rubber boot and tied in pvc. the orangeberg is deteriorated at the boot, I plan on digging around it as far back as possible and putting in a new boot or if possible lining the orangeberg pipe with a new pipe. Any suggestions?

All the orangeburg I have seen deforms to look like a figure 8 when looking at it from the side...

Not going to be able to slip anything inside... I'm afraid.

The easiest way to minimize disruption is to do a trenchless replacement where a new seamless line is pulled behind a bursting head... it works very slick... the downside is cost...

I realize things are higher in California... seems to go about $50 a foot here with permit.

 

[ultrarunner]

Roy - I thought I was the last of the people that worked with cast iron and thought that no one else even knew what oakum was. It's a small club anymore.

I've got the pots and ladles, molds, oakum and lead wool... the last repair I did was in 1982...

 

[F250DSLPWR]

Thanks for the info. Yep, years ago when I as a young kid my dad had to dig up our sewer line and replace the orangeberg, because it had collapsed into a figure 8 shape. This orangeberg so far is oval and has not collapsed yet. It might not ever collapse since it is under a patio slab, but I was looking for a cheap way to fix the problem.. Thanks to everyone for their insight and advise.

 

[shownuff]

I would get some prices from someone who does this kind of work,if its required to have insurance and be qualified in this field it might be cheaper to have them do it especially if you have 3 homes to connect .we used 4 inch sch 35 pipe which isnt real chep to buy and we needed 3 cleanouts in a 85 ft run.there should be a stub on your property that comes off the main i think if you dont have to go to the mainline there shouldnt be any problem-my town wanted a engineers drawing for the install but settled on a basic sketch.also have you any idea how deep the existing sewer outlet is to the septic tank?-better check that and the depth of the connection at the stub or street.you might need a surveyer to figure out if you have enough pitch in the pipe to make it work correctly

 

[RoyJackson]

Roy - I thought I was the last of the people that worked with cast iron and thought that no one else even knew what oakum was. It's a small club anymore.

Well, this was in 1968...I was just a wee laddie then...

 

[AKfish]

I've got the pots and ladles, molds, oakum and lead wool... the last repair I did was in 1982...

I worked on commercial plumbing jobs with cast iron. Nothing like the smell of melting lead in the morning... Smaller club than I care to admit!

AKfish

 

[AKfish]

Good laughs on this thread! Coffee on the monitor kind of morning...

AKfish

 

[JB4310]

Another idea I was given was to use 3" PVC which is legal here for sewer pipe and run it inside the Oberg pipe possibly as far as i can go inside the Oberg maybe all the way to the cast iron pipe (I am pretty sure it is a straight shot) and then just run the 3" back to the current 4" and size back up. Since I am not a plumber, I was concerned that the hump where the 3" pvc ends inside the Oberg would create a blockage point where I would have continual problems?

The pipe will work fine if it's just ovalized, don't try to sleeve it, you will be reducing capacity and almost certainly create a choke point where blockage will occur. Going from oval 4" to round 4" may even be a problem, but should work ok.

Roy - I thought I was the last of the people that worked with cast iron and thought that no one else even knew what oakum was. It's a small club anymore.

I've never worked with cast iron, except no hub. But I remember a crazy old timer, union plumber, talking about when he was an apprentice and how he did his time "swinging the hammer" referring to packing the bells with the oakum.

Pretty amazing stuff, I've seen 3 family houses burn to the ground, leaving nothing but the brick chimney and a 40 foot stack of cast iron pipe standing, even though you would think the heat would melt the lead.
I've heard that code in NYC still requires cast iron, no plastic. not sure if that's still true.

JB

 

[RoyJackson]

I worked on commercial plumbing jobs with cast iron. Nothing like the smell of melting lead in the morning... Smaller club than I care to admit!

AKfish

Or that lead spitting back in your face when pouring it on cold cast iron...

 

[AKfish]

Or that lead spitting back in your face when pouring it on cold cast iron...

Whoa... never had to get into a contorted spot where I couldn't get away from the joint when pouring!

I was pretty good at snapping the pipe to length. Hardly ever a re-do; so, the journeymen would bring me their cuts.

AKfish