Sickle Bar Running hyd. lines to rear for Sickle Bar cutter

[Boeing]

Guys, I have an older Kubota L-3010. It has a FEL but no hyd to the rear. I want to buy a 3 PT sickle bar (PTO driven) but need hyd to raise/lower the cutter. AS I RECALL.....bad word....there are a couple of "capped" hydraulic outlets on the R side hanging below the FEL quick disconnects. Can I get hyd lines made up and use these quick disconnects? I read that I could DIS CONNECT the FEL and use it's lever to actuate the cutter. Good idea?????
Thanks, R

 

[Gordon Gould]

Just an idea here.... I have an L3010 and a 7' sickle bar mower I run on it. When I use the sickle bar I like to remove the loader. The tractor handles much better. When you remove the loader it frees up the loader hydraulics - all with Quick Connects on them. Why not use them for your sickle bar. If you don't want to remove the loader just disconnect the dump/curl FEL lines like you said. Absolutely nothing wrong with that.

I'm lucky to have rear hydraulics on mine. You could also add another valve and rear ports. This is how I added a port for my grapple (3rd function). You could do the same and put the valve and port in the rear.

https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/hydraulics/198367-photos-third-function-valve-project.html





gg

 

[CoyPatton]

Personally, I like the additional valve concept.
I would plumb it as my 1st valve and let power beyond from the ‘new’ valve feed my loader valve.
From the new valve, run hoses to the rear for remotes there. If in the future you want/need a grapple, you could run lines either from the valve with quick connects or from the remotes to the grapple.
A bit of creativity in how you mount both valves could make usage of the valve for a grapple a fairly simple reach.
Side note—1st in plumbing has nothing to do with physical location.

 

[TerryR]

I bought a ditch and bank flail a couple of years ago, and had no rear hydraulics on my JD 870. Since I take off the loader for mowing anyway for maneuverability, I just added some extension hoses on the mower to reach the FEL outlets and it works fine. It's nice having the joystick that's right under my hand anyway work the mower hydraulics.

 

[Boeing]

Gordon, I've read that trying to stand the FEL up, remove the pins and back out from under it THEN......trying to get under to RE-align the attachment is a nightmare. My unit is advertised as "Quick disconnect" but in 11 years I've never attempted it. COWARD but old....and alone...
How does one determine WHICH lines are for TILT and which for RAISE arms on the FEL? I see from your photo that the sickle only needs ONE hyd line? Thought it had to have a pressure and return for EACH action.....bar tilt in this case. Thanks

 

[Boeing]

Terry, same comment as Gordon. He and I have Kubota's but I've never attempted removing the FEL. A post here years ago said it was a nightmare trying to RE-attach the loader.
I'm too old for nightmares.....

 

[TerryR]

Re-attaching the FEL on my JD is only an issue if it's left on less than solid ground so it moves and puts pressure on one or more line. Since I got a concrete floor in my tractor barn 15 years ago I've never had an issue.

Just make sure the supports that hold it up are stable and don't want to move, and that you shut off the engine and cycle all the controls several times so there's no pressure in the lines before you unhook them.

Figuring out which connector did what was "interesting" but I was able to trace the lines out and get it right the first time. I needed the one that lift's the cutter to have a float position, so had to connect that one to the line for the lift cylinders. Don'e know whether that's an issue with your mower.

 

[Gordon Gould]

On my L3010 FEL valve there are 4 hydraulic couplers on top. The two outside ones are dump and curl (easiest to get to for removal ) they have color coded coupler covers on them, Blue/Blk and Red. The two inside, yellow and white, are the loader arms up and down.

I have never had any thing close to a nightmare removing and reinstalling the loader. Just followed the instructions in the loader manual. First couple times was slow because I was unsure but there were not any troubles. Never had to crawl underneath. Do it all standing straight up. To me it is easier than mounting a lot of 3ph implements I have. Like Terry says do it on solid level ground. I always remove it in the garage with a concrete floor. The last step where you curl the bucket to lift the arms out of the frame towers make sure you lower the bucket all the way so that the bottom of the bucket is flat on the floor. Do not leave the heel up a little - it will cause pressure build up when it tries to settle. Then turn off the tractor and operate the loader valve in every position a couple times to relieve the pressure. Then remove the quick couplers and you should be fine.

I am too old for nightmares too, 74, and don't think twice about doing this. Knock on wood.

If you don't have a manual with instructions I can email you a copy of that section.

gg

 

[Boeing]

Thank you so much guys, for taking the time to answer and explain. If I may, just one more question...Gordon mentioned that the two OUTSIDE lines are DUMP and CURL.
I do not have the sickle bar cutter yet and PRESUME that there are TWO hyd lines, although on your photos I only see ONE line???? If this is so....WHICH line do I connect? If Murphy's Law prevails and I connect the WRONG line...have I done damage? To the cutter or the tractor? I hate boo-boo's.
Gordon, I do have the FEL manual, THANK YOU, and had read and even high-lighted the procedure but it looked risky so I've never attempted it. I use the FEL ALL the time, scooping up gravel for the road, pushing downed trees off my trails, even getting my dumb butt out of "stuck" situations with the "dump and curl" action. Thanks again for your help. Rob W.

 

[Gordon Gould]

My sickle bar has a single acting cylinder - that is there is only one hose and port on the cylinder. On the ram end in this case. It requires fluid under pressure to push back or retract the ram which raises the bar towards vertical. When the pressure is released gravity pulls the bar down towards horizontal as the fluid in the cylinder flows in the reverse direction out of the cylinder and back into the tractor tank.

The valves on the rear of the tractor and loader are dual acting - push the lever one way and one side of the port is pressurized and the other side has no pressure and is a return to the tank. So pressurized fluid moves into one end of the cylinder while the fluid in the other end gets pushed out and flows back into the tank as the ram moves. If you have a single acting cylinder with one hose, like on my mower, you can connect that hose to either side of a dual acting port. Push the lever one way and pressurized fluid flows into the cylinder and the ram moves. The other port is connected to the tank but nothing happens because there is no connection on that port. Then push the lever the other way. Now the port with the hose gets connected to the tank and gravity moves the ram which pushes out the fluid and it returns to the tank. But, the other half of the port, w/o a hose connection, gets pressurized. The fluid has no where to go so the pressure builds until the relief valve opens giving the pressurized fluid a return path to the tank. In general it is not good to put a system into pressure relief for long periods of time because it heats the fluid. But for low duty cycle situations like an occasional mower height adjustment there is no danger of over heating the fluid. Hope this helps,

gg

 

[TerryR]

I am too old for nightmares too, 74, and don't think twice about doing this. Knock on wood.

I agree, and my wife is planning my 80th birthday party.

 

[Boeing]

Gordon, Thank you for taking the time to explain. This has helped immensely. The unit is on order and I'm looking forward to it...:laughing:

 

[CoyPatton]

Gordon, I've read that trying to stand the FEL up, remove the pins and back out from under it THEN......trying to get under to RE-align the attachment is a nightmare. My unit is advertised as "Quick disconnect" but in 11 years I've never attempted it. COWARD but old....and alone...
How does one determine WHICH lines are for TILT and which for RAISE arms on the FEL? I see from your photo that the sickle only needs ONE hyd line? Thought it had to have a pressure and return for EACH action.....bar tilt in this case. Thanks

To ID the ports, chase the hose once chased or more accurately as chasing have on hand several of 4 colors of zip ties. Put a zip tie on each hose where it connects to the cylinder,and anywhere in between that hells you keep track—at joints of metal to rubber hoses and where they connect to the valve. The color zip ties makes future questions much simpler.

 

[CoyPatton]

My sickle bar has a single acting cylinder - that is there is only one hose and port on the cylinder. On the ram end in this case. It requires fluid under pressure to push back or retract the ram which raises the bar towards vertical. When the pressure is released gravity pulls the bar down towards horizontal as the fluid in the cylinder flows in the reverse direction out of the cylinder and back into the tractor tank.

The valves on the rear of the tractor and loader are dual acting - push the lever one way and one side of the port is pressurized and the other side has no pressure and is a return to the tank. So pressurized fluid moves into one end of the cylinder while the fluid in the other end gets pushed out and flows back into the tank as the ram moves. If you have a single acting cylinder with one hose, like on my mower, you can connect that hose to either side of a dual acting port. Push the lever one way and pressurized fluid flows into the cylinder and the ram moves. The other port is connected to the tank but nothing happens because there is no connection on that port. Then push the lever the other way. Now the port with the hose gets connected to the tank and gravity moves the ram which pushes out the fluid and it returns to the tank. But, the other half of the port, w/o a hose connection, gets pressurized. The fluid has no where to go so the pressure builds until the relief valve opens giving the pressurized fluid a return path to the tank. In general it is not good to put a system into pressure relief for long periods of time because it heats the fluid. But for low duty cycle situations like an occasional mower height adjustment there is no danger of over heating the fluid. Hope this helps,

gg

Well that defeats the concept of multi uses of the valve from my understanding.
If trying to use that valve for a grapple for example, you do not want pressure opening the jaws while clamped on to fairly heavy log or whatever. Also would mean not using the loader valve if I understand what you said.

 

[Gordon Gould]

Well that defeats the concept of multi uses of the valve from my understanding.
If trying to use that valve for a grapple for example, you do not want pressure opening the jaws while clamped on to fairly heavy log or whatever. Also would mean not using the loader valve if I understand what you said.

It seems like you did not understand. It was difficult for me to explain - sorry I couldn't do better. It is in fact a normal Double Acting valve used to control double acting cylinders like in a grapple. I was describing what happens if you want to control a single acting cylinder like on my mower with a D/A valve.

gg