RTV won't turn over

[bczoom]

RTV won\'t turn over

OK Guys,

Here's a tough one.

My RTV won't turn over below about 20 degrees.

Makes all the appropriate clicks and stuff from relays but the starter won't engage.

Now, the weird parts.
If I apply the block heater for awhile, it'll start.
Sometimes, if I move the gear selector all over the place a few times, I can get it to start.

What I've done so far (and other notes).
- Battery is fine. Good and strong.
- I don't think it could be a fuse or anything since I can eventually get it to start.
- The neutral safety switch checks out OK (0 ohms in neutral).
- Main battery lead to starter is clean and tight.
- The little wire to the starter checks good at required 6V.
- All wiring connections to all relays, switches... all check OK.

So, no fix yet.
No clue as to where to go from here.

Once it starts, it's good for the rest of the day.
It is stored indoors but in an unheated building.

Any ideas?
Brian

 

[FL_Cracker]

Re: RTV won\'t turn over

Maybe you have a little water or dampness in the starter relay that keeps them from locking in. Once it warms up the contacts connect and starter turns over. Then when it sits all night the contacts freeze again and won't move...??????

Good luck

Charles

 

[bczoom]

Re: RTV won\'t turn over

Hey Charles,

To my knowledge (which is less than this post... /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif), the only relay directly related to starting is for the engine stop solenoid which is for turning the fuel on/off. I have disconnected, inspected... each relay but nothing obvious. Still doesn't make sense about it working once it gets heat.

Brian

 

[patrickg]

Re: RTV won\'t turn over

Did you consider sticktion in the bendix due to thiickening of any lubricants at reduced temps?

The water freezing and thawing idea is a good one. I had a similar winter problem with a generator equipped car. Due to chance, some melting snow or frost (maybe condensation) would collect and drip onto the commutator and insulate the brushes from contact. So you start the car and get indications of no charging but driving less that 15 miles would cure the problem so you couldn't hope to find it. Next time the same problem. Once I stumbled across the cause, I started using de-icer spray on it as soon as I got the indication of NO CHARGING.

Tech note: Checking a switch, relay, or other electrical contactor that in use carries considerable current is best done with some other method than an Ohm meter or continuity tester. Contacts that may read 0.0 Ohms as measured with a meter may in fact not work well at high currrents as required to crank an engine.

A better way is to connect a volt meter across the contacts and try to crank the engine (sends considerable current through the contacts.) If the voltage essentially reads zero while cranking then contact resistance is quite low. If you get a fairly high reading this indicates high contact resistance. MOre than a few tenths of a volt indicates bad contacts.

/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gifPat /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[bczoom]

Re: RTV won\'t turn over

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Did you consider sticktion in the bendix due to thiickening of any lubricants at reduced temps?)</font>

Pat, please work with me here... If I recall correctly, sticktion is the property of 2 items that are initially "stuck" together and require extra effort to release before the more smoothly interact. Is that correct? If so, would that be enough to completely stop the bendix?

I am now wondering about the latter part of your post. Re. the tech note, I did replace (and sorry, forgot to mention) that I did replace the neutral safety switch as it was the only electric component besides the starter itself that I could find that could be affected by heat.

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( A better way is to connect a volt meter across the contacts and try to crank the engine (sends considerable current through the contacts.) If the voltage essentially reads zero while cranking then contact resistance is quite low. If you get a fairly high reading this indicates high contact resistance. MOre than a few tenths of a volt indicates bad contacts.)</font>

Which contacts do I use for this test? (sorry, I'm electrically challenged). Will this test be checking the starter?

Brian

 

[PBMAX]

Re: RTV won\'t turn over

just a thougth but if you really think it is due to moisture try spraying the contacts with a NON-Conductive water replelling substance (usually silicone spray types). That used to work for me on my VW Baja I had in highschool. The distributor would fill with water on rainy days. If I new it was going to rain I'd spray the points and it'd crank with no problems. If nothing else maybe you can rule out it being moisture...

 

[Green_Center]

Re: RTV won\'t turn over

I am more computer geek than mechanic, but I would take out the starter and leave it in the house for the night. Next morning put it back on and try to start RTV cold with a warm starter. This would at least rule out something freezing in the starter itself.

Also, has the dealer come across anything like you are seeing.

Good luck solving this problem.

 

[Ricochet]

Re: RTV won\'t turn over

I looked into this last week and it is cold weather voltage drop...use a "booster" battery along with your standard battery. Hopefully that will do the trick.

 

[bczoom]

Re: RTV won\'t turn over

Green Center.

Good idea. I should have tried that.

The dealer has ordered me a new starter.

Jippy - I have already replaced the OEM with the biggest deep cycle battery I could fit. I have tried with 2 batteries connected but that didn't do anything.

When it did finally turn over, there was no indication the battery wasn't at full strength.

Let me get the new starter in then try on the next cold day.

 

[Ricochet]

Re: RTV won\'t turn over

OK, hopefully a new starter will fix the problem...good luck.

 

[bczoom]

Re: RTV won\'t turn over

Me too. I'm near my wits end on this one.
I've checked everything I could using volts and ohms and all checks good, everywhere... I'm hoping it's something inside the starter and I can get going again.

 

[5030]

Re: RTV won\'t turn over

I am glad computer geeks don't farm.

 

[bczoom]

Re: RTV won\'t turn over

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I am glad computer geeks don't farm. )</font>

Daryl,
What do you mean by that? What's wrong with pulling the starter for a night to see if internal freezing is the problem?

BTW - Computer "geeks" do farm... /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

[5030]

Re: RTV won\'t turn over

Got your attention didn't I. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

You are right of course. You have to be a computer geek to farm today. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[bczoom]

Re: RTV won\'t turn over

Follow-up and resolution.

It's something in the starter.
I popped a new one in Tuesday night.
I tried yesterday morning and same today. Both days the temp has been cold enough whereby the no-turnover condition would have occurred. Starts right up now!!!

Glad to have 'er running again /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[DarinRay]

Re: RTV won\'t turn over

Glad to hear the good news. Enjoy. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Darin