Rotary Cutter Rotary cutter: pull type vs hitch

[Soundguy]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Tongue weight is the down pressure exerted on the tongue of the tractor, not the amount of weight pulled by the tongue.
)</font>

No argument there.. however.. the dealer even told me that for my heaviest drawbar loads.. to use the 3pt drawbar.. not the swinging drawbar.. for exactly why imentioned.. to keep the swinging drawbar which is mounted to the bottom of the diffy, from ripping the bottom of the diffy off the tractor...

Soundguy

 

[Soundguy]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( You can't really adjust your mowing height by raising and lowering a 3pt. )</font>

Um... yeahright /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

You most certaintly CAN adjust your mowing height with the 3pt hitch controls.

If you have your toplink adjusted correctly you should be able to fairly accurately adjust mow height., assuming your tractor has position control, and play inthe toplink connection.

With my 3pt mower tail wheels on the ground, I have 4" of "adjustment" over the front of the mower ( pivoting on the rear wheels ), before the mower rests onthe ground.. or the toplink bottoms out and lifts the mower. That yeilds a cut from about 3" to 7" before I would have to adjust the toplink for a different range. For my pasture clipping.. that works out great.

Soundguy

 

[BB_TX]

As Soundguy says, you can definitely change your mowing height with the 3ph. I never change the height of my rear wheel. But with the rear wheel riding on the ground, I lower the 3ph to mow my upper pasture ( where I want it short) and raise the 3ph with the wheel still on the ground for the lower pasture where I mow it higher just to keep it knocked down for weed control.

 

[N80]

Once again, I'm a noob and have no room to dispute what you say, but also once again, the manuals for 3pt hitch mowers indicate that you adjust your cut height by adjusting the rear wheel. It is certainly handy to have some additional control at the hitch.

Regardless, with the JD tag along I'll be trying, the ram will lift the mowing height significantly more than 4 to 5 inches, probably close to 18-20" (that's on a large tractor with a fairly high hitch though).

As a noob this has been an interesting thread. There are so many opinions that come with great authority but that are in direct opposition to one another. It can be hard to sort out what's what.

My conclusion, based on what I've read here, is that people seem to be extraordinarily passionate about what type of mower to use while the facts (or what seem to be facts) don't indicate significant enough differences to support such polarized positions. Fortunatley this also indicates that I'm unlikely to go way wrong either way.

Here is my current plan.

1) Try out the old JD 7' tag along with hydraulic adjustment. If it does well, end of story. Its free and I'll just use it.

2) If it works well but is hard for me to maneuver, I'll look into a small 3pt mower for tighter work to use in addition to it.

3) If it works well and handles well but cuts roughly (not aesthtically pleasing) I'll use it but may add a finish mower for the flat even areas around the cabin.

4) If it is unsatisfactory due to insufficient tractor HP, then I'l have to make the really hard decision in terms of 3pt vs pull type. But I'm leaning towards pull type, based on what I've read here, on my brother-in-law's advice and on seeing him in action with his various pull-types.

 

[BB_TX]

The manuals generally state what you say. They recommend setting the rear wheel to the height you want and then adjust the 3ph so that the front of the cutter is slightly lower than the rear. The reasoning is that the blades cut at the front of the deck and are above the cut grass at the rear. If the front of the deck were higher than the rear, the blades would cut at the front of the deck and again at the rear. Theoretically that means the cutter is having to work harder and less effeciently. And I generally do run the front of my deck lower than the rear. But I can raise it level with seemingly no loss of power. And that is how I adjust my cutting height. I haven't actually measured it but I would guess I can change the height about 3" without the front being higher than the rear.

 

[Soundguy]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( but also once again, the manuals for 3pt hitch mowers indicate that you adjust your cut height by adjusting the rear wheel )</font>

You do have to set your rear wheels. to get in the ballpark max/min range of where you want to cut.. then it's the 3pt lift that does the fine control. as i said. once setup.. i can cut as low as 3" or as high as 7" without readjusting.. etc. that re-adjust would be toplink and tailwheels.. etc.

The opinions are not directly oposed.. there's just a little bit more to mowing than what is in the black and white 3 page manual..

Soundguy

 

[N80]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( You do have to set your rear wheels. to get in the ballpark max/min range of where you want to cut.. then it's the 3pt lift that does the fine control. as i said. once setup.. i can cut as low as 3" or as high as 7" without readjusting.. etc. that re-adjust would be toplink and tailwheels..etc.)</font>

Makes sense. Again, though, with the pull type you can do the full range of adjustment from the driver's seat, while moving and mowing.

And in regard to wheel placement, the pivot point of the wheel assembly on the units I've seen is not over the wheels, it is up on the deck, in some cases fairly near the gear box. With the pivot point there, your adjustment does not angle the deck as much as it would if the pivot point was back over the wheels. This is particularly true of the JD I'll be trying.


</font><font color="blue" class="small">( The opinions are not directly oposed.. )</font>

Well,um, yes they are. Not all, but plenty of them are. Just look back at issues like 'backing', 'terrain handling', 'weight distribution' etc. Diametric is the word that comes to mind.

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( there's just a little bit more to mowing than what is in the black and white 3 page manual..)</font>

Of course. That's why I'm here benefiting from the collective wisdom and correcting my misconceptions. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Tommorow I'll have the owners manual to the Kubota L4400 in my hand. Friday I'll be mowing.

Help me with another thing. I'm confused on attachment points. I understand the three point. I think I understand the basic hitch below the three point. But I also see (on some of my bother-in-laws machines) a bar connecting the two lower 3pt arms. I'm assuming this is a drawbar. Can a pull type mower be hitched to this type of drawbar? You mentioned that the 3pt may be even stronger than the regular hitch. If so, this would give the pull type mower significant adjustability. It would allow you to raise and lower the mower through a full range AND set the deck at the desired angle.

 

[LeRoi]

A couple of things to keep in mind if you use the bar between the two lower links of your three point hitch, BTW the other bar that you call the basic hitch is the drawbar, moving the attachment point rearward may make your pto shaft too short, and you won't have any way to put down pressure on the bar except the weight of the cutter. If you drop the rear of the cutter in a hole, it could let the front of the cutter raise up and bind the pto shaft or throw something at you.
As always YMMV
Leroy

 

[N80]

Yeah, I wondered about the PTO shaft. But I don't understand the part about the down pressure on the bar.

 

[Soundguy]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Yeah, I wondered about the PTO shaft. But I don't understand the part about the down pressure on the bar. )</font>

The 'normal' connection point on a drawn mower would most likely be the 'swinging' ( fixed or not, under diffy, etc.. ) drawbar.

Some tractors actually do not have a swinging drawbar. and only have the 3pt drawbar.

Yes.. you could hook a drawn mower to the 3pt drawbar... Now.. in doing that, as the other poster mentioned, if the rear of the mower went down, the front of the mower would go ut.. and that would lift the 3pt arms, as most tractors do not have down pressure on the 3pt lift.. only 'lift'. To combat this.. you would use drawbar stays to hold the 3pt lift in a fixed position, and also sway bars to keek the bar from moving side to side. in stabilizing the bar in this manner.. you loose the 'lift' functionality.. but does make it safer.. as you won't put the pto in a bind.. etc.

Soundguy

 

[Soundguy]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Makes sense. Again, though, with the pull type you can do the full range of adjustment from the driver's seat, while moving and mowing.
)</font>

Not on all. Many drawn type mowers still use manual jack screws for rear wheel elevation... It's a money saving issue vs. hyds.. etc. remotes.. etc.

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( ( The opinions are not directly oposed.. )

Well,um, yes they are. Not all, but plenty of them are. Just look back at issues like 'backing', 'terrain handling', 'weight distribution' etc. Diametric is the word that comes to mind.
)</font>

The point you are missing is they are not direct comparisons.. but compairing different aspects of the same function. For instance.. the issue of backing up. 2 people may like 2 different style mowers.. and both say they back up better ( 3pt vs drawn ). Look at the point of view of the 2 people. Person with the 3pt may be refering to the fact that he can back up over a dropoff .. and the mower doesn't drop off... person 2 may be refering to the fact that he can make a smoother/cleaner corner than a mounted mower. Neither are wrong.. they are not making an apples to apples comparison.. they are actually compairing 2 different aspects of a complex issue.

Tell you what. You can think whatever you want. Go out and buy 50 or 60 thousand dollars worth of tractors and mowers and equipment /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif.. then use them for years.. and then come back and let us know what we are doing wrong....... those of us that have that kind of stuff parked in our barn will be a bit more receptive then /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Soundguy

 

[N80]

Edit: Sorry about the red font. Don't know why its there. Must've done something wrong with the mark-up.

<font color="blue">( Not on all. Many drawn type mowers still use manual jack screws for rear wheel elevation... It's a money saving issue vs. hyds.. etc. remotes.. etc.)</font>

Quite right, we've been over that a number of times.

<font color="blue">( The point you are missing is they are not direct comparisons.. but compairing different aspects of the same function.)</font>

I'm not missing any point at all. When discussing general use, the fact that there are specific qualifiers does not change the general application.


<font color="blue">( Tell you what. You can think whatever you want. Go out and buy 50 or 60 thousand dollars worth of tractors and mowers and equipment /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif.. then use them for years.. and then come back and let us know what we are doing wrong....... those of us that have that kind of stuff parked in our barn will be a bit more receptive then /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif)</font>

Translation: Your opinion is indisputable, other's are suspect. Thanks, that's such a rarity on the internet (read sarcasm). I've appreciated your opinion and the ones at variance with it, but to pretend that there haven't been different, and at times confusing opinion, is ridiculous. As I've stated before, I'm just trying to figure this all out.

If you'd kindly read back to the beginning of my post you'd understand the conflict of opinion I'm dealing with. I have, in fact, at my side and disposal (next door to my property), a seasoned professional farmer and tractor mechanic with hundreds of thousands of dollars of tractors and heavy equipment and a full shop for maintaining them. So if we're going to trot that sort of thing out as a trump card then so be it. (Consider yourself trumped.)

I'm ashamed that this has turned nasty, but the attitude in your last post, Soundguy, was inappropriate and uncalled for and to date, unprecedented in my dealings with this web site.

I appreciate all the info folks. Like I said, I'll figure this out. And I may make some mistakes, I suspect we all have. When I do, I'll let you all know. <font color="black">

 

[Bird]

OK, you don't like red; I made it blue. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[Soundguy]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Translation: Your opinion is indisputable, other's are suspect. )</font>

Nope.. not what I said at all. What I said is that opinion is one thing.... experience is another. You have lots of people giving you opinions right now.. tak all of our opinions and head to the store... our opinions and a dollar should be enough to get you a cup of coffee. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Now.. after you have some tractor hours under your belt, you will have experience. 1 hour of good experience will beat a bucketfull of opinion, hands down.

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I'm ashamed that this has turned nasty, but the attitude in your last post, Soundguy, was inappropriate and uncalled for and to date, unprecedented in my dealings with this web site.
)</font>

No attitude intended.. just being matter of fact.. Dancing around the issue and being PC won't doo you much good when you are laying a wad of hard earned cash down to buy a piece of equipment. You may thing I'm being hard on you.. but ... The advice i'm giving you is to watch out for advice given to you! As you point out.. this is the internet... If you keep asking.. I imagine you can rack up hundreds of different opinions and recomendations on what to buy. If I were you.. I'd look around at what others in your geographical are are using to mow similar sized, shaped parcels of land. That will be experience talking.. not opinion.....Now.. if you want a verbal beating.. I'm guessing you can find it in the chinese tractor sub.. that's a known 'arena' down there.

Soundguy

 

[Soundguy]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( If you'd kindly read back to the beginning of my post you'd understand the conflict of opinion I'm dealing with. I have, in fact, at my side and disposal (next door to my property), a seasoned professional farmer and tractor mechanic with hundreds of thousands of dollars of tractors and heavy equipment and a full shop for maintaining them )</font>

And he's the guy with the free mower right? I see so far that you are getting recomendations to use it and be happy.. it's setting right there.. right?

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( So if we're going to trot that sort of thing out as a trump card then so be it. (Consider yourself trumped.)
)</font>

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( was inappropriate and uncalled for )</font>

I'd say that was what your comment was.... /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
I'm trying to help.. you are the one calling names ...


Soundguy