Neat 1500
Platinum Member
if you say it smells really diesely i wonder if the govenor or something in the pump is causing this? mine fired up without a whisp of anything so i guess i was lucky
Rolled my EX3200 and need help
- Thread starter TDR
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Brake Weight
Silver Member
My ym2000 has a decompression lever. I'm assuming the model in question does not, otherwise this would/should/could never happen during cranking.
I think these injector test results have screwed up the trouble shooting process. If the idle changed on all cylinders then the compression is fine. Yet it's spewing unburnt diesel out of the stack. Don't the injectors have a constant pressure on them during operation and then the mechanical pump cycles around to each injector giving a few hundred more psi to actually overcome and open the injector to spray fuel into the combustion chamber. If so, by cracking any one of the feed lines would bleed this constant pressure off and thusly stop the flow of fuel.
It may be best to find someone local that can come to your tractor and see it running. It's hard to diagnose a mechanical issue through letters. Over the phone it an be listened to. In person it can be seen, heard, touched, and smelled. My uncle owns/operates an ATV repair shop, has for at least 25 years now. He can do it in person within seconds with it in the back of a truck.
I'm in no way a diesel mechanic, my motor knowledge is from 5 years working for my uncle on gas(rice) burners. I'm starting to learn diesels one day at a time, usually as mine breaks and from TBN problems like this. I do think an actual compression test with a gauge is in order.
I think these injector test results have screwed up the trouble shooting process. If the idle changed on all cylinders then the compression is fine. Yet it's spewing unburnt diesel out of the stack. Don't the injectors have a constant pressure on them during operation and then the mechanical pump cycles around to each injector giving a few hundred more psi to actually overcome and open the injector to spray fuel into the combustion chamber. If so, by cracking any one of the feed lines would bleed this constant pressure off and thusly stop the flow of fuel.
It may be best to find someone local that can come to your tractor and see it running. It's hard to diagnose a mechanical issue through letters. Over the phone it an be listened to. In person it can be seen, heard, touched, and smelled. My uncle owns/operates an ATV repair shop, has for at least 25 years now. He can do it in person within seconds with it in the back of a truck.
I'm in no way a diesel mechanic, my motor knowledge is from 5 years working for my uncle on gas(rice) burners. I'm starting to learn diesels one day at a time, usually as mine breaks and from TBN problems like this. I do think an actual compression test with a gauge is in order.
If it has bent rods they will still ignite to some extent which it is doing that to but a lesser degree they will still lower the rpm.
Watching the tach carefully would be a way to tell if all were the same w/o a comp test and an incomplete burn will cause excessive smoke and smell.
Like has been mentioned diesel starters are pretty powerful and are geared way down even car engines will bend rods surprisingly easily especially when there is a lot of fluid in the cyl the rod will be on a sharper angle and they will give believe it. good luck
I have seen cars with cranks and rods bent so bad from sucking in water you could feel it in the clutch pedal fwtw.
Watching the tach carefully would be a way to tell if all were the same w/o a comp test and an incomplete burn will cause excessive smoke and smell.
Like has been mentioned diesel starters are pretty powerful and are geared way down even car engines will bend rods surprisingly easily especially when there is a lot of fluid in the cyl the rod will be on a sharper angle and they will give believe it. good luck
I have seen cars with cranks and rods bent so bad from sucking in water you could feel it in the clutch pedal fwtw.
955Lincoln
Gold Member
Good point, I was wondering if that was possible after I posted.
Good observation on the decomp that would have saved it for sure but even if he had one (we dont know yet) he may not have even thought of it in the excitement of flipping it back over and all?
Agree on the comp test. :thumbsup:
Brake Weight
Silver Member
Car Doc said:Good observation on the decomp that would have saved it for sure but even if he had one (we dont know yet) he may not have even thought of it in the excitement of flipping it back over and all?
Agree on the comp test. :thumbsup:
Even with a fully charged battery (I have to put mine on a charger every other month or so beings I work a 21/21 day rotation and don't run it some weeks home), mine won't turn over with out the decompression lever down. Kind of a weak starter setup, but I'll never have bent valves from it being too stout.
Hi guys, finally had a chance to get back to look at the tractor. I have pulled both the air cleaner assembly and the entire muffler/pipe assembly. It is now pure air in and open exhaust out. When I run the motor it now "pulses" the smoke out as if it is one cylinder is the culprit. I have run the motor for over 2 hours today and the pulsing smoke remains steady and with the same volume.....it looks like I am sending smoke signals. I do not see where there could be any air intake restrictions, I have blown out all of the fuel lines again. The muffler also showed no sign of oil having entered it.
So it must be down to the two final possibilities of too much fuel to a specific cylinder or a cylinder which has a compression problem? All of my compression gauges are for gas engines... So i need to buy one for this engine. What pressure should the gauge read up to? I have visited my "local" dealer and explained the situation. I fear they are not confident about their mechanics ability ... So I will keep looking for local expert that i can have listen to the engine as well.
Open to more suggestions and thanks!!
So it must be down to the two final possibilities of too much fuel to a specific cylinder or a cylinder which has a compression problem? All of my compression gauges are for gas engines... So i need to buy one for this engine. What pressure should the gauge read up to? I have visited my "local" dealer and explained the situation. I fear they are not confident about their mechanics ability ... So I will keep looking for local expert that i can have listen to the engine as well.
Open to more suggestions and thanks!!
Domush
Platinum Member
Any chance of posting a video of this happening? I'm sure there are more than a few experts who frequent here. Sometimes an easily overlooked sound speaks more than words ever could.
Good luck finding a solution. I'll be watching, as mine smokes as well (light grey smoke). I'll be removing my exhaust to see if I have a similar, limited to one cylinder, issue.
Any chance of a stuck or gooped up exhaust valve? That would certainly kill the compression as well as prevent complete burn. It would also be limited to one cylinder.
Have you tried using SeaFoam on it? That may be enough to get a proper seal of the valve if it is just gunk in there. I hear water does roughly the same thing, but SeaFoam is made with oil, so it burns in place of fuel.
SeaFoam how-to for diesels
Good luck finding a solution. I'll be watching, as mine smokes as well (light grey smoke). I'll be removing my exhaust to see if I have a similar, limited to one cylinder, issue.
Any chance of a stuck or gooped up exhaust valve? That would certainly kill the compression as well as prevent complete burn. It would also be limited to one cylinder.
Have you tried using SeaFoam on it? That may be enough to get a proper seal of the valve if it is just gunk in there. I hear water does roughly the same thing, but SeaFoam is made with oil, so it burns in place of fuel.
SeaFoam how-to for diesels
runningbird
Gold Member
did you ever pull the valve cover?
Neat 1500
Platinum Member
yep 1 of the cylinders is the culprit. pull the valve cover, inpect for too tight, bent push rods etc, compression test then would be the next step i guess. if thats OK then it can only be a broken oil ring or faulty injector pump?
Hello all, Hopefully back to the barn tonight. I will pull the rocker cover and do a visual for anything that is apparent under the cover. This tractor does not have any decompression levers..just turn the key to start (and smoke).
Do diesel engines run a solid lifter or hydraulic lifter style valve train? I am still waiting for my service manual.
Thanks as always for everyones patience and help.
Do diesel engines run a solid lifter or hydraulic lifter style valve train? I am still waiting for my service manual.
Thanks as always for everyones patience and help.
6thgpSF
Gold Member
do'nt know about all diesels but my 1610d has solid lifters,,,russ
Domush
Platinum Member
Mine are pushrod based. Adjusting them is very easy on this. .006" on mine. Not sure if that is common among all of them.
At the very least, if you can't wiggle it when it should be loose, you know it is getting stuck on something. If a lifter stays tight, I'd try the Seafoam before adjusting it, as it may be goop and you may be overadjusting it instead of fixing it.
At the very least, if you can't wiggle it when it should be loose, you know it is getting stuck on something. If a lifter stays tight, I'd try the Seafoam before adjusting it, as it may be goop and you may be overadjusting it instead of fixing it.
Hello all, my newest problem has become finding the specs for this engine. Surprisingly, I cannot go to the Cub Cadet or MTD website and order the service repair manual for the EX3200. I have been told by both organizations the manual is only available for dealers. My dealer (who does not have a diesel mechanic on staff) confirmed this and said "sorry". Tonight I pulled the rocker cover..all looked well. Cranked the engine with a dial indicator on each individual rocker arms and all were equal. I then pulled the complete rocker arm assembly..all looked well. I pulled the push rods and rolled on my marble flat table...all rolled perfect. I put a straight edge across all of the valve stems as they are now in a fully seated position (no rocker arms installed)...the straight edge spanned all 6 at once and all were level. Unless there is damage at the valve seats all valve stems appeared ok. I have not been able to find a diesel valued compresion gauge locally yet so no compression numbers yet.
Here is the new discovery. I pulled the exhaust manifold off. Cylinder 1 (front) has a little black soot. Cylinder 3 (rear) has a little black soot. Cylinder 2 has that same black soot but looks as if it was sprayed with a thick coat of clear coat paint. I started the engine for 5 seconds and number 2 cylinder is definitely the culprit. The clear coat feels tacky but not wet like it is freshly coming in. I may put it back together and run to see if it burns off. If it does not end up burning off i have to disassemble the engine any way. Anybody have thoughts?
Here is the new discovery. I pulled the exhaust manifold off. Cylinder 1 (front) has a little black soot. Cylinder 3 (rear) has a little black soot. Cylinder 2 has that same black soot but looks as if it was sprayed with a thick coat of clear coat paint. I started the engine for 5 seconds and number 2 cylinder is definitely the culprit. The clear coat feels tacky but not wet like it is freshly coming in. I may put it back together and run to see if it burns off. If it does not end up burning off i have to disassemble the engine any way. Anybody have thoughts?
I read a post somewhere on one the the Yanmar/Cub Cadets and they were talking about manuals. This guy was looking to get one for his tractor, said it didn't come with one. This other fellow said his came in a tool box or some kind of container on the tractor. Can't remember exactly where it was located. Bottom line, the man looking for the manual did find one on his tractor in where ever that loaction was. You have probably checked all sights but just thought it worth sharing.
Getting fluid into a cylinder isn't going to bend valves or push rods think about it. A compression test is the only way to tell positively if a cylinder is down.
My guess is one is about 3/16-1/4" down and will be obvious if you can make references from one to another.
That is about how bad I usually see them and on a gasser that will make them miss but a diesel its a huge drop in compression and they need that to ignite the fuel they will miss a lot worse.
edit: The bad thing is if it has bent a rod and I will stake my reputation on this - the crank will be bent also and the engine will have to come out.
My guess is one is about 3/16-1/4" down and will be obvious if you can make references from one to another.
That is about how bad I usually see them and on a gasser that will make them miss but a diesel its a huge drop in compression and they need that to ignite the fuel they will miss a lot worse.
edit: The bad thing is if it has bent a rod and I will stake my reputation on this - the crank will be bent also and the engine will have to come out.
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Hi all. Finally a break in the work schedule so now back to the tractor. First a couple of updates on past challenges: bought the compression tester for diesel motors but lacked the adapter for the 3TN motor so that is a bust but did find a 3TN service manual on the Internet.
The #2 connecting rod is bent. Several of you experts were confident of a rod being bent and you were correct. My humble apologies for skirting around and being hopeful of a simple fix. After pulling the cylinder head and hand rotating the motor it was obvious #2 piston was lower than the other 2. The dial indicator validated it was in fact .070" lower. Pulled the piston and found the rod has a distinct bend in it. I will order the parts Tuesday (a rod is $225 and the head gasket $105) and put back together next weekend. Fortunately I could get to the rod cap through the small access plate on the pan so I did not have to break the tractor in half.
I did document the whole process with step by step photos and tips in case anyone experiences the same mistake. I will post something after I complete the repairs. Thanks again to all.
The #2 connecting rod is bent. Several of you experts were confident of a rod being bent and you were correct. My humble apologies for skirting around and being hopeful of a simple fix. After pulling the cylinder head and hand rotating the motor it was obvious #2 piston was lower than the other 2. The dial indicator validated it was in fact .070" lower. Pulled the piston and found the rod has a distinct bend in it. I will order the parts Tuesday (a rod is $225 and the head gasket $105) and put back together next weekend. Fortunately I could get to the rod cap through the small access plate on the pan so I did not have to break the tractor in half.
I did document the whole process with step by step photos and tips in case anyone experiences the same mistake. I will post something after I complete the repairs. Thanks again to all.
