Road Maintenance

[Frisbee]

Looking for some advice.

I live 1.1 miles up a private mountain road outside of Boise Idaho. The linked video shows my commute as I leave the county-maintained road and enter our private road. As you can see, the private road is not in great shape and hard on vehicles. There is a local resident that does all of the snow removal, and no one does any kind of grading or road maintenance. We have lived here for 3 years and knew that we would eventually have to help deal with snow removal, and I assumed I would get a plow truck set up like everyone else on the hill. Every time I blow snow I measure how much snow we received for that storm, in 2019/2020 I measured 39” total, in 2020/2021 I measured 96” total and in 2021/2022 100” with the 8” snow we received today.

We received 20” of snow over a few days in April this year after I had taken my snow blower off my BX and the snow tires off 2 of the 4 rigs. The person that does snow removal did nothing because the transfer case was out of his truck, the other person that kind of helps had taken his plow off his truck and the other 20 or so residents that have plow trucks to deal with their property did nothing so we had a mess getting in and out and was mandatory chain up for a week. It is beyond me why those that can, did not help with the road, but they don’t and would rather chain up than run their plow down. I do not want my wife or teenage kids to have to chain up to get in and out and I enjoy doing things like snow removal so I decided it was time for me to quit paying someone else and get set up to deal with snow removal by next season.

One thing that I have noticed is how much time my neighbor spends moving the snow after every few plows to make room to push the next storm, he is constantly out on his bulldozer and backhoe moving snow. I have heard over and over that it is faster to push snow than to blow it, but I think if you factored in the time spent moving snow this is not true at all. I am seriously thinking about buying a 50ish horse power tractor and a pull behind 3 point snow blower and a plow on the FEL. Does anyone see a problem with this?

And for the biggest reason for this long winded post, if I did this, could I maintain this road with a land plane? I have read a bunch about land planes and watched numerous videos. But everyone is always grading a flat straight road. According to local folk lore the phone lines for our area and buried very shallow in the ditch along the road, and every time anyone has tried to clean the ditches out the phone end up going out. I really do not think it is possible to set the road up for proper drainage, but I don’t mind and in fact enjoy playing with tractors and if I had the right equipment would gladly grade the road several times a year.

I have a BX2680 and an L2501 with a backhoe that I do not think have the power to do this. According to my F350 offroad menu, the steepest part of this road is 11 degrees. I cannot see why a tractor would not be the best tool for this, but think it needs way more power than my current rigs. More than likely I would not buy another Kubota, I am considering going to the TYM dealer because of price and availability.

I would love to hear any comments or insight anyone has. 20” in April was annoying, 8” is May re-motivated me on this plan.

 

[kthompson]

That is a long 1.1 miles! Why a person with equipment would not help? Can be many reasons but to me what looks fair is each person to pay the proper amount to pay even if a neighbor for keeping the road up and not a happen chance system as it sounds you have now.

I think it would be good for all who live there to meet and have honest discussion on the need. Have a person who really knows roads give honest advice on what the road needs along with cost. Keep materials and labor separate for it may be there are those who will provide the labor, but they should not bear the cost of materials. As to the phone lines here we can call 811 and they will locate such as phone lines, no indication on depth but only about where the lines are.

Understand it is a private road and think this will vary by region or even county sometimes a county will help with a private road with a lot of residents on it. Had a funny thing to happen here as there is a private road (easement) across our land to three other owners. When we moved onto, I began scraping it and keeping it bedded. Came home one day to realize a road plow had plowed it. Had done another truly private road on private property it also. Called the county and asked and turned out in past times they had been plowing these roads and due to liability took back to plowing them. Now they are working to pave all dirt roads.

 

[thclimer]

If you can afford it I'd be looking at a cabbed tractor with a front blower. With as much elevation loss along the sides of that road I would sure think you could blow the snow off never to be seen again. If you need to scrape in a few places a rear blade that can be turned around would give you some flexibility as well. Your idea of a pull blower could work also I just never liked the idea of driving over the snow before you blow it, also I'm not too sure how it would work with all the turns getting into the corners as I think a front blower would be more maneuverable for getting into little niches.

I would also think a land plane would be a good implement to maintain the road and your rear blade could aide in ditch cleaning.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Man, I would love to maintain that road.

4 things that I personally would be considering.
These are just a list of items. These brand names or equivalent should be fine I would think
60HP cab tractor at a minimum and all the goodies you can get. That includes a top & tilt set for the 3pt hitch.
Every factory hydraulic function control you can get, you will need more.
Rear pull type snow blower
8' Land Pride RBT4096 with hydraulic offset and blade angle.
7' Road Boss land plane grading scraper.

Good luck and please keep us informed.

 

[jaxs]

I.f 20 other residents means 20 households,you don't have a road problem, you have a neighbor problem. I knew a guy in a similar situation and neighbors didn't think they needed to pay for maintaining road since they weren't experiencing any problems. He stopped doing anything until road got so bad only a 4x4 could make it in and out. When neighbors asked him to pull them out of ditch,he wouldn't do it and parroted their line from the past "I don't have any problem getting in and out". He continued taking his wife and picking her up where she parked her car at a neighnor's place on paved public road. Neighbors hired someone to patch road but didn't spend enough to last long. When they asked to pay for rock if he spread it,he refused and said "I don't have a problem getting in and out". Neighbors eventually agreed to pay him for 100% time and material maintaining road and kicked their own butts for not sharing cost instead of ridding the horse to death.

 

[JJT]

It's time for a formal neighborhood agreement/HOA. Everyone should be paying their fair share. I can fully understand why the person doing all the work finally gets frustrated and throws up his hands.

 

[Snobdds]

I would spend the summer getting good ditches put in that prevent the water from running down the middle of the road. Then lay some rock and get a base built up. If you want to get fancy, lay some dupont groundgrid. The problem for you is the ground is still frozen even if the snow melts in the winter, and the water has to go somewhere. Getting that water off your road should be the main focus. Good roads have good ditches.

A tractor of at least 60hp with chains will be needed for a drive like that.

 

[LS Tractor Owner]

I wish that happened here.... it's been 25 years and still not one red cent towards road maintenance from the neighbors. I will maintain up to my drive, but won go past it.... that's where 6 out of 9 residents are. Two of those neighbors have attempted to "repair" the road..... one of them borrowed an old dozer from his cousin. Talk about an abortion.... the other of the two tried using a back blade on his tiny Kubota to fix what the first one did. He took more gravel off the road than he did to fix anything.

Both of these two have the attitude of "I know what I'm doing", and won't take any suggestions on what to do....

It finally got to the point of me pulling out the original land subdivision print, showing it to them and telling them that there is only an "access easement" going across MY property and that technically, I own that part of the road. I then told them to keep all equipment off MY part of the road, and if they didn't, I would sue them to stop crossing over my land. They got the message and only 'mess' (mess up) past my property marker.

The neighbors on the road before my drive have all said they would split the cost of additional gravel and pay for my fuel. I wish we could get a legal HOA for road maintenance only. This road is a mile and a quarter long.... our drive is 2400' from the main road at the crest of a hill. The rest are all downhill past us. I have also pulled out their stuck vehicles many years ago.... haven't and will not pull them out anymore.

 

[Frisbee]

Thanks for everyone's response, this is what I am needing to hear, keep the specific suggestions coming, they are greatly appreciated. To make a few clarifications:

Most neighbors give the person doing most of the snow removal money yearly. I think he comes out ahead based on what he has told me, although I bet if he considered his time, he is not that far ahead. He is retired, likes to play with equipment and makes a little money to do so, but he is also retirement age and one trip to the hospital for a week or worse during the snow season and April showed me how we would be up here. Up a creek.

What surprised me is there is a number of residence with plow truck set ups to keep there homes open and when Scott was unable to go down they didn't make a few passes. If I had more of a set up than a BX I sure would have. I just got home, we received 8" today and it appears the road was opened with the backhoe based on the tire tracks I saw.

I don't want a neighborhood association, I want to make sure my family can get in and out without relying on anyone else, there is something to be said for living in a place with very few rules. Thats my state, my county and my neighborhood and I want to keep it that way. I would have never moved here if I could not afford to make sure I can get in and out, I understand that is not the case for most my neighbors, but it is for me and I am not concerned with what is fair. I assume if I take over snow removal at some point, some money will come my way.

I have read and read about maintaining roads and assumed there would be comments to fix the road. In my opinion that is not possible, I believe the phone lines are buried shallowly in the ditches, we are 15 miles and 30 - 40 minutes from cell service, there are a lot of older people that live up here I am not going to take down there phone lines for any reason. If a land plane would not upset the road, and improve our commute a little I would gladly run it up and down the road a few times each season.

I think a rear blower and FEL plow gives me the best options, there is no way you could have blown what we received today. The snow is currently driven over a lot before it is plowed now, the current moto around here is gravity will get you down in the morning and it will be plowed before you come home from work. I am not sure one more pass with my tractor before it is cleared is really going to matter. If I am wrong, let me know.

I have a dump trailer and hauled 70,000 lbs of rock in here when I first bought the place to put a new drain field in. If I start doing a little road grading I have thought that I would haul loads up to add to the road. There will be a new thread on the best thing to put down on the road.

 

[airbiscuit]

I live at the end of a 1/2 mile private drive. I have (12) good neighbors, but I think it is a human trait that people don't automatically understand shared responsibility. My neighbor does the snowplowing and I back him up. I send out a payment request that ranges from $20 -$35 for the whole season to plow the main road. Each year a few balked, or didn't pay. The curious thing is that they would pay more than that to have their individual drive plowed each time. Finally I said "seriously you are balking at paying $25 for the whole winter?" If you can find a cheaper option, let me know and we'll all jump on. Now, all but one pay each year. I think they think that if you have your own equipment, it really doesn't cost you anything to do the work.

I also maintain the road each summer. I don't charge anything, but ask the neighbors for $25 each spring so we can buy some gravel. Again a few balked in the past, so I let the road degrade a bit before I collect. Now all but one pay every year (some neighbors pay more than I ask because they appreciate it).

People just don't have a clue what equipment costs, and are just used to driving on roads without a care.

 

[airbiscuit]

I agree with a 50hp - 60hp tractor
I love my rear pull snowblower (you have the advantage of making the first pass going downhill)
Your ditching isn't all that bad (it's the lack of a crown that is causing your erosion)
I would recommend a heavy rear blade with a guide wheel (Woods makes a dandy) to maintain the road surface/crown

 

[oosik]

MtViewRanch - post#4 - hit the nail squarely on the head. EXACTLY what I would recommend. I have a Kubota M6040 - heavy duty Rhino rear blade and heavy duty Land Pride - land plane grading scraper. I also have a mile long gravel driveway.

With the HD rear blade - no need for a blower. I have a couple serious "drop offs" on my driveway also. But NOTHING like your video shows.

As far as equipment costs - the rear blade, $3700 - - the land plane grading scraper, $2250.

You need to get all those families off the dime and help share in the costs. I have unpleasant thought about those types. Doesn't bear repeating here.

 

[deezler]

Your phone lines are essentially just tossed in the ditch on the side of the road? That's rather ridiculous.

Where does the power line come up? The phone lines should be strung along that same utility corridor.

You can't let an old wive's tale about shallow phone lines keep you from properly maintaining a road that badly needs some help, IMO. If the telephone company wants to keep all their paying subscribers, they should be willing to have proper infrastructure in place, no?

But a land-plane should allow you to dress and smooth the road surface effectively, without cutting very deeply. This will make it nice and smooth, until it rains or some snow melts again. You need better ditches, period.

Thanks for sharing the very informative video. Quite the little mountain commune you have going there.

Edit to add that I agree with your plan. A rear blower and front FEL plow on a 50-60 HP tractor with chains should handle that road just fine in some heavy snow, and pull a land-plane and scraper blade well in the summer.

 

[bcp]

Road grader and good operator to clean ditches and fix crown and slope (maybe every 5-10 years). maintain with a land plane, minor repairs with a rear blade.

Bruce

 

[Bill Guenthner]

Your phone lines are essentially just tossed in the ditch on the side of the road? That's rather ridiculous.

Not at all unlikely. Rural cooperatives often run copper phone lines with a walk behind trencher at the edge of the road. When I moved into this house that’s exactly how they ran the phone line from half a mile up the road. Thankfully we now have fiber up on poles.

 

[kthompson]

There is also a major issue to consider by anyone doing a road, liability. There is a small dirt road that is an easement across our land. No idea how many years old it is but it is the only access for the three who own land behind us. Two of those are farm land so decent road is not an issue and there is one house. When we moved here I bought a rear blade suitable to keep the road graded. Was doing so as needed which was not often. Turned out our county took back up plowing the road which confused me it being an easement and talked with them. Yep there are going back to taking care of the road unless I made formal request and maybe other land owners, not to. When I realized they would then be totally liable for condition of the road not only for ease to travel but any condition that could contribute to a wreck or even car repair. That my friend in today's world with neighbors who are not even willing to pay $25 for road care a year is very very possible lawsuit waiting to happen.