Returning batteries for warranty claim

[MMC]

From another Napa article:


I love it when you can use the company's own info against them

I agree with this from some other previous research I have done (this small farm somehow has 35+ batteries scattered about). An automotive battery at 12.0v is almost useless. My rule of thumb is 12.8v is a fully charged battery at rest, without a surface charge present. 12.6v is 75%, 12.4v is 50%, 12.2v is 25%, and 12.0v is...gone.
I have a Midtronics tester and also a clone from Amazon which tests within .1v of my buddy's Snap-on. Worth buying one of these for a commercial operation like Hay-Dude has. And even an old-school carbon pile or resistance type is a good alternative (for a fully charged battery disconnected from the machine).

I personally consider Deka a good choice for my tractors and other diesels, with Interstate a good choice for runner up. There are others, I know.

I also keep maintainers on equipment not in daily use - batteries are just too darn expensive not to...deep cycle an automotive battery a few times and it simply won't come back to 100% even when fairly new...

Without casting doubts on NAPA (I generally like them), someone is not properly trained if they stated a battery at 12.0v is OK. For CCA recommendations, check the operator's manual or a dealer (and go higher).

All just my opinions, naturally.

 

[Hay Dude]

^^ I agree with you. 12V is not enough voltage.
First time batteries were trouble, I was able to add voltage with my RAM Cummins battery jump start kit and it started. Then I took it to my shop a few days later to begin hooking it up to my baler. Batteries dead. Night time temps around 35*
I used my John Deere jump starter (a big shop unit) and was unable to get her to fire over after about 3 attempts. She was puffing smoke out the exhaust and the engine would very briefly almost start.

I’m real tempted to dump the batteries at their front door and go get a new set from another dealer (they were happy to sell me a new set for $390).

My Magnum had a similar problem. It would crank pretty good, but not enough to start. New set of batteries and it fired right up.

 

[MMC]

^^ I agree with you. 12V is not enough voltage.
First time batteries were trouble, I was able to add voltage with my RAM Cummins battery jump start kit and it started. Then I took it to my shop a few days later to begin hooking it up to my baler. Batteries dead. Night time temps around 35*
I used my John Deere jump starter (a big shop unit) and was unable to get her to fire over after about 3 attempts. She was puffing smoke out the exhaust and the engine would very briefly almost start.

I’m real tempted to dump the batteries at their front door and go get a new set from another dealer (they were happy to sell me a new set for $390).

My Magnum had a similar problem. It would crank pretty good, but not enough to start. New set of batteries and it fired right up.

Those situations frustrate all of us. NAPA batteries normally have a good rep, but this is not good local service. Truthfully, depends on your parts needs locally and the relationship you need to have with these guys. Maybe an honest conversation with the manager stating some of the material from the NAPA site on batteries might be in order - no need to get mad, just complicates the issue. He would be foolish to lose a commercial customer and have his shop's reputation damaged in the community over something like this (and his losses are probably covered by the chain on warranty stuff). But if they can't read a voltmeter, I would be uncomfortable dealing with them...

 

[Hay Dude]

Those situations frustrate all of us. NAPA batteries normally have a good rep, but this is not good local service. Truthfully, depends on your parts needs locally and the relationship you need to have with these guys. Maybe an honest conversation with the manager stating some of the material from the NAPA site on batteries might be in order - no need to get mad, just complicates the issue. He would be foolish to lose a commercial customer and have his shop's reputation damaged in the community over something like this (and his losses are probably covered by the chain on warranty stuff). But if they can't read a voltmeter, I would be uncomfortable dealing with them...

I need to copy a photo of the “readouts” they printed for me even says “good” on them…

 

[grsthegreat]

I used to be an Exide guy for batteries, but recently swapped my supplier to Deka. Deka has a remarkably strong track record from all studies ive done, and i got tired from all the acid spilling from the caps on the exide.
Deka are sealed batteries.
I only installed 57 batteries last year, so not a large dealer by any means. But i dont like getting calls at midnight during a stormy power outage with customer saying their genny isnt starting. I need stong, reliable batteries.
from my own experience servicing generators, the Napa batteries have been pretty nice units, pretty dependable. The Napa brand comes from East Penn mfg, just like Deka units. The batteries i have most problem with have been Wallmart branded units. Its amazing how many year old batteries i end up replacing that say Everstart……. Just saying from my experience.

i had installed a brand new set of Interstate batteries in my F350 and only got 2 years use out of them. i also replaced the tractor battery with interstate battery, and that failed in 1 season. I replaced the tractor battery under warranty, as i got that one from Costco. The ford batteries i replaced with Napa batteries. Well see if they last longer. Interstate used to be a good battery. I have my doubts now.

 

[MMC]

I need to copy a photo of the “readouts” they printed for me even says “good” on them…

It might depend on what threshold their store sets on the machine as acceptable. It will obviously be something lower than 100% (but how low is acceptable?). Midtronics seems to be the gold standard for professionals, but I suspect any electronic device can get out of calibration.

I know you've got chargers in your shop. You might charge both of the batteries overnight, put a slight load (maybe a 12v headlight) on them for a moment to deplete any surface charge, and then read actual voltage with an accurate voltmeter. That's a good starting point, even without the Midtronics type of tester. If the two batteries are different markedly in voltage, then one battery is pulling the other down (and also lessening the life of the good one). Then just for grins, put an old fashioned resistance clamp-on tester and see if they fall out of acceptable ranges on a 10 second draw. And, if these are not "closed" cells, a battery hydrometer could be used to check specific gravity (which means I'm old...)

One thing to ease the pain, you're probably just going to get a "prorated" refund even if these are bad. Remember that you start the clock again on good batteries...warranty and life. At least that's what I tell myself as I shell out $350+ for a couple of new batteries, LOL.

 

[MMC]

I used to be an Exide guy for batteries, but recently swapped my supplier to Deka. Deka has a remarkably strong track record from all studies ive done, and i got tired from all the acid spilling from the caps on the exide.
Deka are sealed batteries.
I only installed 57 batteries last year, so not a large dealer by any means. But i dont like getting calls at midnight during a stormy power outage with customer saying their genny isnt starting. I need stong, reliable batteries.
from my own experience servicing generators, the Napa batteries have been pretty nice units, pretty dependable. The Napa brand comes from East Penn mfg, just like Deka units. The batteries i have most problem with have been Wallmart branded units. Its amazing how many year old batteries i end up replacing that say Everstart……. Just saying from my experience.

i had installed a brand new set of Interstate batteries in my F350 and only got 2 years use out of them. i also replaced the tractor battery with interstate battery, and that failed in 1 season. I replaced the tractor battery under warranty, as i got that one from Costco. The ford batteries i replaced with Napa batteries. Well see if they last longer. Interstate used to be a good battery. I have my doubts now.

I agree with all this from my limited (sort of) experience. Deka is in my Generac and all equipment that's "important" around this farm. And I don't care what Consumer Report says, Walmart Everstart batteries are just nowhere close to their equal.

 

[Williy]

This is aveage:

NAPA should have a unit to check to see if the battery
is really good by putting a load on it:

Your alternator wll generate around 13.8 - 14.4v, typically at or just above idle.

willy

 

[Hay Dude]

I have a gizmo I plug into 12V accessory socket that measures voltage. When the batteries were brought back charged overnight at Napa, they read about 12.2-12.4 in the tractor not running. Those would be about dead in my book.
They would turn the starter over fairly well, but as most of you know, diesels need to achieve a certain minimum starter RPM before the engine will fire. She had heavy black smoke at the pipe and wanted to fire, but I think the batts are too weak.

I’m moving on and getting a set of proper batteries. I think there’s a NAPA 1000 CCA model available with same dimensions. We have an independent battery dealer near us that moves a lot of fresh Interstate batteries, too.

 

[crreed67]

Is there another NAPA store to try out within a reasonable distance. I'd be curious to get an opinion from different people in the same company. Wouldn't mention the try at the first NAPA store to them though.

 

[stevem5215]

Best thing you can do for your batteries is to put them on a NOCO charger like this one. You will keep them working at Optimum for the length of the battery life. (which can be 10 years as I've seen from my testing and use) Your money your call. I'm doing it on mine to ensure they last.

Amazon.com

 

[Snobdds]

You need more puish out of that alternator. It needs to charge over 14 volts.

 

[Cycledude]

I had a Walmart battery last an unbelievable 18 years in my Ford 8N, when it finally failed I replaced it with another Walmart battery and so far it’s also working fine.

 

[grsthegreat]

Best thing you can do for your batteries is to put them on a NOCO charger like this one. You will keep them working at Optimum for the length of the battery life. (which can be 10 years as I've seen from my testing and use) Your money your call. I'm doing it on mine to ensure they last.

Amazon.com

I have a Noco10 genius myself. Its been able to resurrect quite a few dead batteries over the years.

 

[Hay Dude]

You need more puish out of that alternator. It needs to charge over 14 volts.

Agree and it may well run over 14 volts. I have only seen it run at idle about 13.4-13.7.
I did not check it at wide open throttle because the last time I ran it, the batteries were not a problem. I didn’t pay attention to voltage.
Since they are dead now, I can’t get an alternator reading at speed.
I’ll jump back on it this week. Baling not a big priority as we have just come off winter here.

Even after overnight charging, there’s just not enough spin up IMO for it to turn over.

 

[Williy]

They say the batteries are fully charged then you must
have a bad cell for them to be so low.

willy

 

[DonRybak]

It's still possible that the alternator is bad. Not so much as charging but modern alternators with built in regulators have an internal diode that prevents the battery from being drained with the engine off. Next time you run the tractor and have the batteries charged up disconnect the battery connection at the alternator. Then next time you go to start the tractor if the batteries are still charged you have found the culprit. Unlike the old time generators that generate electricity just by spinning alternators require some voltage to work. The diode prevents that drain when not in operation. Just my two cents worth.

 

[sixdogs]

Not helpful for your current situation, but next time buy from Costco. Interstate batteries free replacement within 3 years no questions asked

That and Sam's Club. At Costco they replace before I can finish my sentence. Trouble is they often don't carry the big industrial or AGM batteries except on-line.

I get those at Sam's Club and they replace readily as well but it's just a more laborious process to find people that are highly motivated to help you.

 

[JONNY BOYYYE]

900CCA NAPA “Legend” Batteries dated 11/23 are at 12V and 700 CCA.

In 50* temps, they don’t have enough a$$ left to turn tractor over, so I took them back to NAPA.
NAPA dealer says “leave them overnight and we will test CCA tomorrow after long charge”.

They hook a NAPA tester up to it now and it says 12V 702CCA on one and 12V and 698CCA on the other.

I’m sure an overnight charge will bring them back to life, but will it last?

I’ve had to jump them a couple times and after tractor is running, makes about 13+ on the voltmeter and theres no electrical system light on.

I would take the battery to a reputable parts store like advance or auto zone ,or another napa store and ask them to do a slow charge and then a load test for you..tell them you will pay for it but most likely they will say no charge...a napa store is only as good as the knowledge of the employees working there..and it looks like your napa store has a broken link or 2 in their employee chain...

 

[eddieirvine]

It is your battery , why they don't last is beyond me, Problem is the place you buy from can turn in and replace batteries at no cost to them, They actually are out nothing ! they just don't want to deal with the problems of batteries . Just plain tell whoever you are dealing with to replace it or you get a hold of someone that will !! I have had very good luck with Orileys Auto Never questioned any problems I have ever had, And just a note Batteries aren't what they used to be !! Nothing is what it used to be any more !!