Research for late fall maybe next year....ZTR experience

[fried1765]

Good price.....saw several on the auction sites ......btw.....which hydro-motor does it have?
Is it the ZT-2800 or 3100?
Scag website say call dealer for details.......

thanks....

ZT-2800,.... the ZT-3100 is apparently in all the larger (thousands more $) machines.

 

[Bearsixty7]

I'd check and see if you have a dealer close for Spartan Mowers and give them a look. Spartan Mowers | Zero Turn Lawn Mowers
You won't find a stronger built ZT for close to the same money. They have Kohler, B&S and Kawasaki engines.

With a 5K budget though you are limited to their lower end units but still worth a look especially end of th eyear, might get a mid level unit in your budget.

 

[YLee Kioti]

ZT-2800,.... the ZT-3100 is apparently in all the larger (thousands more $) machines.

That's pretty much true.....and then found the Ariens Apex......with the ZT3100.....spoke with the NH dealer which carries the Gravely......said he can hook me up with one next year.......so after much reading, watching, etc........looks like the Apex...........for now......HEH......and we all know how that works out right.....

Thanks....lots of choices, some not anywhere near my area though....

 

[Wesdor]

Some excellent information here. You might want to include Toro in your search. My information says Toro and Exmark are made in the same factory. The only real difference is price. Anybody confirm or deny that?

I have a high end ExMark and am very happy with it after 4 years. Big part of that is the great dealer I have.

Good luck on your search. Suggest you mow with several models to get a real comparison. Find what works best for you in your situation.

 

[YLee Kioti]

Yup have looked at the Time Master....dealer is way to far off.....
Exmark and Ariens Apex in he running.......the ZT3100 in the Apex pulls ahead......lol....

 

[shooterdon]

I have 2 acres as well. Take me just under two hours to cut as i have lots of stuff to deal with...trees, beds, patio, pond etc.

What I considered was that with a ZT I will be down to about one hour per cut. I do about 20 "cuts" per year between cutting grass and mulching leaves. So I will put about 20 hours a year on the machine. Then I looked at the warranties. 300 hours for the Ariens Ikon and 500 for the Apex. I expect that, if not abused, we can expect 50% more "life"...giving 450 hours for the Ikon and 750 for the Apex...likely more. Both have Kawasaki engines, therefore the longer warranty must be due to the transmissions and spindles. but spindles are not expensive and easy to replace. Not sure if there are other components that are better on the Apex.

Dealing with my 2 acres, I have a useful life of 22 years with the Ikon and 37 years for the Apex. I am 70. Doubt I will make it to 107...LOL

There is a $1800 difference in cost. After 22 years, at 6%, that grows to $6500. If I am still cutting grass at 92, I will have a $6500 party..

If I had more acreage, or lived where I need to cut more often, the Apex could be justified. In my situation, the Ikon seems to fit well enough.

 

[fried1765]

Just like most other Mfg., Scag and Hustler offer low end residential (cheaper made/cheaper cost) through high end commercial models (much heavier duty and much more expensive).
Its all about how much you want to spend

When you are almost 80 years old (me) $4,410 is plenty.
I don't personally forsee any need for a mower lasting more than 10 years.
The "Liberty Z" has a 750 hour warranty, so the manufacturer must have genuine faith in their product.
My grass dries up each Summer anyway, so a 10 year mower would likely last at least 20.
I think the Kawasaki engine is the real key to mower longevity.

 

[YLee Kioti]

I have 2 acres as well. Take me just under two hours to cut as i have lots of stuff to deal with...trees, beds, patio, pond etc.

What I considered was that with a ZT I will be down to about one hour per cut. I do about 20 "cuts" per year between cutting grass and mulching leaves. So I will put about 20 hours a year on the machine. Then I looked at the warranties. 300 hours for the Ariens Ikon and 500 for the Apex. I expect that, if not abused, we can expect 50% more "life"...giving 450 hours for the Ikon and 750 for the Apex...likely more. Both have Kawasaki engines, therefore the longer warranty must be due to the transmissions and spindles. but spindles are not expensive and easy to replace. Not sure if there are other components that are better on the Apex.

Dealing with my 2 acres, I have a useful life of 22 years with the Ikon and 37 years for the Apex. I am 70. Doubt I will make it to 107...LOL

There is a $1800 difference in cost. After 22 years, at 6%, that grows to $6500. If I am still cutting grass at 92, I will have a $6500 party..

If I had more acreage, or lived where I need to cut more often, the Apex could be justified. In my situation, the Ikon seems to fit well enough.

Love the math....since we are at about the Jurassic park era....lol....The difference between the two is the ability to service the hydro-motors. The Apex has filters that can be serviced. The Ikon does not indicate such serviceability.
Have read that the average tractor owner runs about 50 hours a year. Well so far in 30+ months, the Kioti is at 667 hours:shocked:.

I suspect that once I get the ZT that it will get way more then a 20-25 hours or so a year.
Now if an Ikon owner can step up and share hydro-motor service experince I'm ready to learn more. The folks that buy the lower tier ZT BB store type have made lots of video of removing wheels, disengaging all linkages, sliding tuff-torque out. Flip it upside down drain, refill and reverse process. Course all those guys were kids....about 40 years old or so.....heh......So...your facts do hold up well and sure is hard to beat math logic.......

See....my 45 years of aviation and utility maintenance time have morphed me into a OCD maint. nut......it would irritate me to no end not being able to service the hydros....sigh.....so maybe this is also therapeutic and need to lighten up a bit......Almost as OCD as Monk, the hyper-phobia detective on TV.......
whoops that was a different road......getting back on track.......

that was good stuff....when I get ready will discuss this with the local dealer here in Shiner.....so far he's proven to be helpful of what the customer needs vice up selling for a buck......and yeah I really am in denial about my age..........:laughing:

 

[YLee Kioti]

When you are almost 80 years old (me) $4,410 is plenty.
I don't personally forsee any need for a mower lasting more than 10 years.
The "Liberty Z" has a 750 hour warranty, so the manufacturer must have genuine faith in their product.
My grass dries up each Summer anyway, so a 10 year mower would likely last at least 20.
I think the Kawasaki engine is the real key to mower longevity.

Ah another one with logic hard to beat, you old guys are about to get me check mated.......:laughing:

Buuuuuuuuut.......it's exactly the kind of thinking I needed to break my hypnotic spell of shiny new 'more power, bigger is better' mind set.....

enjoy the weekend.....:cool2: and thanks for the second reality check of sound logic.....:drink:
for my (gulp) age..........heh....heh.....

 

[dragoneggs]

I mow about a hilly acre or so. I'm very happy with my Kubota Z122RKW-42. Big fan of Kawasaki small engines. This is my second and a strong reason why I chose this model. Put a mulching kit on it so no bagging and what is amazing, I can slowly plow through grass/weeds, etc. 18in high with no bogging and it mulches beautifully. More than plenty of power for a 42in deck.

 

[shooterdon]

Well so far in 30+ months I'm at 667 hours:shocked:.
I:

667 hours in 30 months to cut 2 acres???

If you cut every week, that works out to 129 cuts (4.3 wks/mo x 30). Hard to believe it is taking you over 5 hours a week to cut 2 acres. One thing to consider....on my "cheap" Husqvarna rider, the hour meter keeps running if I leave the ignition key turned on. I did that one winter when the battery died and I put it on charger, and now have over 1100 hours on the clock. But maybe you are cutting 2-3 times a week?

My advice is look at the number of times you cut, and how long it normally takes you. Then figure a 40-50% reduction in time using a ZT. In my case, I am going from 48" to 52" and have a lot of stuff to mow around so I used a 50% reduction in seat time.

This old dinosaur is lazy, and I will never change the transmission oil unless it it easy. If the "sealed" system transmissions will run 450 hours, they will stay sealed. My ground is level and I will not be using the ZT to pull anything. You situation should be evaluated.

Short story...I went into the dealer to have the transmission on my Mercedes serviced at 100K miles. I am a bit **** about servicing stuff. Wanted a new filter and fluid. Dealer told me it was "not recommended". Car went 265k miles before I totaled it when I hit a doe and fawn simultaneously. I sold it to a hillbilly who banged into drivable condition and he put another 35k on it before his gf totaled it for good.

BTW, like you I started looking a "mid range" $5-6,000 ZT because of what I read here about guys using commercial grade mowers and raving about them. But the numbers did not make sense...at least in my situation. Many suggest getting a used commercial ZT but I do not want to buy a "project". YMMV

My stupid Husqvarna rider keeps on doing its thing, and every year it runs means less time the ZT of my dreams will need to last. If I did not hate cutting grass, I would just buy another $2000 rider when it eventually craps out.

Last thing for you to noodle. I am leaning to the Country Clipper because of its flip up deck. Makes servicing blades so much easier. I am not getting younger. My fiancé really liked the joy stick controls on the CC. She has never cut the grass but if I get hurt she will need to.

 

[YLee Kioti]

667 hours in 30 months to cut 2 acres???....667 hours working on 8 acres.....lol

If you cut every week, that works out to 129 cuts (4.3 wks/mo x 30). Hard to believe it is taking you over 5 hours a week to cut 2 acres. One thing to consider....on my "cheap" Husqvarna rider, the hour meter keeps running if I leave the ignition key turned on. I did that one winter when the battery died and I put it on charger, and now have over 1100 hours on the clock. But maybe you are cutting 2-3 times a week?

My advice is look at the number of times you cut, and how long it normally takes you. Then figure a 40-50% reduction in time using a ZT. In my case, I am going from 48" to 52" and have a lot of stuff to mow around so I used a 50% reduction in seat time.

This old dinosaur is lazy, and I will never change the transmission oil unless it it easy. If the "sealed" system transmissions will run 450 hours, they will stay sealed. My ground is level and I will not be using the ZT to pull anything. You situation should be evaluated.

Short story...I went into the dealer to have the transmission on my Mercedes serviced at 100K miles. I am a bit **** about servicing stuff. Wanted a new filter and fluid. Dealer told me it was "not recommended". Car went 265k miles before I totaled it when I hit a doe and fawn simultaneously. I sold it to a hillbilly who banged into drivable condition and he put another 35k on it before his gf totaled it for good.

BTW, like you I started looking a "mid range" $5-6,000 ZT because of what I read here about guys using commercial grade mowers and raving about them. But the numbers did not make sense...at least in my situation. Many suggest getting a used commercial ZT but I do not want to buy a "project". YMMV

My stupid Husqvarna rider keeps on doing its thing, and every year it runs means less time the ZT of my dreams will need to last. If I did not hate cutting grass, I would just buy another $2000 rider when it eventually craps out. Do have some inclines about ten degrees with about 100 to 150 yard long slopes. So total acreage can vary from two to two and half, three tops once the thorns decay out further inwards.

Last thing for you to noodle. I am leaning to the Country Clipper because of its flip up deck. Makes servicing blades so much easier. I am not getting younger. My fiancé really liked the joy stick controls on the CC. She has never cut the grass but if I get hurt she will need to.

Country Clipper dealer is about 65 miles away. I did read about the controls pretty sweet looking....

 

[fried1765]

667 hours in 30 months to cut 2 acres???

If you cut every week, that works out to 129 cuts (4.3 wks/mo x 30). Hard to believe it is taking you over 5 hours a week to cut 2 acres. One thing to consider....on my "cheap" Husqvarna rider, the hour meter keeps running if I leave the ignition key turned on. I did that one winter when the battery died and I put it on charger, and now have over 1100 hours on the clock. But maybe you are cutting 2-3 times a week?

My advice is look at the number of times you cut, and how long it normally takes you. Then figure a 40-50% reduction in time using a ZT. In my case, I am going from 48" to 52" and have a lot of stuff to mow around so I used a 50% reduction in seat time.

This old dinosaur is lazy, and I will never change the transmission oil unless it it easy. If the "sealed" system transmissions will run 450 hours, they will stay sealed. My ground is level and I will not be using the ZT to pull anything. You situation should be evaluated.

Short story...I went into the dealer to have the transmission on my Mercedes serviced at 100K miles. I am a bit **** about servicing stuff. Wanted a new filter and fluid. Dealer told me it was "not recommended". Car went 265k miles before I totaled it when I hit a doe and fawn simultaneously. I sold it to a hillbilly who banged into drivable condition and he put another 35k on it before his gf totaled it for good.

BTW, like you I started looking a "mid range" $5-6,000 ZT because of what I read here about guys using commercial grade mowers and raving about them. But the numbers did not make sense...at least in my situation. Many suggest getting a used commercial ZT but I do not want to buy a "project". YMMV

My stupid Husqvarna rider keeps on doing its thing, and every year it runs means less time the ZT of my dreams will need to last. If I did not hate cutting grass, I would just buy another $2000 rider when it eventually craps out.

Last thing for you to noodle. I am leaning to the Country Clipper because of its flip up deck. Makes servicing blades so much easier. I am not getting younger. My fiancé really liked the joy stick controls on the CC. She has never cut the grass but if I get hurt she will need to.

Transmission service is recommended by factory at 70K on my Mercedes E-350.
The car currently has 62K,
I will NEVER take it to the MB dealer ($570 quote), but I will likely take it to my local foreign car guy at 70K, for .... maybe $200 ??

My JD LA 110 with K46 was doing fine, and only had 125 hours (gave it to a son).
But...... I bought the SCAG Liberty Z, because I am OLD.....and have wanted one for a while.
The Liberty Z is a VERY nice machine! I will not live long enough to wear it out!

Same logic I used for my Kubota L48 TLB!

 

[shooterdon]

Country Clipper dealer is about 65 miles away. I did read about the controls pretty sweet looking....

Mine is 45 miles away. Next closest place to buy a ZT is 25 miles and stuck with big box stores or JD, and the JD dealer is awful. Living rural that is not a big deal. CC is Amish in a Amish area. Super honest people and we like dealing with them. Hopefully will never need the dealer anyway.

 

[YLee Kioti]

Guess I'm sitting pretty well then....the Ariens/Gravely dealer is ten miles away and the eXmark is half a mile away.......

on edit.......I really do like the commercial deck set up and the hard point mounts.....

 

[YLee Kioti]

Well hey fellas hope all are well...been a while right? So, finally got settled into the house and many sundry honey-do's....and Shazam it's time to mow a .....front AND back yard...that used to be pasture....gulp! That 18 year old 21" Husqvarna ain't gonna get it.
The Ariens Apex was my first choice and save 10% at a the Blue Box store with Vet. discount....but the New Holland dealer in Shiner has treated me very well over the last four years and well chose to support him instead. I'll buy the belts & other expendables from him and if warranty is needed it will be addressed.

And after all the hours of research, the 22" wheels, 5gal. tank, ZT-3100 Hydros and 5" deep fab deck became a Red Gravely ZT-HD 48" unit.
Six hours later deck set to 3" it cuts through 6-7 inch coastal like butter and woody weeds as well.
So far here is what to be considered small annoyances. The discharge chute has a hi-freq. buzz. Looks like the bushings used to eliminate the complaints of a loud rattle.
The second quick item is how close the fuel filter is to the rear of engine case. So I used a left over scrap piece of Attic Foil radiant barrier material and wrapped fuel line and filter.
So all the reviews appear to be on point about a large deck and rough pasture. The 48 cut right over the large dished out areas w/o scalping the land or straining the blade drive system At times could feel the deck raise foot pedal slightly move as the anti-scalping wheels did their thing.

The Kawi-Eng appears to be frugal with fuel. The Air filter no longer ships with the foam pre-filter, but the replacement filters do! Hmmm go figure.
The slopes in the back were no issues for machine other then my foam spitting pucker factor, sheesh I HATE that lean!!!
So, some part of slop I did a down hill cut and backed it up for next pass. No issues with climbing back up. At 870 lbs it's solid machine that once in motion it wants to run. Had to pull back on the sticks to slow it down.
This is my first ZT ever, never even owned a lawn tractor.
The lawn tractor was going to be used to pull a sprayer, but hey now that I have forks!!! Yeah
So the ZT was the final answer...Aaaand we all know...no pics nevah happened so here are a few for eye candy. No longer shiny...

Thanks for all the input and well just wanted to bring closure to this. Did not want to dead letter file....Take care Y'all....hope to drop in soon but the rains got me cleaning and limbing trees from last month. Also heavy rain run off reveals much drainage work.

 

[greenerdreams]

i see that this answer is moot since the op already bought but i thought i would chime in for anyone searching with the same situation for further feedback. I have been a landscaper for 25 years both maintenance and install. we have solely ran exmarks partly due to a local dealer, partly because they are good machines. I have a fair amount of experience with scag as well, they make nice machines that last. Beware all the garbage that just about every company is selling as 'commercial or heavy duty'. If the back tires are the same size as a riding tractor, the machine is not commercial. The deck needs to be fabbed, not stamped or it will not last and is not repairable. Also, for anyone in the market for a new machine, look used on craigslist or facebook marketplace. The true commercial machines will last thousands of hours. Yes, a riding tractor is cheap but they have huge limits, very top heavy so hills are dangerous, very slow, decks are easily damaged by rocks or roots. A true commercial zero turn will outmow a riding tractor by at least double, I have done side by side comparisons and it's not even close. The better you get at driving, the faster you will be able to finish a job. I agree that kawasaki makes a good engine but they are not infallable, kohler is pretty close in reliability. stay away from briggs, they will not last. Not sure why nobody uses yamaha, they make excellent engines. Diesels are by far the best but very expensive. IMO, size is not super important and I have often used smaller machines(48 or even 44) because they can get in areas that the larger ones can't, as well as fitting through many gates, this eliminates the need for a small finish mower or much line trimming.