Remotes for Remotes

ronjhall · Jan 30, 2005

Yup!
Last day of work was August 16th.
Official retirement day was October 1. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Life is good. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
Are you still going to retire this year?

rswyan · Jan 30, 2005

( I hate to bust your bubble, but, that's a lot of extraneous plumbing for what could be done with electric splitters like we use on ag. tractors. )

Daryl .... no problem, doesn't burst anything of mine - not exactly sure what you are referring to here as "extraneous" - can you be a little more specific ? .... the images I've attached are simply a 3 spool valve with a pressure line (48"), powerbeyond line (36"), and return line (48") - a fairly standard setup from what I've seen of the posts here on TBN, other than perhaps the location of the valve itself and the fact that on a couple of connections I have used more than a single fitting to accomplish some bends. You aren't by chance referring to my initial question about the cabled remote control are you ?

( A 2 circuit unit is $399.99 and a 3 circuit unit is $429.99 and they come complete. We use them all the time. )

I have $215 in the 3 spool valve, less than $30 in hoses, and probably less than $100 in fittings - so I'm probably in at least $100 cheaper than a diverter.

( You have way too much plumbing. )

Please explain in more detail.

( More plumbing equates to more joints and more chances of a failure or leak. )

Yeah - I have a couple of extra fittings in a couple of spots to accomplish some bends if that's what you are referring to.

( Try www.valu-bilt.com Keyword: hydraulic multipliers )

Comes up with: "Sorry .... No items were found matching your search"

I am familiar with electric splitters - wanted to stay all hydraulic.

5030 · Jan 30, 2005

I think so. Not sure. Have a new position, way more compensation and no boss. I'm the boss. Wife is working another 3 years so I don't know. Our forage business is getting bigger and taking more time. That is pushing the retirement more than anything.

It turns out that I am doing outside fabrication for my company in my shop for really good bucks. Hate to give that up too.

5030 · Jan 30, 2005

Valu-Bilt:

I guarantee no merchantibility of any web pages other than my own. The valves are on page 53 in section 2 of Valu-Bilt's catalog.

Extraneous:
I deal with high pressure hydraulic circuits everyday in my job. More fittings, hoses, terminations, etc., mean the chance for more failures. I'd not want a 2500 psi hydraulic line wrapped with pipe insulation right next to my physical presence. I have had a close up and personal encounter with ruptured hoses before and though the GPM rating of the equipment I am referring to is in the area of 26gpm, the static pressure is about the same. We go as far as to install lexan spray shields between the hoses and fittings and ourselves. Matter of fact, that is an OSHA requirement.

I don't want any high pressure lines that close to me. That is, in my opinion, asking for trouble. I think, that if you look at any OEM setup on any tractor, there is no physical presence of any hydraulic line within the operator presence area. If there are, they are sheilded either within a housing or by some other containment means.

I am not here to try to disembowel your installation. Just consider the safety aspect of it and what the next owner might be dealing with.

That's why my suggestion would be (rear mounted) splitters.

WhiteRock · Jan 30, 2005

The electric valves look pretty interesting. Can you elaborate a little more on their operations and how you use them. Are the electric valves on and off only, or proportional control. Also I couldn't find any specs. Are they high flow and high pressure?

Thanks.

rswyan · Jan 31, 2005

Daryl,

The proximity issue of the lines being so close the operator was one I struggled with when I was deciding where to locate the valve for the very reasons you cite. The lines are only 1992 psi and about 5 gpm, not 2500 - but I know that the 500 psi difference ain't all that much of difference /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

The pipe insulation was mostly to cut down on the chance of getting burned from hot hoses - more than to really protect against a leak. I might try and come up with some additional covering of some sort to cover the hoses up near the valve, which would be the only place where they have a clean shot at me.

The issue you raise is certainly a legitimate one.

5030 · Jan 31, 2005

The valves are only proportional if the body they are plumbed to is. The have electromagnets that actuate the spools and they will handle any pressure and flow that an ag tractor will produce. We have them on a flat back Deere. That's 2000 psi and 18 gpm. Your only plumbing other than the piggyback is running the switch wire and powering it.

5030 · Jan 31, 2005

I'd suggest getting a sheet of T3 aluminum, say 28 gage and forming a cover for the hoses and the termination. Either that, or run them in conduit, which you can bend. Especially the hoses right next to your shoulder. A blind side rupture could blind you. A pinhole leak can be almost invisible, but could penetrate your eye with no problem. You don't want to loose them.

Besides, you need to be around to challange my posts. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

WhiteRock · Jan 31, 2005

I think I have it, but want to play it back to be sure.

My example; With one service outlet controlled by a self canceling detent valve, this 2-circuit hydraulic multiplier allows me to electrically select which circuit I want to activate. I can activate one or all at the same time. The activated circuit(s) are then controlled by self canceling detent valve. Correct?

Neat (if that's the way they work). Is the spacing such that the multiplier plugs directly into the service, or are hoses needed?

5030 · Feb 1, 2005

Thats how they work and they plumb directly. The parent valve controls the action.

ronjhall · Feb 1, 2005

that's a lot of extraneous plumbing for what could be done with electric splitters like we use on ag. tractors. 
5030
I'm a little confused here. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
How would the electric splitters clean up the plumbing if there are no remotes at the rear or front of tractor to start with.
Maybe your are referring to Randalls project.
I have thought about using a electrical splitter if I ever wanted run more than 3 cylinders on my tractor. But have not got to that point yet.

rswyan · Feb 1, 2005

Ron,

I was too - I wasn't sure whether Daryl was replying to my postings or your post initially - but I'm fairly sure he was replying to mine and was talking about the points where I used multiple hydraulic fittings chained together. For example to tie my remote valves into the loader return line I used a JIC run tee, a female JIC to NPT adapter, then a 45 swivel into that and then another 45 swivel on the first 45.

Would have been nicer to use a single steel line, but I didn't.

rswyan · Feb 1, 2005

( I'd suggest getting a sheet of T3 aluminum, say 28 gage and forming a cover for the hoses and the termination. Either that, or run them in conduit, which you can bend. )

I think I would be inclined to go with the aluminum - should be easy to form and there's an aluminum wholesaler within 5 minutes of my house. Conduit sounds like it would be a PITA.

( Especially the hoses right next to your shoulder. A blind side rupture could blind you. A pinhole leak can be almost invisible, but could penetrate your eye with no problem. You don't want to loose them. )

No - I definitely don't. Realistically, to guard against hydraulic injection, I should only need to shield the hoses on the side facing the operator correct ? You have any idea on what the pressure decrease over distance is for a pinhole rupture ? I know that to check for hydraulic leaks you're supposed to use a piece of say cardboard and not stick a hand right up next to a hose ..... but at some distance the pressure has to fall off dramatically.

( Besides, you need to be around to challange my posts. )

Nothing like a little stimulating conversation, eh ? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

5030 · Feb 2, 2005

Actually, the pressure don't fall off at all. Perhaps I should say the your maximim pressure is with no flow. Once you have flow, the pressure drops. Understand, hydraulic oil has no compressability, so if you have say 19oo psi at the valve block, you have 1900 psi in the hoses at static ( not being used) pressure. Hope you used 2 wire hoses.

I probably should have clarified EMT istead of conduit, but an aluminum sheild would be more practical.

Stimulating conversation, well, little tractors don't stimulate me, I can't farm with them. What really stimulates me are motorcycles, mainly Triumph motorcycles. One thing though, little tractors or big, the principles are the same and the safety issues are the same too.

5030 · Feb 2, 2005

Ron:

Thats the problem with not frequenting this site too much. I might have gotten confused a little. Probably my advanced age.....though not quite as advanced as you.

In so much as cylinders, well if you add 2 more, you will have more than the engine has.

How's things over at Wellington. Haven't been there in a long time.

rswyan · Feb 3, 2005

( Actually, the pressure don't fall off at all. Perhaps I should say the your maximim pressure is with no flow. Once you have flow, the pressure drops. Understand, hydraulic oil has no compressability, so if you have say 19oo psi at the valve block, you have 1900 psi in the hoses at static ( not being used) pressure. )

Right.

( Hope you used 2 wire hoses. )

Of course /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Two wire, rated for 4000 psi.

( I probably should have clarified EMT istead of conduit, but an aluminum sheild would be more practical. )

I got it that you were referring to EMT - yeah, I think I'll just go with aluminum sheet.

( Stimulating conversation, well, little tractors don't stimulate me, I can't farm with them. What really stimulates me are motorcycles, mainly Triumph motorcycles. One thing though, little tractors or big, the principles are the same and the safety issues are the same too. )

Well thanks for the help at any rate, even if it wasn't stimulating conversation /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif I'm afraid I'm not much of a motorcycle afficianado anymore, although I did own several when i was younger. The Trumpet's are certainly elegant machines .....

5030 · Feb 3, 2005

Actually, the utmost stimulating conversation I have is with my wife "what is for dinner". And, "did you turn the electric blanket on?" /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

MadReferee · Feb 4, 2005

Back to the original post.

The latest Surplus Center catalog (#278 2005) has listed the remote control for the prince valves on page 21. The setup is not cheap. Here are the prices:

joystick lever $89.95
control cables $32.95, $35.95, $38.95
valve connection kit for each SV spool $10.95

Total cost for a joystick w/ 2 spool connection would be $177.75 using the shorter (and least expensive) of the cables.

Rock on.

rswyan · Feb 4, 2005

( Rock on. )

Yowouch !!!!

Yeah, think I'll pass - a little too rich for my blood /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

It's probably nice for someone who needs the smallest footprint they can get for the controls and has an out of the way location they can mount the valve, but the for those on a budget (like me) it definitely ain't cost effective.

Thanks for the info Paul.