Relationship between HP and Loader function?

[dannyk]

I was thinking about the new L's, particularly the 3240 and the 3540, and noticed that there are two loaders available, the LA 514 and the LA 724. My question is whether if one gets the larger capacity 724 loader, should one also get the bigger engine that the L3540 has, or is the smaller engine in the 3240 just as capable of handling the 724 loader?

For background, I want the smallest tractor I can get for forestry work (to get between trees), but I also have an 800 lb grapple that I think would require the 724 loader.

Thanks to all who can provide info!

Danny

 

[SkyPup]

I don't think an 800 pound hydraulic grapple will go too well on the LA723-724 FEL. Not enough weight capacity or hydraulic flow, not to mention the tractor is rather small for that grapple weight.

I have a L-3130 with the LA723 FEL and a L-39 with the BT-1000 FEL. I have an 850 pound root grapple on the L-39, and no way would I be operating that off the LA-723 FEL on the L-3130.

For an 800 pound grapple, you may have to go up to a larger L series like the L-4630 or L-5030 to get the higher GPM hydraulic flow, larger wheelbase, and the LA853 loader capacity.....

 

[dannyk]

Thanks, Sky. I appreciate your thoughts.

For the sake of argument, I will mention that the grapple works well with my 753 Bobcat that has only a 1300 lb ROC as compared to the 724's 1500 lb capacity. I use the grapple mainly to move tree limbs, branches, and sections of trunks that I cut into 5-foot lengths with my chain saw.

Now it is true that the Bobcat has about 14 gpm of hydraulic flow vs. the 8 gpm on the L3240, but wouldn't that just increase the time required to open and close the grapple, as opposed to limiting it's usefulness?

Danny

 

[SkyPup]

Yes, the GPM would slow down the opening and closing times, but what I would be more concerned about is capacity and stability.

The grapple itself is taking up approx 1/2 of your working capacity and when the FEL is raised up high (even without any load in the grapple) with that much weight, your lighter weight tractor will be very unstable. Adding a load to match the total capacity of the FEL will make your tractor even more unstable.

I think you will need a larger wheelbase machine, larger hydraulic pump, and larger capacity FEL.

My 850 pound ANBO root grapple works excellent on my L-39's heavy duty TL1000 FEL, but no way would I attempt to use it on my LA723 FEL on the L-3130.

I would say that a 400-500 pound hydraulic grapple would be more advisable for a LA723 sized FEL.

 

[dannyk]

Well, I sure don't want to make the wrong decision here, because it is a big purchase. So I really appreciate any advice, especially since my only experience is with the Bobcat. I have never used a tractor loader.

But I still have a question: I would be adding rear wheel weights and weight on the three-point, so I don't understand why rear weight wouldn't compensate for a heavy load up front (say 1200 lb grapple plus brush) if the loader is rated for the tractor and the loader itself is rated for 1500 lb.

Thanks again for responding,
Danny

 

[dannyk]

In the interest of a lively discussion, here are some stats on the new L's:

The difference from the L3240 to the L4740 in the wheelbase is only 3.5 inches.
The difference in the length of the tractors is only 6.5 inches.
The difference in the weight is only 275 lbs (GST comparison).

So the main difference between these two tractors appears to be horsepower, not dimensions or weight!

By the way, the wheelbase of my Bobcat is only 36 inches, and the counterweight is basically everything in the engine compartment. It's true, though, that my Bobcat weighs more than 5000 lbs with the tracks. However, the three-point hitch of the L3240 is rated at 2650 lbs, so I could easily bring the weight of an L3240 up to more than 5000 lbs.

The end result is that I still don't see the need to buy anything more than the L3240, unless the horsepower is required to work the weighted machine.

Comments gratefully appreciated! Bird, where are you?

Danny

 

[ozzie tractor]

sorta sounds to me like you have made up your mind already. personally i agree with skypup. thats a lot of weight on the front of what is honestly a fairly small machine. one reason why a bobcat can handle loads much better is the weight of a boobcat is so low compared to a tractor. this makes them far more stable.

 

[art]

Small bits and a lot of trips could have you smiling. I would just say to be cautious! I don't know that I'd want a steady diet of it for the tractor and rear ballasting is going to be critical.

 

[whodat90]

The bobcat and the tractor are two fundamentally different critters. The tractor has a pivoting front axle, and the loader pivots are in the middle of the vehicle. The bobcat has two solid axles (I assume) so it's a more stable platform, and the loader pivots are at the extreme rear of the vehicle. This matters because it makes the entire vehicle a counterweight. Bobcats (skidsteers in general) are designed inside a loader, for loader work. Tractors are designed at tractors, with a loader attachment available.

 

[dannyk]

Thanks, Whodat. What you say makes sense to me. I can see that a 5000 lb tractor will be less stable than a similar weight Bobcat with a loaded bucket, especially when the bucket is raised.

By the way, I have by no means made up my mind. That's why I started this thread. The L39 TL is another possibility I have been considering. I just don't want to spend more than I have to.

But what I still don't see, given the similar weights and dimensions of the L3240 and the L4740, is how the L4740 is going to be a big advantage over the 3240 for the type of work I'm describing.

Danny

 

[dannyk]

Sorry, I keep thinking of other things I should mention.

My grapple (Quick Attach Claw) is not for any sort of ground engaging work, as a root grapple might be. I simply approach a pile of brush, pick it up and move it. The grapple plus its contents always weighs a lot less than my low profile bucket when it is full of clay soil. I can tell this just from the way the machine reacts to the load.

Also, I want to apologize in case I have sounded too argumentative. This is only because I DON'T KNOW A DARN THING ABOUT TRACTORS, so I am playing devil's advocate in hopes that people will set me straight. I realize that Sky and Ozzie may well be correct in their opinions. It's just that I still don't really understand, given the tractor specs, why they are correct.

Thanks again,
Danny

 

[ozzie tractor]

ok lets think lateraly here, does it have to be a tractor, how about a dedicated loader like a Kubota R420s or similar. (thats the model we get in australia, we are about 12 months behind what everyone else gets so it has probably been updated with a new model by now) check this link.Kubota Australia :: Categories :: Products :: Models :: Details

 

[ozzie tractor]

the reason i suggest to go for the larger tractor is that every time i have seen a smaller machine weighted to its capacities it has benn a very nervous, dangerous and scary machine to operate. the most memorable was a b2410 a few years ago. loaded wheels, rear weight, loader etc. felt like a big slug to drive, operated ok. but it was always on nearly level ground. would have hated to take it up a hill and work. even when you where driving it around it felt like it was going to fall over. with a full bucket it was right at the max loads. my suggestions are not scientific. they are just through observation over the years of more kubota's than i would care to remember. go find a dealer with a few machines in stock. put your grab on the front and see how it feels to operate. even with no load in the grab you should be able to get a idea of what its going to be like. happy hunting

 

[rdsaustintx]

one reason why a bobcat can handle loads much better is the weight of a boobcat is so low compared to a tractor. this makes them far more stable.

Bobcats are very sure-footed, but I see them flip over ALL the time. The loaders on those things are ridiculously OVER-powered.

Hard to imagine a TLB with ROPS as effective as Bobcat has though, sitting inside that little cage. Padded headliner even.

Congratulations Oz. "Boobcat" is the cleverest typo I have seen all year

Russell in Texas

 

[dannyk]

Thanks again, Ozzie and Sky. Your comments are VERY helpful, and this is why I post on this forum before making big decisions! It is very interesting to learn that operating near the rated capacity can lead to safety issues. (I have to confess I've tipped my skidsteer, but only when foolishly raising a full load of dirt too high.)

I have thought about the Kubota wheel loaders, but I can't garage one due to their height. Guess I'll have to trade my Boobcat for an L39 TL!

I had also thought about the Toolcat, but I have been reading about too many reliability issues.

Danny

 

[ozzie tractor]

Congratulations Oz. "Boobcat" is the cleverest typo I have seen all year

Russell in Texas

and the year is nearly over, that is quiet an achievement.....

 

[ozzie tractor]

Thanks again, Ozzie and Sky. Your comments are VERY helpful, and this is why I post on this forum before making big decisions! It is very interesting to learn that operating near the rated capacity can lead to safety issues. (I have to confess I've tipped my skidsteer, but only when foolishly raising a full load of dirt too high.)

I have thought about the Kubota wheel loaders, but I can't garage one due to their height. Guess I'll have to trade my Boobcat for an L39 TL!

I had also thought about the Toolcat, but I have been reading about too many reliability issues.

Danny

the l would be an excellent machine, shame they are so much more expensive though. the thing i keep noticing about machines which are near full load is how much the tyres move about, a bit of weight transfers onto one side and the tyre starts to really sag. make the whole thing feel very ponderous and unpredictable.

hasnt everyone put a skid steer on it ear at one stage or another. i actually put one over backwards into a bunker on a golf course. my own fault, to much hurry and not enough care, like most accidents i suppose.

 

[SkyPup]

Our L-39 handles an 850 pound hydraulic grapple without any problems and is extremely stable (lower to the ground than the other AG- Utility L- Series tractors).

Here's a pic of our L-39 grapple with about half a ton of logs in it:

 

[SkyPup]

P.S., one of the reasons that it is so stable is due that that nice heavy BH counterweight on the rear end.

 

[rdsaustintx]

P.S., one of the reasons that it is so stable is due that that nice heavy BH counterweight on the rear end.

Looks like a DELUXE chainsaw caddy in the photo