Real estate General topic

[the old grind]

So, wife and I went riding around the area looking this evening. She wanted to relook at an oddball parcel (I more or less veto'd).

I actually might text this one tomorrow and see what he's actually selling.

This is what I 'guessed' the 9.4 acres is; as its currently like a 40 acres random shaped chunk of woods.

Size looks about right for ~10 ac. Plenty of neighbors but across the road. btw If the orange line were a natural drain I wouldn't want to be them. Clearing for a house and barn could be a J O B. Better come cheap per acre.

Be careful when imagining good hunting w/o crops or food plots, and neighbors or their pets perhaps spooking deer away.

 

[paulsharvey]

Size looks about right for ~10 ac. Plenty of neighbors but across the road. btw If the orange line were a natural drain I wouldn't want to be them. Clearing for a house and barn could be a J O B. Better come cheap per acre.

Be careful when imagining good hunting w/o crops or food plots, and neighbors or their pets perhaps spooking deer away.

Yeah, not sure I'm gonna look at that any further, it just seems to be too boxed in, and although I haven't dug into it too much further, it's got an odd zoning/land-use of RR (Rural Residential). Typically almost everything around here is zoned A2 Ag, and generally, I'm pretty familiar with that.

 

[ericm979]

In some states ag zoning comes with a break on property taxes.

 

[paulsharvey]

In some states ag zoning comes with a break on property taxes.

Here it's a Bona Fide Agricultural Property that gets significant breaks; and that is related to the actual use of the land to make money at agriculture, and not related to zoning.

 

[WinterDeere]

Yeah, not sure I'm gonna look at that any further, it just seems to be too boxed in, and although I haven't dug into it too much further, it's got an odd zoning/land-use of RR (Rural Residential). Typically almost everything around here is zoned A2 Ag, and generally, I'm pretty familiar with that.

The lot behind me, which I was unable to convince my wife to buy, is similarly surrounded by smaller lots, like this one you posted. A guy who is my "new" neighbor bought and built on it 10 years ago, and he had some issues with all of the legacy neighbors using his lot as their dumping ground for yard waste, old swingsets, etc. He eventually talked with all of the neighbors, with varying levels of push-back, but I do believe he finally has all those issues resolved.

Point being, all of those neighbors are looking at that "unused woods" as a perfect place to dump their stuff, for their kids to play, etc. Usually not a huge issue, but a minor annoyance if not addressed.

That said, I like the lot, but I'm a water rat. How big is that body of water? Any chance to build a dock?

 

[paulsharvey]

The lot behind me, which I was unable to convince my wife to buy, is similarly surrounded by smaller lots, like this one you posted. A guy who is my "new" neighbor bought and built on it 10 years ago, and he had some issues with all of the legacy neighbors using his lot as their dumping ground for yard waste, old swingsets, etc. He eventually talked with all of the neighbors, with varying levels of push-back, but I do believe he finally has all those issues resolved.

Point being, all of those neighbors are looking at that "unused woods" as a perfect place to dump their stuff, for their kids to play, etc. Usually not a huge issue, but a minor annoyance if not addressed.

That said, I like the lot, but I'm a water rat. How big is that body of water? Any chance to build a dock?

That water body is approx 80 acres, connected somewhat to a 320 acre nicer (ie deeper, less marshy banked) lake by a sketchy, seasonal, channel. Think kayaks, jon boats with mud motor, or air boat; probably less than 24" channel, maybe 8-12 feet wide, and heavily weeded.

 

[WinterDeere]

That water body is approx 80 acres, connected somewhat to a 320 acre nicer (ie deeper, less marshy banked) lake by a sketchy, seasonal, channel. Think kayaks, jon boats with mud motor, or air boat; probably less than 24" channel, maybe 8-12 feet wide, and heavily weeded.

Hmm... sounds like a giant mosquito farm, from that description.

Too shallow for small sailboats.

 

[paulsharvey]

Hmm... sounds like a giant mosquito farm, from that description.

Too shallow for small sailboats.

It basically used to be 1 large 480 acre lake; and now is one large, nice, southern lake, and a less nice, northern lake, that was 2 clear, 20 acre, deep areas, and about 40 acres of 3-5 ft deep, grass/lily/shore areas.

 

[paulsharvey]

My concern, would be, 9.4 acres, surrounded by 1/2 acre lake homes (1950s-1970s vintage); kinda forces your hand a bit on home site, and with that, usable land vs privacy. I was noisy enough to dig into the property appraiser info; and it's actually like 8 acres once you discount the road, which is part of this property, with a county prescriptive easement over it (dang near a county Right of Way, more or less, county claimed by maintenance,)

 

[paulsharvey]

Do other areas of the US have so many oddly cut up rural properties, or is this a FLa thing? I know a lot of our property lines and all have to do with maximizing the number of lots that can be sold as water front, sometimes leading to some bizarre shapes.

 

[buckeyefarmer]

The lot behind me, which I was unable to convince my wife to buy, is similarly surrounded by smaller lots, like this one you posted. A guy who is my "new" neighbor bought and built on it 10 years ago, and he had some issues with all of the legacy neighbors using his lot as their dumping ground for yard waste, old swingsets, etc. He eventually talked with all of the neighbors, with varying levels of push-back, but I do believe he finally has all those issues resolved.

Point being, all of those neighbors are looking at that "unused woods" as a perfect place to dump their stuff, for their kids to play, etc. Usually not a huge issue, but a minor annoyance if not addressed.

That said, I like the lot, but I'm a water rat. How big is that body of water? Any chance to build a dock?

I looked at one near me like that. property backs a long row of houses, every one used to dumping stuff back there, and the lines are overgrown. Couldn't imagine the pain of clearing the lot lines up, and getting the neighbors to stop using it.

 

[WinterDeere]

Do other areas of the US have so many oddly cut up rural properties, or is this a FLa thing? I know a lot of our property lines and all have to do with maximizing the number of lots that can be sold as water front, sometimes leading to some bizarre shapes.

Short answer: yes.

Longer answer: This part of PA went thru a lot of "revitalization" at the hands of the Army Corp of Engineers, ca.1970. Many of our historic towns were in decline, as shopping centers built on the outskirts were pulling business away from all the legacy Main Street shops. Towns like Montgomeryville and Langhorne accepted federal funding, to let the ACoE come in and re-map the town with highways and drainage, which pretty much destroyed the "old town" character of these places. Other towns, Doylestown being the most notable among them, fought this trend and benefitted enormously by going "rogue" with their own locally-organized revitalization efforts.

Part of this ACoE work was the creating of many man-made lakes, such as Galena and Nockamixon. These were all created by damming a creek or tributary, and flooding a valley, using eminent domain to buy up the farms that would be flooded out in the process. You can still see the foundations of many of these old farm houses under Lake Galena, any time the water level gets low.

The area where I live now was slated for similar treatment, until one very wealthy resident took it upon himself to buy up a few dozen of the local farms dotting the valley. As he was a high-ranking Federal official, he had the pull to combine, split, and rezone the whole area into such a mess, that no future generation would ever be able to put Humpty back together again. By that, I mean if you own more than 15 acres around here, it's almost certain you have easements both to and from your land, through, around or across your neighbors. This mess was created very intentionally and deliberately, to prevent any future developer from ever being able to put together large swaths of contiguous property.

So, our area has maintained its very rural feel, a small hole in the donut of the greater mid-Atlantic megalopolis stretching from DC to Boston. The man who did all of this is long gone, but his grandkids still live on one of the larger and nicer farms he once occupied, and a park he had donated to the township surrounds my present neighborhood.

 

[WinterDeere]

I looked at one near me like that. property backs a long row of houses, every one used to dumping stuff back there, and the lines are overgrown. Couldn't imagine the pain of clearing the lot lines up, and getting the neighbors to stop using it.

In the case of my neighbor, it really wasn't a big deal. One neighbor asked if he could continue archery hunting in those woods for the next 3 years, until his teenage son went away to college, which was fine. A few others kept dumping grass clippings, until they were asked a second or third time to stop, but I think everyone complied within the first few years of him being there and starting to clean things up.

 

[Oaktree]

In some states ag zoning comes with a break on property taxes.

My state (N.H.) has a program called Current Use which was created to preserve open space and gives a considerable property tax advantage. You need to be able to put a minimum of 10 acres into it, and it comes with some restrictions, most notably you can not post the property to foot or equestrian traffic, though you can prohibit motor vehicles. Not sure about hunting.
Agricultural and forestry use of the property is permitted.

The name is a bit confusing, and many think it means the land is currently in use (ie-occupied).

Do other areas of the US have so many oddly cut up rural properties, or is this a FLa thing? I know a lot of our property lines and all have to do with maximizing the number of lots that can be sold as water front, sometimes leading to some bizarre shapes.

My property was that way, originally a larger piece cut up into smaller lots. The one my house is on has a long 10' wide "finger" leading down to the river so they could claim it had water frontage. My solution was to buy a couple adjoining lots, almost equaling the original piece. The one I didn't buy already had a signed agreement.

A lot of subdivided lots here are what's referred to as "piano key" lots...wide enough to conform to frontage requirements and quite deep.

 

[ericm979]

Do other areas of the US have so many oddly cut up rural properties, or is this a FLa thing? I know a lot of our property lines and all have to do with maximizing the number of lots that can be sold as water front, sometimes leading to some bizarre shapes.

There are a lot of funny shaped lots out in Calfornia's gold country. They're not rectangular and they don't follow the terrain. I assume it's due to legacy from mining claims. It must be extra fun being a surveyor there.

There are some lots in my area that look ok on a map, in that they're rectangular and not all chopped up, but when you combine the plot layout with topographic info you find that they are highly impractical. You might get a home site near the road on your 20 acres but the rest is down a cliff into a steep canyon.

 

[paulsharvey]

On that 9.4 acres; wife saw this post on a local Word of Mouth web group. Someone asking a 'rich benafactor' to buy it because they love 'their trails, their woods' ect. Sounds like those sourround homes view that 9.4 acres as their own park

 

[the old grind]

People so often treat unoccupied/unsupervised property as free range until someone owns it that wants to use it for any personal/private use otherwise.

I'd pass on that for ~$15k acre and wait for something far less 'crowded' and/or needing so much prep to build on. (my $.02 on that property)

As others have said, bargains may pop up, one only needs to be prepared, and the wait often pays off.

 

[paulsharvey]

People so often treat unoccupied/unsupervised property as free range until someone owns it that wants to use it for any personal/private use otherwise.

I'd pass on that for ~$15k acre and wait for something far less 'crowded' and/or needing so much prep to build on. (my $.02 on that property)

As others have said, bargains may pop up, one only needs to be prepared, and the wait often pays off.

Yeah, wife wasn't impressed with it

 

[plowhog]

Couldn't imagine the pain of clearing the lot lines up, and getting the neighbors to stop using it.

When buying property it is possible you don't know what prescriptive easements exist. These are codified in law. It can get very messy if you buy property and try to stop activity by others that has taken place over many years.

In my area, if someone has used someone else's property with "open and notorious use" for 5 years, they acquire a legal right to continue doing that. Such as riding their horses through, walking a game trail, and on and on. I have some personal experience with this that is miserable-- it started long ago with prior property owners, but now I can't control or stop the activity since the prescriptive easement was acquired long ago.

 

[WinterDeere]

When buying property it is possible you don't know what prescriptive easements exist. These are codified in law. It can get very messy if you buy property and try to stop activity by others that has taken place over many years.

In my area, if someone has used someone else's property with "open and notorious use" for 5 years, they acquire a legal right to continue doing that. Such as riding their horses through, walking a game trail, and on and on. I have some personal experience with this that is miserable-- it started long ago with prior property owners, but now I can't control or stop the activity since the prescriptive easement was acquired long ago.

That's bizarre, and I've never even heard of anything like that, around here. I assume such a law would also come with some right to sue the seller of the property, if they didn't disclose this usage to a buyer? How else would a buyer even know?