Real estate General topic

[plowhog]

How else would a buyer even know?

You don't always know. That's one of the many reasons why real estate is interesting.

What are prescriptive easements and are they a deal breaker?

Prescriptive easements are held by people who gain a right to use someone else’s property. Find out if you should buy property encumbered with easements.

www.rocketmortgage.com

 

[WinterDeere]

You don't always know. That's one of the many reasons why real estate is interesting.

What are prescriptive easements and are they a deal breaker?

Prescriptive easements are held by people who gain a right to use someone else’s property. Find out if you should buy property encumbered with easements.

www.rocketmortgage.com

So, I did a little digging, and in PA it takes 21 years of continuous, uninterrupted use to establish a prescriptive easement. I found one statement that it had to be "validated" before sale of the property, for a buyer of the property to be bound by it, but honestly couldn't find more clarity or backup statements on that. I've honestly never heard of this being an issue for anyone in PA, but was able to find a few cases online.

If it's really only 5 years in California, then yeah... I could see that being much more of a thing. Most people own property more than 5 years, and may not change their usage much over such a short time period, but 21 years for continuous uninterrupted use of anything on a property must be much less common.

 

[paulsharvey]

So, your rules may (will vary), but my understanding; the person seeking the easement would have to go to a judge, and provide the evidence of the continued use. The use would have to be open and obvious, and could not be in violation of law. IE, if the property was posted during thebl use period, that would not count. If before the period of time (7 years?) is meet, the user is told to stop use (you would need evidence of that) then that also would prevent it.

I think most of this has to do with absentee land owners, or worse yet, friendly neighbors. You let your neighbor short cut across your property ad a good will thing, he or the next owner could push the issue, and establish an enforceable easement. No good deed goes unpunished.

 

[WinterDeere]

No good deed goes unpunished.

Every year for the last 12 years, I've dumped truckloads of walnuts and leaves into the edge of a drainage ditch on my neighbor's property, per their request, as the area suffers a lot of erosion, and dumping organic matter in there helps to replace some of what the prior year's storms have washed away. I don't know how much it's actually helping him, but it gives me a good place to get rid of the stuff, and seems to make him happy too.

Here's hoping for another 9 years of uninterrupted use, before I need to deal with any potential new neighbor, on this issue. Getting rid of many thousands of pounds of messy rotting walnuts any other way would be a serious hardship. I believe the prior owners going back to at least 1986 have used the same area for dumping yard waste.

 

[ultrarunner]

I was taught if use is by permission that permission can be revoked.

 

[plowhog]

Here's hoping for another 9 years of uninterrupted use

Well, you are doing it with their permission. In my area that changes things entirely.

You could request that the current owner give you a deeded easement that is recorded on title. Then it would be permanent, and "run with the land."

If the current owner likes you doing this it might be a good time to negotiate. Maybe even toss in a little $$ as goodwill.

 

[paulsharvey]

I was taught if use is by permission that permission can be revoked.

Until the period if time has passed to establish an easement, yes. Now, State laws really Vary a ton of all this stuff, like adverse possession, Easements, ripen rights, squatters, ect. And also, thus is kinda the meeting point of real estate, real estate attorney, surveyor, and title insurance.

So, a classic example; a city/county/state/individual/corporation has a drainage easement, going to a water body, to discharge treated storm water; let's say, legal description shows a 200 ft easement to the lake; lake level drops 500 feet (not vertical, I mean shore receeds), that entity still has an enforceable drainage easement to the water body, not just the 200 ft shown on the legal description.

Edit: this could also make the easement holder responsible for maintaining that additional 500 lf too...

 

[the old grind]

Yes, state laws do vary a lot. In MI there is no adverse possession, or right of easement to claim.

My E & W property lines were misunderstood long before a house was built next door. PO here was thought to be 'encroaching' and was sued. PO had the place surveyed and the suer found that 10' of his house was on what would become my land in 2000. He was up a tree when I moved in.

The guy who built and mined sand and screened gravel at my place long ago had indeed encroached on ~800' when digging the pond. Old tree lines were used in error from front to back since WW II or before and that ~'800 of my shoreline still belonged to the orchard.

Everything was securely locked in place by the deeds as recorded. So I traded Pat 500' x 30' for 40' x 800' or so. New survey, then our deeds were updated with the changes & recorded as such. There was no other way to treat these two areas under MI law, but both Pat and I got to keep what we thought we'd owned all along, came out winners, and get along very well.

 

[plowhog]

State laws really Vary a ton of all this stuff, like adverse possession, Easements, ripen rights, squatters, ect.

On January 1, 2023 California Public Utilities Commission (CPUC) gutted private property rights in favor of utility companies. Personally I believe this is illegal and unconstitutional, but it is now the "law of the land" and it is imposed on me whether I like it or not. Our utility company, PG&E, can now come on my land and cut down any tree that, in their view, has any chance of making contact with a power line. They have the legal right to raze an entire corridor through my property. (In my case, 3 corridors for 3 power lines.) Whether I object or not. And when they drop trees, they leave the fallen trees and logs behind.

From the new regulation:

"a person who owns, controls, operates, or maintains an electrical transmission or distribution line may traverse land as necessary, regardless of land ownership or express permission to traverse land from the landowner, ... The clearances obtained when the pruning is performed shall be at the full discretion of the person that owns, controls, operates, or maintains any electrical transmission or distribution line, "

https://codes.findlaw.com/ca/public-resources-code/prc-sect-4295-5/

 

[WinterDeere]

On January 1, 2023 California Public Utilities Commission (CPUC) gutted private property rights in favor of utility companies. Personally I believe this is illegal and unconstitutional, but it is now the "law of the land" and it is imposed on me whether I like it or not. Our utility company, PG&E, can now come on my land and cut down any tree that, in their view, has any chance of making contact with a power line. They have the legal right to raze an entire corridor through my property. (In my case, 3 corridors for 3 power lines.) Whether I object or not. And when they drop trees, they leave the fallen trees and logs behind.

From the new regulation:

"a person who owns, controls, operates, or maintains an electrical transmission or distribution line may traverse land as necessary, regardless of land ownership or express permission to traverse land from the landowner, ... The clearances obtained when the pruning is performed shall be at the full discretion of the person that owns, controls, operates, or maintains any electrical transmission or distribution line, "

https://codes.findlaw.com/ca/public-resources-code/prc-sect-4295-5/

Wow... California has gone full Communist!

 

[ultrarunner]

Can I say I maintain my service drop to the outbuilding and remove trees as I deem without a city permit, public hearings, and neighborhood placarding like I had to do for a Walnut Tree in the yard?

 

[kenmbz]

Can I say I maintain my service drop to the outbuilding and remove trees as I deem without a city permit, public hearings, and neighborhood placarding like I had to do for a Walnut Tree in the yard?

Just make sure your neighbors don't see that :-(

 

[plowhog]

Can I say I maintain my service drop to the outbuilding and remove trees as I deem without a city permit, public hearings, and neighborhood placarding like I had to do for a Walnut Tree in the yard?

Cannot answer without more information.

How much $$ did you contribute to the local Board of Supervisor candidates in the last election?

 

[paulsharvey]

I would be curious what yalls system is when looking at raw land, heavily wooded. It seems anytime you tour something, you leave and then think of 15 things you should have looked at/asked/checked.

I normally look on Basemap, Property Appraiser, ect to get an idea of what I'm looking at; then do a drive by to check the 'flavor' of the neighborhood, check the access (roads to the property more than on property), check wetland maps, before touring; but always end up missing a lot, and wishing I had checked this or that.

Edit; also school zoning matters to us, but may not to others; not in the matter if good vs bad schools; but a matter of keeping the kids in the same bad schools they are already in

Re-edit: by bad school, I mean poorly rated, not violent or something like that

 

[paulsharvey]

Just walked a 12.5 acre piece of vacant woods. Called the property owner and asked permission. It did have a unrecorded aerial power-line (single phase distribution, easement crossing it; so that is a mixed bag, easier/cheaper power, but the easement. Found what appears to be an old concrete parking pad, and signs there had been a mobile home and septic tank there that split the property line in the distant past (septic mound appears to be on a non-included adjacent parcel). Didn't see it, but im sure there is remains of a well in that area. Scouted out the two shown wetland areas to see what they really where; one appears to be a minor seasonal creek, other appears to be a small boggy area on opposite corner; one in NE corner other in SE corner; about 5 acres of marketable pines; not planted, natural. The front, back and sides are fenced; But it appears that it was a 20 acre rectangle, and the front half of that square was split into 4-2.5 acres pieces; and it's the 20 acre rectangle that's fenced as one piece. So, that would need some side fencing. Definitely needs some clearing, some forestry mulching, ect; and will have to discuss with wife. Also need to look into the restrictions on building a pond. Mechanically it would be simple to place a pond at the SE corner, just have to read up on legalities of that in an existing wetland (or maybe it's just flood zone).

 

[paulsharvey]

Didn't start recording track at the beginning, and still did 0.99 miles over 41 minutes, in some thick palmetto, briars, ect. Did hop a fence at one point along that southern border to avoid some very heavy growth.

 

[paulsharvey]

Curious what people on here are paying for well/septic/power hook up/clearing/driveway connections. I'm currently budgeting apporx $15k for well, $25k for septic, and $10k for power. I know what driveway, pipe, ect cost; and would have no intention of hiring that out. I do 100% know septic is very dependent on raised field vs gravity; well is pretty dependent on depth; but things are pretty consistently 95-120 lf deep around here for drinking water (irrigation, some placed can get by at 25-40 ft around here, but not drinking water). Locally, the power co-op, only allows buried from pole to service unless you get an exemption form the board; but it's not that hard to place 4" PVC at 30" deep.

Locally, a 18" CMP, 32-40 total length, 2 poured mitered end sections, and a 5 ft concrete apron connection to a paved road, is typically $7k-9k. Yes, it's $1800 in pipe, $200 in a truck load of fill; and $720 for a 6 yards of concrete; but the vast majority of that is labor/equipment/profit. 18" HDPE or PE pipe isn't really much cheaper, and you can't pour a MES on it (per DOT standards).

Edit: When I say budgetting; what I mean is place holder numbers, when figuring cost to build/have manufactured set up. We are still looking at like 3 possibilities; land and site built; land and existing home; land and manufactured; and also the possibility (wife not so much of a fan of this one) land and major rehab of an existing.

 

[paulsharvey]

Did run across an odd ad; 6 acres. in the right area, she'd, pole barn, and existing 2012 manufactured, for Cheap; like getting close to cleared, accessible, land price. Catch; Existing mobile home is deemed unlivable due to contamination... Wonder; Meth lab, or old folks died and they didn't find the bodies for weeks?

 

[ericm979]

The well we had drilled in Oregon recently cost about $18k. It was to 500'. The cost is highly dependent on the depth. The pump and pipe to the surface was about $8k. A good part of that depends on depth too. Still need to run the pipe to the house site and run wiring to the pump. Then there's water treatment. You won't know the requirements until the testing.

Your lender may require a well that delivers a certain gpm and of course produces water that does not contain bad stuff that can't be removed.

The requirements often also apply to existing wells, but you can get the well flow and chemistry tested as part of the buying process before closing. If the lender won't approve you can back out. If you buy a property without a well and the well you drill does not come out good, you may be stuck with a property that you can't build on and is now worth less than you paid for it.

When I looked into it last year it cost about $8-10k to remove a mobile home in Oregon. If it's contaminated in a way that needs special handling (i.e. meth, lead or asbestos) that cost will go up pretty fast.

 

[WinterDeere]

The cost is highly dependent on the depth.

Also on pounder versus driller. Worth a few minutes of research, if you don't know the difference. Around here, pounders are preferred, but take many times longer than drillers, at our typical depths.