Real estate General topic

[Sigarms]

Remember the buyer doesn't care about your personal history, if you paid high, low, or in the middle, etc.

My neighbor just tied herself into knots when she sold. She had a big round figure she liked that was more psychological than connected to any sort of reality or appraisal. So she fixated against that number, which was pleasing to her, instead of market value. She really really wanted that number (I think for future bragging rights) and it complicated things. But-- I recognize and understand we all face our own psychological factors when selling. All of us.

The good news is you are far ahead of the game from home ownership. Do your exercise about purchase price, plus inflation, and then value today. Once that is done, add it the savings that accumulated for so many years had you been paying rent elsewhere. Once you add the "saved" rent, it's a fantastic home run and grand slam.

Years ago I owned a very high end residential property that I lived in. Owned it about 15 years, then sold it for a price that had increased enough that it paid all of my costs to own it-- all the property tax, repairs, utilities, maintenance, upgrades, etc. So I lived in a very high end property for a long time pretty much absolutely free. And that was before considering what I would have paid to live somewhere else.

Such is the beauty of home ownership.

I've looked at comparables in our area and other counties and as of today (or course I understand the market can tank in time) I'm pretty comfortable on what I think we should be able to get vs what is out there.

Heck, for what we paid in 2005 for a large 3 story home with 37 acres, we'll be lucky if we can find something in the exact same price range today for a 1,500 single story ranch type with 3-5 acres IMO (I'm not certain if I should be laughing or crying).

I'm used to buying used cars as I've never bought knew. I know my rules that I've come up with over time not to deviate on what I look for in a used car. Still trying to figure out all the variables with selling a home, but like selling a car or anything else, I'm honestly not out to screw anyone due to the market when it comes time to sell our own home. That's why I am looking at tax values vs asking price with the rate of inflation thrown into the mix.

We honestly think we got a great deal on the house and land in 2005, and have no qualms doing the same when selling. That said, when you sell, you have to buy. Great to sell in a sellers market, but you also have to sell in the same market.

 

[paulsharvey]

So, would anyone read desperate seller; with a description of "Bring all offers", goats negotiatable, ect? I read the ad of Redfin and didnt see it mentiomes, but wife said Zillow or another (maybe sellers agents site?) mentioned a golf cart, and zero turn also negotiatable.

I did a very little bit of reacher on seller; and they did have a LLC xxxFarms LLC, based at this address. Place was built in 2018.

 

[paulsharvey]

Oh, so speaking to value; this home we are scheduled to tour, happens to have a wood burning fireplace. To some, that may ad value, for some completely neutral, and for others, it's higher insurance payments for something they will never use.

 

[plowhog]

So, would anyone read desperate seller; with a description of "Bring all offers",

I've been a licensed broker for many years and that's pretty much how I size it up ....

What you do know is the seller very much wants an offer. What you don't know is how much the seller is willing to negotiate on price and terms. Very often the agent who writes "bring all offers" doesn't have a clue about what the true bottom line is.

You can explore to find out what the bottom line is by putting in a low offer. But if it's below what the seller considers to be insulting, that will queer the deal. So you don't want to be too aggressive if it is a property you really want, and if it's not, why make an offer at all?

I once put in such a low offer, more than $20k below asking price. The seller responded by making a counteroffer $100 less than asking price. Whoops, I angered the seller-- no longer any hope for that deal ....

 

[Sigarms]

Oh, so speaking to value; this home we are scheduled to tour, happens to have a wood burning fireplace. To some, that may ad value, for some completely neutral, and for others, it's higher insurance payments for something they will never use.

I've got to ask, since I hear a lot of guys tell me that Florida is a straight AC with strip heat market and forget using a heat pump, exactly how often does a wood burning fireplace get used in Florida for heating? Or does the place have no central air?

 

[ultrarunner]

I understand why you would do this. It might be the best data available. But it is also fraught with risk, just like looking at Zillow or Redfin.

We upended the entire market, at least according to Zillow and Redfin, when we purchased the "other" 50% equity in our ranch property from a family member. Zillow and Redfin could not or did not discover the sale was only for 50% equity-- so it appeared a regular sale had happened but at a much lower price. That threw off their reported numbers for lots of properties in the area. There are many examples of other ways the numbers can be thrown off.

Regarding tax cost, I've only had experience in the CA and NV markets. I've never used tax cost as a way to determine value-- too many variables.

A lot of buyers look at what other similar properties are being marketed for. But that only gives you asking prices, not sold prices.

A professional appraiser has access to all the prior "sold" comparable properties and ways to adjust for differences. And an appraiser would pick up that our property was for half equity. So, for about $300, you can get the best data possible by ordering an appraisal.

I do understand that we all do the best we can when looking at many properties-- and usually only do an appraisal when narrowed down to purchase time.

Appraiser will also toss the high and the low sometimes or contact the sell agent for more details if the figure seems out of place.

 

[ultrarunner]

I've been a licensed broker for many years and that's pretty much how I size it up ....

What you do know is the seller very much wants an offer. What you don't know is how much the seller is willing to negotiate on price and terms. Very often the agent who writes "bring all offers" doesn't have a clue about what the true bottom line is.

You can explore to find out what the bottom line is by putting in a low offer. But if it's below what the seller considers to be insulting, that will queer the deal. So you don't want to be too aggressive if it is a property you really want, and if it's not, why make an offer at all?

I once put in such a low offer, more than $20k below asking price. The seller responded by making a counteroffer $100 less than asking price. Whoops, I angered the seller-- no longer any hope for that deal ....

I have bought offering full price but with seller financing...

30 due in 7 or 5 and once 3 years

 

[paulsharvey]

I've got to ask, since I hear a lot of guys tell me that Florida is a straight AC with strip heat market and forget using a heat pump, exactly how often does a wood burning fireplace get used in Florida for heating? Or does the place have no central air?

So, FLa is a big state, and we used to have AC w/ straight electric heat strips; that is the minority around here. Most central AC systems will be heat pump heat. Ad for conditioned days; honestly; 365 days per year will be conditioned. For good parts of April/May and Oct/Nov, you might run heat at night, and AC during the day; when we have 80+ highs, and lows in 50s/40s. As to wood fire place for heating; nobody, and I mean nobody that I know, use it for heating. Even if they have a wood burning fireplace, it might get light at Christmas or whatever, but it's mostly for mood, not heat. BTW, yes, we get cold in my part of the state; we get multiple nights in the mid twenties every year.

 

[paulsharvey]

I've been a licensed broker for many years and that's pretty much how I size it up ....

What you do know is the seller very much wants an offer. What you don't know is how much the seller is willing to negotiate on price and terms. Very often the agent who writes "bring all offers" doesn't have a clue about what the true bottom line is.

You can explore to find out what the bottom line is by putting in a low offer. But if it's below what the seller considers to be insulting, that will queer the deal. So you don't want to be too aggressive if it is a property you really want, and if it's not, why make an offer at all?

I once put in such a low offer, more than $20k below asking price. The seller responded by making a counteroffer $100 less than asking price. Whoops, I angered the seller-- no longer any hope for that deal ....

So, if I'm not misreading it; they might not know how to price the property, and maybe they had it listed for 30 days with no hits; and at this point, any offer (accepted or not), helps them to confirm their asking price?

 

[plowhog]

So, if I'm not misreading it; they might not know how to price the property, and maybe they had it listed for 30 days with no hits; and at this point, any offer (accepted or not), helps them to confirm their asking price?

In my opinion 30 days is way too short of a time window to be advertising "bring any offer." We are in a more difficult market due to interest rates, but even so ...

Whoever set the price made a decision, and it isn't always a good one. If a seller interviews multiple agents to possibly work with, the seller naturally asks each one what they would list the property for. Suppose two of them say $250k and the third says $300k "no problem!" Who do you think the seller is going to list with?

This is called "puffing," and it is very effective. Good agents don't do it-- but plenty of agents do. So the seller lists with the "puffer." Then the property is going to languish on the market and the "puffer" will eventually tell the seller they have to lower the price. (But they knew that from the start of course.) Such as price it back down to $250k. It's very slimy, but very common, and it really screws things up and the unprofessional "puffers" make a lot of money by elbowing the good agents aside. And a lot of sellers get tied up waiting for a big payday that never comes.

Sigh.

 

[buckeyefarmer]

I once put in such a low offer, more than $20k below asking price. The seller responded by making a counteroffer $100 less than asking price. Whoops, I angered the seller-- no longer any hope for that deal ....

That's pretty much what happened to me last year on one. However the property I did buy I offered $20K below asking and they accepted, it was a cash deal.

 

[plowhog]

Mine was many years ago-- $100k for a 20 acre lot.

Agent said "cash speaks volumes" so I jumped on it. Offered $80k cash. Counter was at $99,900.

 

[WinterDeere]

I once put in such a low offer, more than $20k below asking price. The seller responded by making a counteroffer $100 less than asking price. Whoops, I angered the seller-- no longer any hope for that deal ....

Sellers play all sorts of games. I was looking at a house with an asking price of $650k in 2010, which really should have been priced in the low $400's. I said as much to the seller's agent, and said I'd make an appropriate offer, to which they told me "don't even bother, they're turning down offers higher than that."

So, I leave without making an offer, and a week later they contact me to request an offer. Okay... so I guess the "don't bother" was just posturing?

So, I make an offer in the mid-$400's, a bit higher than it was really worth, and they reject it on sight. Fine, I withdraw the offer, and make an offer on another house.

Then they come back two days later and ask why I withdrew the offer. They're ready to accept it. What?

I told them to go pound sand, by then I was already in negotiation on the property we eventually bought. The house sat on the market another two years, before eventually selling below the offer I had made them.

I had another seller prior to all of this reject a cash offer, with no contingencies, and accept another offer for the same amount with home inspection, mortgage, and resale contingencies from another buyer. I can only figure the other buyer was a friend or family, as it's crazy to turn down a no-contingencies cash offer, for another with three contingencies for home inspection, mortgage approval, and selling the buyer's prior home.

 

[ultrarunner]

I like that Real Estate is still a business of negotiation.

Seller can ask for the moon and buyers can be creative in crafting offers.

Property is unique as are buyers and sellers.

 

[paulsharvey]

The one we offered on a month or so ago, started at $420, for whole 13.5; we offered $360; hit with counter of $400; we final offered $380k, with all of their other demands, Except, we wanted all 13.5, not just 10 he wanted to lump. Just now, I see, he's down to asking $359.9k, for just the 10.0 acres and home...

Frankly, depending on Fridays viewing; we might circle back with Guy1, and say $340 or all 13.5... I know he was desperate for cash, with his demands for a Largw amount of earnest money.

 

[ultrarunner]

It's a transitioning market where I am after go go go for a long time

Homes falling out of escrow and buyers becoming more selective...

 

[paulsharvey]

I started another thread about a FLa specific, exempt farm building question, but was able to find the answer through some phone calls with the county building and county zoning departments.

Short summary, FLa, Bona Fide Ag properties are exempt from permitting for ag buildings. My question, I buy a formerly Bona Fide Ag property, where they built the buildings under exemption, and I'm not Bona Fide Ag, what happens to the buildings. Short answer, any future plans would require those existing structures to be shown on the site plan, but they are existing structures. Any redevelopment may affect them; but basically, a non-issue.


The reason I bring this up, I'm 95% sure the sheds (including electric and water), as well as the back porch where not permitted.

Edit: this also may come up in the sale of my existing, when we do put it on market; the shed (16x24 enclosed, w/ 12x16 carport) was not permitted.

 

[paulsharvey]

We toured the 12ish acre property this morning. We made an offer, which is significantly lower than asking. The house itself was nice; the porches didn't look very professionally built. Fences also were pretty sloppy. Not included, but they did have a TYM T39 cab, with 6 ft bush hog, box blade, and 6 ft disk. The RV hook up down by the lake had a travel trailer (not included) that their adult son was living in, but no well. Would definitely need a proper shop and a larger carport type set up for mower, tractor and SxS. The Property Owners Association is no longer around as of 3 years ago. Internet access is available (I feel funny every time I ask about that, but truth is, it's important to us).

The land lay out is still kinda funny, and kinda creates 2 separate properties, with a narrow section of woods connecting them. There were signs of a property dispute, where neighbors to the east had cut across the power line, and it's now blocked with stacked power poles.

The current livestock enclosure was OK, but pretty amateur, and nothing but sand and pine trees. Some deer tracks, and I had previously seen turkeys about 1000 ft up the road.

Kinda looks like the current owners have tried doing the 'homestead' thing, in multiple ways, but not really very well. Empty, poorly constructed chicken coop, poorly built wire rabbit hutches, some growing, but small grape trellis.

 

[paulsharvey]

Real estate lady just followr back up, with "they have another showing tomorrow morning, but this might just be a scare tactic". She also said owner wants to know if you want the 5 goats and the donkey? Wife said "we are willing to keep them, but not pay for them". I kinda don't want them, but if they are concerned with rehoming them, I'm OK with keeping them until we have a real livestock plan (which will not involve goats or donkeys; might get 2 steers, or meat sheep, but not goats or donkeys).

 

[Sigarms]

We toured the 12ish acre property this morning. We made an offer, which is significantly lower than asking. The house itself was nice; the porches didn't look very professionally built. Fences also were pretty sloppy. Not included, but they did have a TYM T39 cab, with 6 ft bush hog, box blade, and 6 ft disk. The RV hook up down by the lake had a travel trailer (not included) that their adult son was living in, but no well. Would definitely need a proper shop and a larger carport type set up for mower, tractor and SxS. The Property Owners Association is no longer around as of 3 years ago. Internet access is available (I feel funny every time I ask about that, but truth is, it's important to us).

The land lay out is still kinda funny, and kinda creates 2 separate properties, with a narrow section of woods connecting them. There were signs of a property dispute, where neighbors to the east had cut across the power line, and it's now blocked with stacked power poles.

The current livestock enclosure was OK, but pretty amateur, and nothing but sand and pine trees. Some deer tracks, and I had previously seen turkeys about 1000 ft up the road.

Kinda looks like the current owners have tried doing the 'homestead' thing, in multiple ways, but not really very well. Empty, poorly constructed chicken coop, poorly built wire rabbit hutches, some growing, but small grape trellis.

Given you've seen it, I would stick with your original offer if that was fair in your opinion.