Traction R4344 - split brakes and traction lock

[simonsben]

hello all,

i have been having a problem with my tractor that i can't quite nail down.

the traction lock lever is difficult to engage and consequently it seems difficult to disengage. now this never presents a problem unless i am mowing the pastures and choose to pivot on a rear wheel to make a sharp turn by splitting the brakes and spinning around on the braked wheel. when doing so it will make a gear on gear grinding noise. not good.

the dealer has looked at this but to no avail - but - it wasn't making the noise until recently.

anyone else experience this before? anyone else have trouble engaging the traction lock?

Ben

 

[JDeerekid]

are you saying that you are trying to make a sharp turn with the traction lock lever(differential lock) engaged. If you are this is a big mistake that can cause potential damage to your rear differentials. When engaging the differential lock you are only suppose to go in a straight line foward or back. When trying to make a turn with it lock in the rear tires are spinning at the same speed and cause gears to bind or slip and can cause damage.

I have used my individual brakes to turn but never with the differential locked. And no noise. To engage the traction lock you are suppose to be stopped and then press it down and drive forward or back slowly to allow it to engage.

Hope this helps

 

[simonsben]

are you saying that you are trying to make a sharp turn with the traction lock lever(differential lock) engaged.

thanks for the reply.

after re-reading my post i can see where you would interpret this but, no, i am simply saying it is difficult to engage and consequently it is difficult to know if it is DISENGAGED.

i live in Florida and my use of the traction lock is very limited. in the times i have needed to use it is when i travel in a straight line in subtle off camber situations or if i get stuck in sugar sand (that happens now and then when things are dry here and i am doing road grading). i view the traction lock like a spool in a drag car - it is only intended for straight line use.

I have used my individual brakes to turn but never with the differential locked. And no noise. To engage the traction lock you are suppose to be stopped and then press it down and drive forward or back slowly to allow it to engage.

Hope this helps

this does help and i engage it as you describe - i am admittedly green when it comes to tractors but i am not a novice when it comes to gear driven 4WD stuff and mechanical's in general.

the big issue for me is there is still some strong ambiguity as to its status of engagement.

to diagnose things:
if i step on an individual brake pedal and the lock is FULLY engage the engine will stall.
conversely, if step on an indivdual brake with the front wheels turned in the proper diection and the lock is FULLY disengaged it will pivot on the locked wheel and not make any noise while doing so.

it is those times when i unlock the pedals to pivot and i knowingly have not engaged the pedal in a long time that it makes the noise. but if i engage it and then disengage it seems to go away.

on a side note: rolling forward to engage the traction lock i literally have to pound on the "pedal" with the heel of my shoe to make the pedal move ever so slightly.


ultimately, what i am asking is how easy is it for other R owners to engage their traction lock?

Thank you,
Ben

 

[simonsben]

any other R owners having trouble with the traction lock engagement?

Ben

 

[skipro3]

I"ve got a 4344HST. To engage the diff lock you step down on that little pedal, don't push it down with your hand. To release it, hook a toe of your boot under it and lift up. Spinning on a locked brake doesn't do a whole lot of good to me; I've tried it and it just feels wrong; like I'm working against something internally.

BTW, my dash light for the diff lock never lights up. Does yours? I need to know if I should contact my dealer.

 

[rcowan]

I don't want to steal the thread but where is the diff loc light on the dash??

Roland

 

[skipro3]

Look at the diff lock peddle. There is a symbol on it for the differnetial. Then look at your dash. An identical symbol is on the dash. If it's not lit, then look at it under bright sunlight and you can make out the shape because it's a slightly different shade of black than the rest of the dash. Hope that helps!

 

[simonsben]

thanks for the reply.

when i do get the lock to engage the light does NOT light up.

Ben

 

[Wombat125]

to diagnose things:
if i step on an individual brake pedal and the lock is FULLY engage the engine will stall.

Ben,
I can't help with the diff lock, but I will offer that you should never never push an individual brake with the diff lock engaged. Doing this puts 100% of the engine torque on one axle, putting tremendous stress on the differential, outboard gear reduction, and axle shaft. I wouldn't even do this as a diagnostic measure.

It is slightly possible that this practice is at least partially responsible for your difficult diff lock engagement now.

 

[simonsben]

Ben,
I can't help with the diff lock, but I will offer that you should never never push an individual brake with the diff lock engaged. Doing this puts 100% of the engine torque on one axle, putting tremendous stress on the differential, outboard gear reduction, and axle shaft. I wouldn't even do this as a diagnostic measure.

It is slightly possible that this practice is at least partially responsible for your difficult diff lock engagement now.

thanks for the input - note of caution greatly appreciated - but that is the problem - i do not know beyond a reasonable doubt if the lock is fully engaged or fully disengaged.

to clarify this is not a "practice" of mine.

i have confidently engaged the traction lock four times total - once for diagnostic purposes and twice in an attempt to get unstuck from sugar sand or from an off-camber situation. the fourth time when i got it back from the dealer after their inspection at hour 150. all other diagnostics were performed by the dealer.

i have yet to get the traction lock fully engaged a fifth time.

the tractor now has 251 hours.

the trouble has been there from the start of ownership. i notice the issue at hour #40 when i first engaged the lock - the problem has always been difficult engagement/disengagement. i have owned this tractor since hour #4

Ben

 

[Wombat125]

to clarify this is not a "practice" of mine.

Ben,
Apologies if my statements came across a little harsh.

It sounds like there is definitely something wrong with your diff lock. Most pedals I've seen push hard, but there shouldn't be any stomping involved.

I've heard of several cases of tough or sticky diff locks being the result of mis-adjusted or poorly lubricated external linkages. I would be really happy to hear that it was a simple problem like this in your case. Best of luck.

 

[simonsben]

Wombat125,

i appreciate your input and did not take offense to your statements - i apologize if i came across as defensive.

however, we are talking about a tractor that i really like that does happen to have a sizable investment tangled up in it so i guess some defensiveness is too be expected.

i hope i did not do an idiotic move to damage it further (i, from time to time, do stupid things and end up paying for it later ) but the dealer has assured me there is nothing wrong with the lock or the rear axle.

i am starting to disagree now that it is displaying a noise that is not melodious but more metalic/gear grind with the lock in the fully up position.

i have regular access to a gear driven JD 4300 that has 900 hours on it. its traction lock is nowhere near as difficult to engage/disengage as mine is. the JD is a neighbor's and it was purchased used.

thanks again for the input.

Ben

 

[Wombat125]

i am starting to disagree now that it is displaying a noise that is not melodious but more metalic/gear grind with the lock in the fully up position.

I am not an expert here, especially in Montanas, but I am inclined to agree with you. It sounds like the grinding might be the teeth on the differential lock collar almost but not quite engaging.

A diff lock is a fairly simple device. It is just a pedal (B) that moves a fork (M) to slide a splined collar (S) across the differential carrier to lock the two axle shafts together. Here is a diagram of mine.

I'm still going with the mis-adjusted or unlubricated linkage. It sounds to me like your lever is just sticky. Can you disconnect the linkage right before it goes into the differentail housing and at least make sure all of the external stuff moves freely?

Unless you're a rather stout fella literally jumping up and down on the pedal, I doubt you've done any damage.

 

[WEJ]

My dash has many pretty lights too... a 4340.... but only a few are wired to work... which are the brake light, PTO light, turn signals, other than that the rest are not wired up. I believe this is true of all Montanas....

 

[simonsben]

I'm still going with the mis-adjusted or unlubricated linkage. It sounds to me like your lever is just sticky. Can you disconnect the linkage right before it goes into the differentail housing and at least make sure all of the external stuff moves freely?

Unless you're a rather stout fella literally jumping up and down on the pedal, I doubt you've done any damage.

i have (along with the dealer a couple of times) taken all the linkage out, cleaned and lubricated the linkage, and checked the action of the lock (sans linkage).

they say it works as expected once everything is lubricated but i could not get it to easily engage literally saturated with PTFE. i have since cleaned any excess lube as to not attract debris.

i will be taking it to the dealer in august and i'll watch them try it out this time instead of leaving it for them to evaluate. this way i can be schooled on the proper action of engaging it... or i can school them on how difficult it is to engage.

i am not stout by any stretch of the imagination - i'm 5'7" and 130# with Muppet arms and a red neck - what i lack in size i make up for with patience and determination )

Ben

 

[Wombat125]

i will be taking it to the dealer in august and i'll watch them try it out this time instead of leaving it for them to evaluate. this way i can be schooled on the proper action of engaging it... or i can school them on how difficult it is to engage.

Sounds like the best plan. Please share your results here. We're invested now.

 

[simonsben]

Sounds like the best plan. Please share your results here. We're invested now.

ok - got the tractor back last week.

verdict from the dealer: the brakes.

apparently when i step on the inside brake to "throw the anchor" in a turn i am hearing the outside brake trying to (their word) "synchronize".

the dealer adjusted the brake and the pedal is quite a bit higher. when i tried the technique on their lot it seemed better and the noise was imperceptible. the service rep said this is a normal sound.

i was mowing this weekend - range selector was set on 3rd gear and the transmission was in 2nd gear and throttle was set to pto 540 RPM with pto engaged. i turned left, hit the left brake and the noise was still there - gear on gear scraping sound. it is virtually unchanged.

the traction lock was clearly not engaged and appears to be working normally (though it is still difficult to engage).

i feel like i want a second opinion on this but am unsure where to take it - would a heavy equipment service center be a good choice? should i take it back to the dealer? i am in the North Central Florida area.

 

[mwb]

When engaging your diff lock try driving forward slowly in a slight turn (if stuck then spin one wheel slowly). The splines have to be aligned to engage, chances are that if you are stopped the splines don't line up and stomping on the pedal doesn't help. To disengage, drive forward and turn side to side; if the axles are under load (wheels torqued in opposite directions) the lock will not disengage easily. When you steer to alternate sides the lock should disengage easily.

 

[simonsben]

thanks for responding

When engaging your diff lock try driving forward slowly in a slight turn (if stuck then spin one wheel slowly). The splines have to be aligned to engage, chances are that if you are stopped the splines don't line up and stomping on the pedal doesn't help. To disengage, drive forward and turn side to side; if the axles are under load (wheels torqued in opposite directions) the lock will not disengage easily. When you steer to alternate sides the lock should disengage easily.

right - the traction lock was clearly not engaged and appears to be working normally (though it is still difficult to engage - meaning the lever through the floor is not smooth).

the issue is:
i turned left, hit the left brake and the gear on gear grinding noise was still there. it is virtually unchanged.

is it the brakes or a partially engaged traction lock?

does your tractor make a noise if you split the brake and "throw an anchor" in the turn by stepping on the inside brake?

 

[mwb]

my 3940HST does not make any grinding noise if I lock one wheel. The hydostatic drive may complain slightly (whinning) because of the extra load but that is just normal.

Try this: jack up one rear tire off the ground, place range selector in neutral, 4x4 disengaged, ENGINE OFF, and try rotating the wheel by hand. If you have gear problems you should be able to feel it. You can also play with the diff lock while the wheel is off the ground, get an idea how it engages / disengages.

Cheers,
Mike