Questions before my M6040 Purchase

[air19]

Hi All,

I've been reading various threads on this forum for months and appreciate all the information so far. In the next month I will probably be moving forward on an M6040 purchase and I have a couple of key questions I need to decide on before then. Your help would be appreciated.

As a quick background, I've been a very satisified owner of an M5030DT (60hp with 50 to the PTO), but after 20 years it is spending more time in the shop than I can afford with all the work around here.

We live on a 600 acre forest farm - about 500 acres of forest, 80 acres of fields, and 20 acres of water features. We use the tractor for the following tasks: 1) brushhogging the fields once, sometimes twice a year - takes about 80 hours each time, slow going avoiding all the rocks; 2) snowblowing the road, barnyard, and our cross country skiing parking areas - takes about 2 to 3 hours each time, during a real winter here in Vermont, we could be doing this 2 to 3 times a week; 3) cleaning up in the forest after the logging operations each year - pulling out 10 to 30 trees with the winch, working the rough skidder trails into smooth ski trails with the hoe, box blade, and york rake - we spend about 80 hours each year doing this; 4) doing various loader work moving materials around; in an average year we put about 300 hours on the tractor.

The M6040 is very similar in size to our old M5030DT which has fulfilled all our needs. I would like to make the big jump and get a cab because of all the winter snowblowing and summer brushhogging. The forest work will be riskier with the cab but we are traveling around on 12 foot wide ski trails.

Here are my big questions:

1) I have a big old Dual backhoe that mounts to the 3 point hitch instead of a subframe mount. I use it about 20 hours a year for rock and stump picking, and some trenchwork on the trails. Should I keep it and use it on the new M6040 or is the risk of this 3 point setup too much for the new tractor? My other options without it are to hire an excavator when needed, or think about a new Woods hoe later if I really need it. I'll get $3000 in trade for the old one, which is half way there toward my much desired cab.

2) I would really like to get a grappler for the M6040. With this size tractor should I be looking for a lighter weight grappler in the 350 lb range, or a heavier grappler in the 700 lb range. I would like to move more than just brush piles around. There are some large stumps and rocks that would go.

3) How should I weight the backend - with loaded tires, weights on the tires, or a rear ballast box. I know the easy answer is all of the above, but this tractor needs to go through some wet areas in the fields for mowing, and when we are traveling in the woods we don't want to damage the ski trails by creating tire ruts everywhere. To help here a little, I'm thinking about R4s instead of R1s.

Any advise on these questions would be greatly appreciated. For any fellow M5030 owners here is a picture of one that has done us well for many years.

Thanks, Mike

 

[slowzuki]

1) The hoe should be fine, it doesn't sound like you abuse your equipment. I don't think the new M is much weaker structurally than your 5030. That said the 85 and 95 have stronger hitches.

2) You can handle the larger grapple but it is more money and if you are doing light work the lighter one will last ok. I wouldn't be tearing out rocks with it though, your loader would be able to tweak the light one I think.

3) I would go with R-1's but you can get the wide floatation fronts. This really helps reduce the cutting in when using the loader. The rear weighting, the loaded tires are handy if you always use a loader but it makes it harder to fix flats, and you already know the heavy part. I'm not sure if cast centers are available on the smaller M's but they are a good comprimise. You probably already have a good rear weight in the form of an implement like the backhoe or snowblower.

I'm not sure the wide fronts are listed in the options but the dealer should be able to get them. I've attached a pic of an M6800 with them.

 

[ozzie tractor]

i agree with slowzuki on the hoe etc.
i personally like the wheel wieghts. the wheel weights are available in australia so i assume they are also available everywhere.

 

[air19]

Thanks for the responses.

Those wide front R1s look nice. I will definitely ask my dealer about them.

My dealer talked about another hoe option. He would take my Dual 10-footer in trade for a new Woods 90X hoe for $5K additional. The Woods has a subframe assembly and is the only one I know set far enough away to work with an M series cab model. The subframe is a definite plus to take the stress away from the tractor frame and I'm sure it's easier to mount than my old Dual. The other advantage would be smoother running hydraulics. My hoe jerks around a lot even when I'm trying to just feather the controls. My assumption is that a new one would be a lot smoother for the first couple of years.

I was talking with my dealer about the grapplers and he was strongly suggesting that I go with a heavier duty model, given the strength of the loader. Within the same conversation he talked about the benefits of going up to the M7040 with the front differential and additional horsepower. His upcharge to go from the 6040 to the 7040 was $1600. You can see where this is going. Now I'm thinking about the 7040 and of course then a heavier duty grappler. Someone stop me if they think this is a bad decision.

My dealer hasn't delivered an M series out the door without loading the rear tires. He is very concerned about the tractor stability with the strength of the loader. I'm still hesitant about loading the tires and being heavy all the time. My old M5030 didn't have loaded tires and with a good rear implement as a counter balance, I never had problems with the loader, even with stones. Is the center of gravity different on these newer M series causing more instability? My old M series does weigh 1000 lbs. more before any loading.

Questions Questions Questions.

- Mike

 

[Glowplug]

A heavy grapple (800+ lbs.) should do fine for moving heavy stumps. But you probably don't necessarily need it. Just ask IslandTractor! But THIS grapple weighs over 800 lbs. if I remember correctly.

 

[slowzuki]

Its up to you of course, how much do you really use your hoe? Would it be cheaper to buy a mini-escavator or rent one? A mini can dig a lot and you can get them used for 7000-12000$ in decent shape. Thats a lot of rental time too.

I can't deny there are several benefits going to the 7040 other than more cost.

The ballast problem, I'm convinced unloaded tires ride better, I know they are easier to plug and change when flatted and they make the tractor lighter when required.

That said using a loader without enough ballast is annoying and sometimes dangerous. With cast rims I doubt you need the ballast, and can always pick up an implement. The extendable arms make hitching new tractors up pretty easy.

Its a tough call but you can always get the tires loaded later, but you can't unload them yourself.

Thanks for the responses.

Those wide front R1s look nice. I will definitely ask my dealer about them.

My dealer talked about another hoe option. He would take my Dual 10-footer in trade for a new Woods 90X hoe for $5K additional. The Woods has a subframe assembly and is the only one I know set far enough away to work with an M series cab model. The subframe is a definite plus to take the stress away from the tractor frame and I'm sure it's easier to mount than my old Dual. The other advantage would be smoother running hydraulics. My hoe jerks around a lot even when I'm trying to just feather the controls. My assumption is that a new one would be a lot smoother for the first couple of years.

I was talking with my dealer about the grapplers and he was strongly suggesting that I go with a heavier duty model, given the strength of the loader. Within the same conversation he talked about the benefits of going up to the M7040 with the front differential and additional horsepower. His upcharge to go from the 6040 to the 7040 was $1600. You can see where this is going. Now I'm thinking about the 7040 and of course then a heavier duty grappler. Someone stop me if they think this is a bad decision.

My dealer hasn't delivered an M series out the door without loading the rear tires. He is very concerned about the tractor stability with the strength of the loader. I'm still hesitant about loading the tires and being heavy all the time. My old M5030 didn't have loaded tires and with a good rear implement as a counter balance, I never had problems with the loader, even with stones. Is the center of gravity different on these newer M series causing more instability? My old M series does weigh 1000 lbs. more before any loading.

Questions Questions Questions.

- Mike

 

[Z-Michigan]

My two cents - I would be inclined to get the cast rim centers rather than load the tires. It's clean, simple, and they don't stick out like most wheel weights do.

 

[Glowplug]

My two cents - I would be inclined to get the cast rim centers rather than load the tires. It's clean, simple, and they don't stick out like most wheel weights do.

You could do like I did and get the cast wheel disks AND filled tires! I haven't read through all of this thread but the cast center disks are not available on the M6040. They are available only on the M7040. The M7040 is worth the small extra $$$ IMO.

 

[Z-Michigan]

Glowplug, is the main purpose of your machine to crush rocks and find dormant faults in the earth? Any guess as to how much weight you're carrying on the back end? Must be enormous.

I guess I would be tempted to jump to an M7040 for $1500 or so if you can't get cast centers on a smaller model.

 

[Bob_Young]

Air19,
My new Woods BH90X is quite smooth on all controls except the Boom. It takes a fair amount of feathering concentration when raising the Boom to keep it from jerking up and whacking the stop. I'm new to hoes, but have heard that this is common. With all the weight on the boom cylinder, it at least seems reasonable.

The 90X has a rate control valve on the swing cylinder only. This works well but isn't really needed on that axis. Feathering is easy on swing as the cylinder load is constant and not that large. Someday I might look into plumbing that valve into the boom circuit to relieve some of the jerkiness.

My L4300 is a bit light for the 90X. The hoe drags it around more than I'd like. The M6040 would be ideal for it. In another year or two I hope to be able to justify an M-series.

Woods sent the wrong mounting brackets for the subframe twice. The service dept. head at my dealership had to go direct to Woods engineering to get the right parts. The Woods service rep. insisted the dealership could "make the (wrong) parts work.". Not sure what I would've ended up with if my service guy wasn't so dedicated to doing it right. This little skirmish did delay delivery by a few weeks....but with my blessing.

Don't forget to get a thumb.
FWIW
Bob

 

[air19]

Update on the Grappler: I talked with Millonzi today, first Jackie and then the shop foreman Lenny. I was asking Jackie if they made a "medium duty" somewhere around 600 pounds that would be more suited for an M series tractor. She tracked down Lenny and he talked about how he had done just that for himself.

We talked about my uses and when I mentioned log lifting he said immediately that I would need some type of modified lite duty or the heavy duty. It seems that log lifting places a lot of stress on the sides, more than a regular light duty can handle. Log lifting also works much better if you have two arms clamping down on the log. Lenny has actually taken a light duty 60" and added another 1/2" to each side and some additional cross pieces and it could work well for my needs.

We also talked about their buckets with the sides cut out and two grappler arms. These would certainly be strong enough for my needs. For the 64" at 735 lbs. they come in around the same weight as the heavy duty. With the side cuts they work fine for log lifting, can still handle a good bite of brush. The main tradeoff is less visibility compared to the regular grapplers.

Right now I'm leaning toward a reinforced 60" light duty that would come in around 100-150 lbs. heavier.

- Mike

 

[m7040]

The small dollar amount to go to M7040 is worth it. I have loaded tires and now added cast iron centers that is nice for loader work. Very little slippage when digging in. Also have a 4000 lbs weight box for even more ballast but find that it is not needed most of the time. If the wide front tires are available you should take them because the front tires are marginal in R1 configuration. That will also help on soft ground

 

[RyanL]

Hi, I have been reading some of the post on the new M-series and i am in the final stages of purchase of a M7040. I was orginally going to get a MF 563 and stay brand loyal because my other tractors are Massey's but the kubota is alot nicer and has more features, and seems everyone likes them and seem to be trouble free. Anyway here is what i am getting.

M7040 hydraulic shuttle, Loader, self-leveling, 3-rd fuction on loader, 2 -remotes, toothbar, cast centers, and loaded rears

Orginally was going to go with r-4s but i thought they was to small, so i am going with the ag tires, but the front tires i think are to skinny so i done some research and found a titan tire that is wider and within the same specs, so i told the dealer and he called titan and sure enough it will work and he is just making sure a the wheels have correct backspacing, have to use wheels for turf tires. The dealer is very interested in this tire thing because he said it is a popular question.

Just thought i would share my finding about the tires.

RyanL

 

[air19]

RyanL,

Can you pass on the Titan tire number/specs. I am definitely interested in wide front tire options.

Thanks, Mike

 

[slowzuki]

In Canada the wide R-1W's are an option from the factory. Since we get our rims from the US I'd imagine it can be done down there. I'd say 90% of the M6800's from 2005/2006 had them here. I didn't pay attention before that.

 

[RyanL]

Well, the titan number i have is 360/70R20 R-1W # D122E7 The dealer also said something about a 325/?????? but i can't rember numbers.

So does anyone have anything good or bad to say about these tractors?

Thanks, RyanL

 

[slowzuki]

They've fixed the wiring harness problems the first few delivered had. Not a lot of problems have been reported beyond that. They are a pretty substantial overhaul from the last model.

 

[RyanL]

Tractor/ tire update, well the lastest news on my soon to be purchase of 7040. The dealer talked to the titan tire man is california and the tires i listed previously are no long available, but the titan man said the rear tires and adjustable wheels from a special purpose m series (narrow orchard tractor).
So thes tires was suppose to be shipped to columbus last tuesday, so the dealer sent a truck up to pick them up and they was there, so the dealer called and the never got put on the truck to to be shipped due to inventory stuff or something. So the dealer is calling tomorrow to check on them again and he said if it is going to take more than a week he will let us have the tractor and swap the front tires out later, as long as i did tear the tires up (cutting, excessive wear). Well thats the update

Is there a chance anyone has the size of the rear tires on the orchard tractor and maybe a pic.

Thanks,
RyanL

 

[air19]

Well it's time to ask a moderator to change the title of my thread to an M7040 purchase because that's what I ordered today.

Moving up to an M7040 was an easy decision. I ordered an M7040 HDC (hydraulic shuttle and cab) with the Kubota loader LA 1153. For additional hydraulics I ordered the third function value up front, a second set of remotes in the rear, and a power beyond setup in the rear. The power beyond hydraulic setup will allow me to attach my rear implements with their own controls directly into the hydraulics, like my Valby chipper with it's hydraulic feed chute.

I ordered the rear wiper for the cab because I'll be doing a lot of snow blowing with my rear snow blower. The seat is the most comfortable I've ever sat in for a tractor so I went with the regular seat. Since this is Vermont, I got the block heater. And I asked for three hooks to be welded onto the top of the loader.

The biggest decision regarding the tractor was the tires. After a lot of thought about my particular uses, I ordered R4s with the rears loaded. While many folks have characterized the R4s as a compromise tire, they actually have one area where they really excell that is the most important to me - durability. In the last eight years while mowing our extremely rocky fields and working in the woods, I have gone through 6 R1 front tires. I'm ready to try a different tire type with more plys. If I have any traction problems then I'll just put chains on. I already have a heavy duty winter set and I'll make a second lighter duty summer set. Since I went with R4s the only tire weight options were loading them or wheel weights. I decided I needed something with the loader and grapple work I want to do, so I just went with loaded tires since it is easy, free from my dealer, and I talked to a couple of local tire companies that are all set up to handle it. I'm hoping the wide footprint and less aggressive tread of the R4s will balance out some of this additional wheel load weight.

I decided to trade my old back hoe in as part of the deal - I got a great trade in for my old tractor and this hoe. I have hired excavators before and the amount of work they can do in a hour is more than I could do with my hoe in a couple of days. The trade in will allow me to get a grapple, a tooth bar, a box blade, a hydraulic top link, and still have a little change.

I'm still pinning down my new attachments, but I wanted to get the tractor order in so I could use it soon to finish up all my fall mowing projects. I'll update this thread when I've decided on the attachments.

Thank you everyone for your advise so far. The M5030DT gave 20 years of good work and I'm hoping the M7040 will do the same.

- Mike

 

[n8wrl]

That's really exciting! Lots of M7040 owners here, so I'm sure you'll hear from them. Good luck, and be sure to post pix when the beast arrives! Congrats!!

-Brian