Purchase Dilemma

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/ Purchase Dilemma #1  

MasseyWV

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Recently I had decided to purchase a Mahindra 3215 4WD tractor with FEL, and backhoe, including a box scraper and free delivery from a local dealer for $20,730.00 and applied for Mahindra financing through Agricredit but was denied financing.

Without going into too much detail, I learned that the reason I was denied by Agricredit, was because of a minor "item" that appeared on my credit report. Ironically, the "item" they had found was a mistake and was not even mine. All I can say is that it is their loss because the "delay" they caused has given me time to carefully consider everything and make a better purchase decision as a result.

Initially, I had decided to put my tractor purchase plans on hold indefinitely but after careful consideration, I have decided to buy a tractor afterall. The only difference is that I will be waiting a little longer to save more money, and paying cash in lieu of financing it.

Being turned down for financing was bad enough but what really caught my attention was when the Dealer suddenly acted as if I was a bum or something after they learned that I was not approved. Little did they know that I could have paid cash right there on the spot but the sudden change in attitude ruined any chance they had of making a sale. Besides, paying cash would have required that I take money from our savings which I was not comfortable with doing because the financial security of my family is much more important to me than what amounts to little more than a very expensive toy. Just because I was financing, did not mean that I did not have the money to buy it.

This time around, I will be doing things a bit differently before I make any commitments.

1. Check out the dealer much more carefully.
2. Give other brands more consideration, especially Kubota.
3. Re-evaluate exactly what options to purchase.
4. Save money by paying cash.

With respect to item #2, I had initially committed myself to Mahindra but have begun to think more about Kubota and possibly other "brands" because I would rather not have to deal with the hassle of trying to find actual Mahindra MSRP's to make sure the dealer is not a crook. I can only wonder how many other people are thinking the same thing about a manufacturer who cannot do something as simple as tell consumers what their products should cost. Ultimately, I may still buy Mahindra, but it is no longer a definite.

With respect to item #3, I have decided that my need for a backhoe does not justify the $6000 dollar price tag that comes with it. I will be renting the equipment I need to do my backhoe work, which will cost considerably less.

They say that hindsight is 20/20 and this case is no exception. Lesson learned: Look before you leap.
 
/ Purchase Dilemma #2  
Next time use one of the free credit deals to check. With the loan industry taking it on the chin (years of bad decisions coming home to roost!), they are much more likely to deny credit.

I looked at BH's and decided to get an entire TLB for the price of a new attachments.

jb
 
/ Purchase Dilemma #3  
As has been discussed over, and over, due to shipping factors the MSRP is referred to dealers, as those farther from the source pay higher freight costs. Upon checking many tractor manufacturer websites, most do not list MSRP. It isn't the same as buying a new truck, or car. Many new car buyers are use to seeing MSRP stickers on lots, and use that as a starting point to see how much money they can squeeze out of the salesman's commission.
 
/ Purchase Dilemma
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#4  
AchingBack said:
As has been discussed over, and over, due to shipping factors the MSRP is referred to dealers, as those farther from the source pay higher freight costs. Upon checking many tractor manufacturer websites, most do not list MSRP. It isn't the same as buying a new truck, or car. Many new car buyers are use to seeing MSRP stickers on lots, and use that as a starting point to see how much money they can squeeze out of the salesman's commission.

It is no different than buying a new car or truck and the reason MSRP's are discussed "over and over" is because buyers demand to know the price without the hassle of having to contact a dealer and possibly listen to a sales pitch just to get a price, which would be further complicated if the buyer was considering several different models.

There are numerous methods that the manufacturer could use to show the MSRP on their website if region was an issue. Using the buyers zipcode one such method and displaying an average MSRP is another.

The actual issue here is money, plain and simple. Manufacturers and dealers want to make as much profit as possible and buyers want to save as much as possible.

A good "starting point" would be to eliminate the "salesman" and their "commission".
 
/ Purchase Dilemma #5  
Well that is a good idea, eliminate the salesman, who should be the expert about the tractor. Replace the expert with a vending machine. Works for me. :) No salesman, no dealership, no mechanics.
 
/ Purchase Dilemma
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#6  
AchingBack said:
Well that is a good idea, eliminate the salesman, who should be the expert about the tractor. Replace the expert with a vending machine. Works for me. :) No salesman, no dealership, no mechanics.

My experience tells me that salesman aren't experts at anything except finding ways of taking more of my money.

Personally, I would be very happy to buy direct from the manufacturer thus eliminating the middle-men and saving money in the process. I do my own wrenching so mechanics aren't even part of the equation for me.

A tractor vending machine... that would be interesting to see. Isn't sarcasm wonderful?
 
/ Purchase Dilemma #7  
...but the sudden change in attitude ruined any chance they had of making a sale...

A very interesting issue.

A neighbor recently refinanced his house. Now, he personally has excellent credit, but his credit report showed a few surprises. This where his heart was in the right place, but foolish mistakes. He had co-signed for a motorcycle loan with his grandson, who evidently had missed payments. That kind of stuff.

Anyway, the people doing the re-fi helped him to work through the credit issues. He got the loan, they got their commission, and everyone went home happy.

The Mahindra dealer just lost a sale because they wanted to one-up you instead of working with you...

- - - -

Just my opinion, but if I was seriously considering Mahindra, I would take the time right now to start looking at used machines.

Mahindra does not hold its resale value like Deere, Kubota, etc.

I bet there are machines with a few hundred hours for well under the price of a new one. Let someone else take the depreciation hit.
 
/ Purchase Dilemma #8  
You are going to be finding many used Mahindra's nationwide. Some of them happen to be repossesed. Whatever the case, thousands of people are buying them. If the resale prices are low, successive owners are getting great prices on great tractors. And no matter the color, they all depreciate in value. The bottom line for me, a dealer of any product who earns my respect will get my business.

May we all treat others; as we would want to be treated.
 
/ Purchase Dilemma
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#9  
CurlyDave said:
Just my opinion, but if I was seriously considering Mahindra, I would take the time right now to start looking at used machines.

Mahindra does not hold its resale value like Deere, Kubota, etc.

I bet there are machines with a few hundred hours for well under the price of a new one. Let someone else take the depreciation hit.

I originally considered purchasing a used tractor (and would still entertain the idea) but haven't been able to locate any decent looking newer-model machines with low hours at a reasonable price in my area. Of the few tractors that I was able to find, most were either over-priced or looked like they had been abused.

Ultimately, when I decide to purchase, I just want to find a dependable tractor (new or used) with FEL, that I can easily find parts for, at a reasonable price.
 
/ Purchase Dilemma
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#10  
AchingBack said:
May we all treat others; as we would want to be treated.

In general, I follow this principal but when money is involved I prefer:

Caveat emptor (Latin for "Let the buyer beware").
 
/ Purchase Dilemma #11  
Your on the right track with paying cash. I do not finance anything anymore. If I can't pay cash I can't afford it.(and yes I do have excellent credit) The dealer acted foolishly though by acing the way he did when you were turned down. When you start shopping again look at all the available brands, make cash offers and see who gives you the best deal. My personal choice is to stick to all mainstream brands do to the fact that I trade tractors often enough that resale is an important issue to me. (Skip blasting me about Mahindra going the be #1 someday, I've heard it all before and I'm not knocking them except on resale)
 
/ Purchase Dilemma #12  
AchingBack said:
As has been discussed over, and over, due to shipping factors the MSRP is referred to dealers, as those farther from the source pay higher freight costs. Upon checking many tractor manufacturer websites, most do not list MSRP. It isn't the same as buying a new truck, or car. Many new car buyers are use to seeing MSRP stickers on lots, and use that as a starting point to see how much money they can squeeze out of the salesman's commission.

I really don't see how it is different than buying a car, tractors certainly cost enough. MSRP is just that, and has nothing to do with shipping costs. Shipping costs vary for cars too. What is easy to understand is that Mahindra's, and some other tractor company's policy is to charge whatever the market will bear. Dealers could save a lot of sales expense by just having an auction once a month. The incentives aren't clearly stated anywhere either anymore, and that is very confusing. I got quotes from two local Mahindra dealers, and one was considerably better than the other. Eventually, I found out that one had included all the incentives possible in his quote since he knew I would be paying cash, and the other one had not. I am tired of playing detective, and will probalby not buy a Mahindra though I do like the tractors.
 
/ Purchase Dilemma #13  
It is not all that easy as Mahindra has different incentives on different models in different parts of the country.
Also I have went to bat for many customers who have had turned down credit, and I do get quite disalusioned, because I usually find the customer hasn't been completely honest with me. I do keep trying and give the customers the benefit of the doubt, because it has worked out a few times and completed the sale.
 
/ Purchase Dilemma #14  
Personally, I feel it doesn't matter what shipping costs are, if Lawall gets an incentive to sell 7530's to people with less than a quarter acre, what has his incentive have to do with posting msrp? NOTHING>> people know enough that shipping and possibly some other items are not included in msrp. they are all excuses and the tractor mfg should post some kind of MSRP. Mahindra had it for a short time then dropped it,, I bet is someone checked their count, they probably had the most hits when that MSRP table was posted,,, THeir loss.
 
/ Purchase Dilemma #15  
It's too bad that a minor error on a report created this issue. It is a good thing that you discovered the minor error on your credit. My idea would be to have the error corrected on the report. Then I would find a tractor that I really liked and go with the 0% financing that is available. Put you cash into a CD or some interest bearing account and make your purchasing of the tractor a cheaper purchase.:D

However you go, have a great tractor hunt and remember to send pictures when you purchase.:) We like those pictures...:D
 
/ Purchase Dilemma #16  
Drive sound the area you live and look at what brand is being sold. If green probally good dealier. same for other colors.
I've purchased several used tractors to have a large amount of maintance before concidering them ready for the needed work. A new tractor the size you consider necessary and monthly payments with warrenty might be what I've found is the amount of repairs for a used machine.
Also any equipment purchased is matching the tractor.

And the satisfaction that there is no hidden repairs that might fail soon.
if does break down the warrenty covers.

ken
 
/ Purchase Dilemma #17  
I had something sorta similar happen at my local mahindra dealer. He had a slightly used 3215 with fel for sale at $14000. I said ok, go ahead and run it through, what the heck it only had 67 hours and looked new. It was a local trade to a smaller machine. Agricredit came back and said they wanted $4000 down. I asked the dealership owner why? my credit was very good, so I asked him, is it because they did not like his selling price. He sheepishly said that was it. Long story short, I left and went shopping for new!! Did not trust the guy after that. I could not find any book values for tractors when I tried to do my homework when shopping for a used tractor.
 
/ Purchase Dilemma #18  
greggh said:
*It's too bad that a minor error on a report created this issue. It is a good thing that you discovered the minor error on your credit.

** My idea would be to have the error corrected on the report. Then I would find a tractor that I really liked and go with the 0% financing that is available. Put you cash into a CD or some interest bearing account and make your purchasing of the tractor a cheaper purchase.:D

:D
*Credit scoring and reporting is a big rip off leading to exactly what happened in the original posters case.
The consumer loses the purchase, The dealer/seller loses the sale and the bank loses the loan and everyone is the looser.
It's a no win situation for everybody.
This happens all to frequently.

**That's exactly what I did in 2004 when I bought my BX23 and again back in November when I bought the 2 BX1500s.
I could have paid cash but it would have cost me more money than financing.
 
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#19  
LBrown59 said:
*Credit scoring and reporting is a big rip off leading to exactly what happened in the original posters case.
The consumer loses the purchase, The dealer/seller loses the sale and the bank loses the loan and everyone is the looser.
It's a no win situation for everybody.
This happens all to frequently.

I agree that credit scoring and reporting is a complete rip off. I have begun the process of trying to get the "error" removed from my credit report because it could potentially affect the rates I pay for insurance but getting the credit reporting agencies to actually do anything about it is not easy and can take several months at best.

The credit reporting agencies don't want people to have perfect credit because there would be no reason for people to purchase their so-called "services". Fortunately, I did not pay them a dime, and never will.

The way I see it is simple. If Agricredit (or any other lending institution) doesn't think I am trustworthy enough to pay them back, I am quite happy to pay cash and pay myself the interest that I would have been paying to them. In fact, before I got the "itch" to buy a tractor, I had always insisted on paying cash for everything.

When I was initially denied credit, I did consider myself one of the losers but now that I have had time to look at it objectively, I see myself as the winner in the long run. Not only will I be saving money, but I will be much more educated about all of the "options" that are available to me and better prepared to get best deal possible.

Time is on my side...
 
/ Purchase Dilemma
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#20  
blagg said:
I had something sorta similar happen at my local mahindra dealer. He had a slightly used 3215 with fel for sale at $14000. I said ok, go ahead and run it through, what the heck it only had 67 hours and looked new. It was a local trade to a smaller machine. Agricredit came back and said they wanted $4000 down. I asked the dealership owner why? my credit was very good, so I asked him, is it because they did not like his selling price. He sheepishly said that was it. Long story short, I left and went shopping for new!! Did not trust the guy after that. I could not find any book values for tractors when I tried to do my homework when shopping for a used tractor.

I completely understand your hesitation to trust a dealer.

Maybe it is just the dealers in my area but of all the dealers I have visited so far, my gut has told me to watch out. I especially hate it when a salesman walks out with a big smile on his face "acting" like he is my best friend when he doesn't know me from Adam. Just watch how quickly that fake smile disappears when I walk off the lot.

What is even funnier is how the whole "sales" thing plays out like some kind of game. Like the "absolute best price possible" that a dealer gave me which quickly dropped $2000 after I walked off the lot and contacted a competing dealer who offered a much better price.
 
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