Pulling a disk strain on tractor?

[Alan L.]

I've been disking several acres of heavy clay with my B2710 pulling a 6.5 foot disk harrow with about 200# of added weight on top.

What I notice, pulling it at full speed in medium range, is that the hydrostat whines much louder than usual. You can feel that there is some laboring pulling the disk, although the RPMS don't really go down unless I go up a fairly steep incline. I'm doing about 1800 to 2000 RPMS.

If this was a gear tractor I guess I wouldn't notice anything, but with the HST I wonder with the louder whining whether I am putting undue strain on this tractor. I've got the work to do, and the tractor is doing what I got it for, but I still wonder.

 

[kokopelli2]

alan,
i dont think you are causing any harm to your tractor. i pulled a 6ft disk last year with my 2410 with no problem. in the same thick clay. the only thing i could suggest is try low gear. that is what i had to use and it worked fine.

 

[Bird]

I doubt that you're hurting the tractor, although if it were me, I'd move the RPMs up to about 2200. That just seemed to work better for me doing loader, box blade, or plow work with my B2710.

 

[rf33]

Alan, my tractor also really does feel like it is working pretty hard sometimes pulling my 8' disc. I am sure that your tractor is working pretty hard pulling a 6' disc through heavy clay, but as long as you are not running full steam ahead into rocks, etc, I do not think that your tractor should be harmed by this. If it is, it should go back to your dealer and you should get a green model /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Are you using the 5520 to pull the disc if so it shouldn't feel like it is working to pull a 8'. That tractor should be able to pull a 12' fairly easy in tough ground with no problems.

A B2710 is going to have to work to pull a 6.5' disc as a disc takes roughly 5-6hp per foot to pull. So at 27 engine hp he is overwidth on his disc. He would be better suited to a 5' disc.

 

[Alan L.]

<font color=blue>A B2710 is going to have to work to pull a 6.5' disc as a disc takes roughly 5-6hp per foot to pull. So at 27 engine hp he is overwidth on his disc. He would be better suited to a 5' disc. <font color=black>

That concerns me some, but the 6.5' was the smallest one TSC had the day I needed it last fall. I guess I will keep doing it, with increased RPMs, since I'm only going to be doing it one day 2 or 3 times a year. I supposed the symtoms of over-working the tractor might be overheating? It hasn't done that, or even close to it.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Is it a trailer disc or 3pt? If it is a 3pt it will pull easier as they don't dig as much as a trailer. Either way what little you use it should not hurt your tractor. Take care.

 

[rf33]

Yes I am using the 5520, and it does occasionally start to drag down a little bit with the 8' disc, but only when I have it dropped down as deep as I can go, and when I have the chain harrow behind it. The chain harrow really gets piled up with alot of dirt when running behind the disc, so it probably had alot to do with the overall load on the tractor. I also have the disc set as agressive as it will go, with the gangs running almost 45 degrees to the direction of travel. It does load down the tractor pretty good, but man does it tear up the dirt.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

It still shouldn't drag down so that it is noticable, what gear are you running. If you are running a little fast I would imagine it would be noticable but if you are running in a lower gear that tractor should pull a 10' with a drag behind that with no problem. Is your disc 3pt or transport, a 3pt disc pulls easier then a transport and a 5520 should not strain with it. If you do have a noticable strain I would talk to the dealer and see if he would throw it on a dyno and see what it is putting out just to be sure as it doesn't seem right. I have been pulling a 10' transport with a packer behind a TN 65 which is considerably less hp then your tractor and I pull thru heavy clay with no problem. The only problems I have is in the wet heavy clay and it slows the tractor some but nothing major. I run in 4 low which is a pretty good click with that setup. I would be curious as to if your machine is registering low on hp though.

 

[RobertN]

Keep an eye on your hydraulic fluid. Check it's condition and color. Since you are using it hard, you may want to change the fluid at a shorter interval.

If you are not burning or overheating the fluid, then it's probably just working hard, the way the tractor is made for.

I'm guessing that on the average, most of us on this board work our tractors pretty light compared to what they are designed to stand up too.

 

[frank_f15]

ROBERT: great info on the HP needed per ft of disc used. i was wondering how to gauge that, thanks.

 

[Alan L.]

<font color=blue>Is it a trailer disc or 3pt<font color=black>

Its a 3-point.

 

[rf33]

Robert,

I really think that the tractor is putting out about the 75 HP it is rated for, I am just trying to disc in what is really too high a gear, as to get as much done in the limited time I have to get it done. If I am in any of the A range gears it is fine, and if I am in B 1 or 2 the tractor never loads up, but I have lately been running in B3, B4, and even occasionally C1 and C2 on the third and fourth passes over the ground. I know that this is really pushing it, but I have to get the discing done pretty quick so that I can get the grass planted before the dry season. I think that it is also the really agressive gang angle I am using too, since I did not notice it loading up before I changed it, even in C1 and C2. Please do not try this at home, not that I am a trained professional or anything, I would just hate to see someone else ruin their disc by hitting any rocks, pipes, etc. The area I am discing at this rapid pace is very flat, smooth, and there are not any rocks to be found anywhere.

 

[ns_in_tex]

If you are still concerned, you might try what I did, for whatever it is worth.
I was warned that running a hydraulic motor might cause my oil to overheat, so I went to walmart, bought a indoor/oudoor thermometer, duct taped the outdoor sensor to the hst filter, insulated it, & mounted the display in the cab so I could watch it.
The max I saw last year using the hydraulic motor was 140 degrees or less. Recently when just mowing the lawn with my finish mower, I saw it climb to 160 degrees, so started looking. Found the radiator & oil cooler fairly dirty, even though I had cleaned it 2/3 weeks before.
If the info I receieved is correct, it seems around 140 degrees is good, 180/200 max, then oil starts breaking down.
Hope this helps.

 

[rf33]

ns, this sounds like a good device, but I would caution against using absolute numbers for the safe and or unsafe operating temperatures using such a setup. I think that a setup like you are describing would be great at measuring the relative temperature on a given machine over time, but differences in the thermal transfer of the materials making up the transmission, and the relative heat levels under the tractor itself, this number might not be very useful to compare one tractor to another or to a set numerical standard. If someone else has a more educated opinion on this one, please fill in the large holes in my theory. It seems that this method just would not be very accurate in terms of what the actual temp of the fluid would be.

 

[ns_in_tex]

I do not know how accurate this is. The reason for the insulation over the thermister is hopefully to read the temperature of the filter which has the oil passing inside.
Got the idea because this is the way many heat pumps protect their compressors from overheating, along with using the thermisters to control defrost cycles, etc. I figured if it would work for them, should work for me.
Strickly backyard engineering, or should I say, better than nothing (hopefully).

 

[Robert_in_NY]

That would explain it then if you are running that fast. I have found you get a better finish while going slower but I understand while you are in a rush. I do have to thank you though as I was researching your disc and found out that they make a disc I am looking for in the TW5 series and my dealer is calling them Monday to get updated prices on a 8' and 9'-6" transport with 7.5" spacing. The prices he had were from 99' and the 9.5' was $4k minus hydraulics which they make you pay extra for. Either way it is cheaper then the $7k another dealer wanted for a Taylor-Pittsburg as they are the only companies around that I have seen make a good small disc. Take care.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

<font color=blue>...Taylor-Pittsburg ...</font color=blue>

Hi Robert...

For many years TP has been the OEM for all Massey Ferguson and a number of AGCO implements...

Guess who recently bought TP....?

KingKutter Corp.... /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[Robert_in_NY]

I didn't know KK bought them but I have an old Taylor-Way 6' disc that came with our current place along with a JD M. It is a nice disc as are the new Taylor-Pittsburg's but the cost was too much for me. Monroe Tuffline has a nice disc that reminds me of the International disc's of the 70's. Same basic design and simple to work on and it is also $3k less then T-P's.

It is funny but there are a lot of companies that specialize in a few implements and they build them for a lot of the other companies. I do not think too many tractor companies make their own implements anymore and a lot of them don't make all their tractors either.

Do you think KK will lower the prices on the T-P's implements or did they buy them just to expand their line.

 

[patrickg]

ns-in-Texas.....Neal, For what it is worth, I have done a lot of instrumentation work and if you insulated the sensor well and this means the insulation covers an area significantly larger than the sensor and the insulation didn't get significantly compressed then you are getting about as good a reading as the thermometer is capable of giving provided their are no "unusual" circumstances. Unusual circumstances include: 1. filter body exposed to a lot of cooling wind (environmental or from engine fan), 2. sensor exposed to a lot of exhaust system heat, 3. other sources of instrumentaion error (heat or cooling sources "bothering" your sensor).

In other applications, folks have engineered ways of getting a probe (sensor) closer to the source of heat. Take a simple example: tranny fluid in an automagic transmission auto gets heated by the torque converter's hydraulic slippage and gets cooled passing through the cooling coils in the radiator. Where do you put the sensor? I prefer up stream of the first cooler (air based after market goody or the tubing in the radiator whichever comes first. Why? I want to know how hot the oil got not how well the cooler is working. Both locations would be better but I don't want to have a second crew position in my truck for "flight engineer". I prefer to place the air based heat exchanger (aftermarket) between the tranny and the radiator to shed as much heat as possible before adding heat to the radiator.

I'm not knocking your improv but if there is a convenient way to get at some tubing or whatever as close to the heat source as possible to place the thermometer sensor, you might get a "truer" reading.

I am of the opinion that HST models should have an OEM standard equipment hydraulic oil temp gauge.

Patrick