PT's for the mechanically challenged (again)

   / PT's for the mechanically challenged (again) #1  

Dakar

Bronze Member
Joined
May 16, 2004
Messages
53
Location
Bolivar, MO
PT\'s for the mechanically challenged (again)

Hello everyone. I have been 'lurking' on TBN for some time and would like to thank everyone here for providing such an amazing amount of useful information. The rising prices are leading me to think that it is time I finally take the plunge and make a purchase, before I have to go back to the CFO and beg for even more of our resources to be earmarked for this purchase. So I figure I better get to asking some questions.

I have read back at least a couple of years worth of posts, and the general consensus seems to be that anyone with lower than average mechanical skills would be better off with a tractor that offers better support from a company with a dealer network. Knowing all this, I am still leaning towards the Power Trac. (I'll get back to my reasons why.)

I feel completely comfortable with performing all the necessary maintenance work that I am reading about here, but I am pretty nervous about troubleshooting and repairing any breakdowns that occur. I have checked into the Robin engines and there is a lawn equipment dealer here in town that is an authorized service center for them and will handle warranty work. I have dealt with this company before and feel pretty comfortable with them. The hydraulic portion of the PT has me a little more worried though. I guess the main thing I am curious about is how others have fared in similar circumstances. I get the impression that most of the guys who do the majority of the posting are pretty handy and maybe are not the best suited to answer my questions. How about some of you other guys that have bought PTs but don't own every tool known to man? What kind of experiences have you had with getting repairs done, and/or learning to do them yourselves? When you have a breakdown, have you been able to diagnose the problem and get the machine back in service with the help of Power Trac and the resources available here at TBN? Would you buy a PT again, or would you go with something else?

I will back up here and give a little info on my specific needs and circumstances. We just finished building a new home on 8 acres. The house is built on a hillside that ranges in slope from 10 to 20 degrees as best as I can figure it, with a smallish front yard that is fairly flat. Currently about a half acre is cleared for lawn, but that could grow to as much as an acre later on. Most of this area is also heavily treed, so my tired old MTD lawn tractor gets a real workout, and it takes forever to mow. I also have about 3 acres of pasture that I would like to brushhog a few times per year, and the balance is in timber. I have a gravel driveway that is probably 400' long and has one nasty 20 degree grade. So my needs in order are 1) mowing/hogging, 2) snow removal, 3) drive maintenance and 4) ability to move dirt and gravel for landscape work.

I initially planned on buying an old used tractor, or grey market tractor plus a zero turn mower. Thanks to all the invaluable info here at TBN, I soon learned that 4wd would be a must for the tractor, and that the zero turn idea wasn't so hot, due to the slope of our land. (Also, any tractor I could reasonably afford, be it used, grey, or chinese would have similar service issues to a PT.)

Another huge factor is storage. I designed the house with a walkout basement with an overhead door, so that I could park all the machinery in a shop area of the basement. Unfortunately, those plans went somewhat awry. The slope was so great at the back of the house that I had to go with a retaining wall along the back. In order not to lose the shade trees behind the house (west side) I only ended up with about 10-11 feet to swing into the door. Not much room to manuever a traditional CUT, and my wife isn't going for the idea of her car sitting out to make room for a tractor in the main floor garage. So now I am looking at building a barn, or a tractor sitting out in the weather. Way too many dollars going out at once on top of the new house (which of course, was grossly over budget itself.)

So basically, I am now thinking that a PT 425 with a 48" mower, brush hog, snow blade and a bucket (I'm leaning towards the light material, but willing to listen to arguments) would fit my needs. It works financially, should fit into my garage and hopefully solves all my needs with one machine instead of two. But will I be able to keep the darned thing running? Any and all feedback will be appreciated.

Sorry for the length of this and thanks to everyone at TBN for all the info. Special thanks to Fourteen for braving the wrath of the Chinese Tractor forum and bringing the PT to my attention and to MossRoad for his great website.
 
   / PT's for the mechanically challenged (again) #2  
Re: PT\'s for the mechanically challenged (again)

First of all... welcome to TBN and the Power Trac forum!!

In brief, between a small engine (or diesel) mechanic, a hydraulic shop, and a welder, ANYTHING can be repaired or replaced locally on a PT. There are many more specialized parts and unique OEM componants on any brand of CUT.

The PT-425 seems like it would handle the tasks you laid out, although with the number of acres and pasture you might consider one of the diesel models.

Welocome and good luck,

Rip
 
   / PT's for the mechanically challenged (again) #3  
Re: PT\'s for the mechanically challenged (again)

Welcome aboard, you have some very good questions.
I was in the same boat as you are prior to purchasing my 425 9 months ago.
My mechanical ability runs from 1 to 4 on a scale of 1 to 10. On the other hand I fear nothing and will jump in and try to figure out something. I did contact local repair shops and found that there is nothing on the PowerTrac that can not be fixed by the local dealers. This would be the same as local support from any CUT brand.
Now, the real point I want to make is that I aproached my purchase from the standpoint that my 425 would not be breaking but would need only the normal upkeep maintenance. When you see the 425 and how it is designed you feel it could take down a house.
I have had a few things break but fixed each one myself or had someone come over (weld). The oil changes, grease schedule, filter cleaning etc. is a real breeze. I really enjoy doing the regular maintenance items.
Having TBN and the PowerTrac owners for support leaves me very comfortable.
You mentioned you looked at other CUT forums on TBN. You will notice they all do the same thing, talk about how to repair this or that.
We are here to help you if needed but I think we will probably be here to talk with each other about how great your 425 is and the many projects you have taken care of.
PJ
 
   / PT's for the mechanically challenged (again) #4  
Re: PT\'s for the mechanically challenged (again)

Welcome to the pt forum. I am also from Bolivar, just a different state(PA). I have had my pt 422 for over 4 years and have 600+ hours on it. To date all I have done is change oil, filters, grease , change spark plugs and replace a quick attach hydraulic coupler (coupler was covered by pt under warranty shortly after I got the pt). I am not real mechanically inclined and I believe there are repair shops near me to do any repairs that I cannot do myself. As far as buying another pt I probably would but I might be tempted to go with one larger than my 422 as I have lots of steep hills and we mow over 5 acres with the 48 inch mower. I use the pt quite often to mow over a mile of roads and paths on my property in addition to the 5 acres we mow as our yard. I use my agco allis 5660 to mow several small fields and the roads if I have the brush hog on it , but it is so hard to get the brush hog mounted I usually just use my pt 422 with the finish mower. The pt is very easy to change attachments on compared to the agco allis, and is a lot easier to manuver.
 
   / PT's for the mechanically challenged (again)
  • Thread Starter
#5  
Re: PT\'s for the mechanically challenged (again)

Thanks Rip and Pajoube for the replies. I would love to go up to the 1430 and get the diesel, but the bucks dictate otherwise. Actually, I had to hide the 180 and 422 price sheets from my wife, or war would have broken out! Pajoube, I hope to some day be able to post pictures of projects that are half as impressive as yours.

Ernemats, you really got me excited when you said you were from Bolivar. I was half way out to my truck to head over to your house for a test drive before I saw PA. (Is Bolivar, PA also named after the liberator of South America?) Sounds like you really use your 422 hard, and it is encourging to hear that it has been so trouble free. Thanks again for the replies, and after rereading my first post, I didn't mean to imply that I don't want to hear from you mechanical wizards. Your input is also appreciated.
 
   / PT's for the mechanically challenged (again) #6  
Re: PT\'s for the mechanically challenged (again)

Me thinks you'll make out fine. Just take the time to think about problems in a logical manner. No one can be a Master at everything.

Egon
 
   / PT's for the mechanically challenged (again) #7  
Re: PT\'s for the mechanically challenged (again)

Welcome to TBN! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
   / PT's for the mechanically challenged (again) #8  
Re: PT\'s for the mechanically challenged (again)

Dakar,
Have you talked with your local Robin shop about the specifics of the Robin engine in a PowerTrac? My local "authorized" Robin service center all but refused to work on my tractor because it was "too hard". If you're going to depend on them for service, you might want to make sure they understand how the engine is installed in a PowerTrac and get assurance that they're willing to do what's necessary (i.e. pull the engine out of the tractor) if required. Lessons learned.

All that said, I'd put myself at about the same level of mechanical aptitude that you've rated yourself, and with the help of folks at TBN, Jack at Robin America, and local gearhead friends, I've managed to tackle the few problems I've had.

Scott
 
   / PT's for the mechanically challenged (again) #9  
Re: PT\'s for the mechanically challenged (again)

welcome to TBN, i also have a 422 a had a little trouble with the engine.yes, the dealers are scared of the power-trac and it's hyd.set up. they seem to have it in their head they have to start ripping off hoses. so just pull the engine your self and take it to them. I had the engine out and on the back of the truck in a little over an hour.it is very simple no special tools /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif after that the carb. had a dirt problem a simple cleaning that was it, i still put 200 hours on it in a year and a half. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
 
   / PT's for the mechanically challenged (again)
  • Thread Starter
#10  
Re: PT\'s for the mechanically challenged (again)

Thanks guys for the replies. Definitely more food for thought. You have me leaning more towards the PT all the time.
 
   / PT's for the mechanically challenged (again) #11  
Re: PT\'s for the mechanically challenged (again)

"" don't own every tool known to man ""

About all you need are: a socket set, a few open end wrenches, and a telephone to call Power Trac for instructions!!


"" about 10-11 feet to swing into the door ""

The PT-425 will make a U turn inside my 2-car garage!!


"" leaning towards the light material ""

Get the Grapple Bucket!!

e_Left_Front_Canopy_a_.jpg



"" food for thought ""

Stop chewing it over! Bite the bullet, and buy the PT-425!!


PS: These are rugged, high quality machines that should seldom require much more than normal maintenance!

/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
   / PT's for the mechanically challenged (again)
  • Thread Starter
#12  
Re: PT\'s for the mechanically challenged (again)

Thanks Fourteen. I think that is exactly what I need is a kick in the pants to quit worrying about it and just buy one. And I just happen to own all the tools you listed. Does the upper 'jaw' detach from the grapple bucket for just moving dirt or gravel around? The grapple feature would be darned handy for some things, but I am wondering if it would just get in the way for most of my uses. Man, I sure could have used it when I was clearing our building site by hand, and cutting down 21 large oak trees with my trusty chain saw. Oh well, it was good therapy and I was in no hurry.

You know what you need to do for your next customizing job on your 425? You should add a pair of those open shark's mouths on the sides of your bucket like they used to paint on the P-51s in WW II. That would look awesome with your white bucket teeth.
 
   / PT's for the mechanically challenged (again) #13  
Re: PT\'s for the mechanically challenged (again)

I've got a 14-year old PT-1418, and it's still running strong. With this age, the problems I've had to address have been 1) hoses needing to be replaced (not difficult, but they are hard to get a wrench on sometimes), 2) leaks in the hydraulic motors or cylinders...I had to replace one of the wheel motors, and 3) electrical short with the engine (which I pretty much caused myself)....that one required a trip to a local hydraulic equipment repair shop.

Do you have anywhere locally that sells, rents, and/or repairs Toro Dingo's (or Kanga Loaders or any of the other work-alikes, or even smaller skid steer loaders)? If so, that kind of shop should be able to easily handle any repairs to a Power-trac. PT's are much more mechanically similar to a skid-steer or a Toro Dingo than they are to a conventional CUT. Conceptually, they are very simple...an engine turns two hydraulic pumps, which pump fluid through an open circuit back to the tank. When you move a valve or the treadle, that essentially diverts the pressurized hydraulic oil into/out of a cylinder or wheel motor to actually do work.

One thing mentioned above that I'd like to second...even though you may have a Robin engine repair shop local, don't assume that they 1) know enough about hydraulics that they're willing to work on something that they're unfamiliar with, and 2) they are equiped to be able to pull the engine out if necessary. Ask them about these two things...my old machine has a Briggs and Stratton 18hp engine and there's plenty of B&S service centers in my area, but most of them only work on the smaller lawnmower engines, etc. One shop had a person who was certifed on the larger twin cylinder engines, but they didn't have room in their shop for a PT. One of the other shops said "Hydraulics? We ain't go nobody that knows how to work on no hydraulics." Alrighty then...a local shop that rents and sells Toro Dingo's did an engine repair on mine (which required pulling the engine out), and I found a big equipment seller and repairer who is actually more economically priced than this smaller shop (they had the best price on rebuilding or replacing the wheel motor that I had to replace...and that even includes Internet sources of this particular wheel motor...I was quite pleasantly surprised...they work on some huge equipment and I just expected that they would be ridiculously expensive. I took the wheel motor out myself and took it to them).

When I got this machine, I knew absolutely nothing about hydraulics (and still don't know nearly enough about small engines). But, like I said above, it's conceptually pretty simple (although looking at the tangle of hoses in the engine compartment can be quite intimidating!). That said, with a new machine, the most challenging thing that I'd expect you to have to do for several years (barring some mfg problem like the Robin ignition coil from earlier posts) is to change the hydraulic oil filter. You have to bleed the hydrostatic drive pump, but it's a pretty simple process (put the new filter on, unplug spark plug wires, hook a hose to a bleed port on the pump and put the free end in the hydraulic tank, crank the engine until you don't see any air bubbles, then take the hose off, and hook the spark plug wires back up...done!)

Just as an observation, I think the smaller Power-tracs are going to REALLY introduce some competition to some of the lawn tractor manufacturer's as they become more well-known and popular. I think Power-trac has found a pretty substantial niche...

HTH,
Dave
 
   / PT's for the mechanically challenged (again) #14  
Re: PT\'s for the mechanically challenged (again)

"" Does the upper 'jaw' detach from the grapple bucket for just moving dirt or gravel around? ""

No, but when the Grapple is fully open the Fangs are not at all in the way!!

Grapple_TBN.jpg


When you encounter a rock or root while digging, you can easily grab it and remove it!

The included Rock Teeth, which are removable, bite into hardpack much better than the straight edge. They also perform a raking action when pulled in reverse.

Although the LM Bucket is rated to have twice the volume, I seldom actually get more dirt or gravel picked up!! I usually get the Grapple Bucket full or the LM Bucket about 1/2 or 2/3 full!

Remember, when you buy the Grapple, you get a HD Bucket and a set of Rock Teeth for free!! For me, the Grapple Bucket is the most useful and versatile attachment to own!!

More painting will have to wait for nasty weather! Right now I'm too busy using it!!

After a few hours of seat time I'm sure you will say: "What the H*** was I waiting for!!??!!"!!

/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
   / PT's for the mechanically challenged (again)
  • Thread Starter
#15  
Re: PT\'s for the mechanically challenged (again)

Thanks Fourteen. Didn't realize just how far the jaws opened. Very impressive picture too. That is one scary looking beast in that pose.
 
   / PT's for the mechanically challenged (again) #16  
Re: PT\'s for the mechanically challenged (again)

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( One thing mentioned above that I'd like to second...even though you may have a Robin engine repair shop local, don't assume that they 1) know enough about hydraulics that they're willing to work on something that they're unfamiliar with, and 2) they are equiped to be able to pull the engine out if necessary. )</font>

I'm with Dave on this one. When our PT-425's Kohler bent a pushrod, it became painfully evident that not too many small engine repair places are equipped to pull an engine out of a PT. Some can't even get one in the door.

I'm not kidding here. One place had wooden ramps that looked like a termite factory, another had 45 degree ramps, and a couple simply couldn't fit it inside the building. To quote one repair shop receptionist after being shown a picture, "My God; it's a tractor!"

Getting some 1200 lbs of dead PT inside a small shop--it's not an easy thing to do. I ended up pulling the engine, and taking it to the shop.

It is also likely that the engine manufacturer will not pay the full cost of removal from the PT. They generally have fixed allowances for removal which they will not pay in excess of. Taking an engine out of a PT tends to be much more complicated than pulling one out of a lawn mower.

SnowRidge
 
   / PT's for the mechanically challenged (again)
  • Thread Starter
#17  
Re: PT\'s for the mechanically challenged (again)

Thanks a lot Dave and Snowridge. Just when I almost had the nerve up to take the plunge, you guys are scaring me all over again. Seriously though, I appreciate the advice, and it is definitely food for thought. Sounds like the engine removal and reinstallation were not exactly simple jobs.

I am waiting for PT to get back to me with info about PT owners nearby. I hope to at least be able to look at one before deciding. In the meantime, I will drop by the local repair shop with a brochure and see what they say. The good news is that all this indecision is not costing me more money again (so far). According to Christie at PT, the prices should remain the same in the short term.
 
   / PT's for the mechanically challenged (again) #18  
Re: PT\'s for the mechanically challenged (again)

<font color="blue">( Thanks a lot Dave and Snowridge. Just when I almost had the nerve up to take the plunge, you guys are scaring me all over again. Seriously though, I appreciate the advice, and it is definitely food for thought. Sounds like the engine removal and reinstallation were not exactly simple jobs. )</font>

I personally don't want to discourage anyone, but I do think that potential buyers should have realistic expectations. Getting 'engine alone' warranty service is not necessarily simple. In some cases it may turn out to be simple--in others it may be problematic.

Removal and reinstallation aren't all that difficult, although there are a couple of spots that take some grunt work. Of course, the different versions of the different PT models may be easier or harder to work on than mine. A dead PT-425 can be horsed around by one person on a hard flat service once the pump is bypassed and the steering rams are disconnected. The bigger models would pose more of a problem, and at some size point would be unmanageable without extra hands or power assistance.

As long as a potential buyer is a half way decent mechanic (or can call on one), and goes into the purchase with open eyes, I don't see a problem.

SnowRidge
 
   / PT's for the mechanically challenged (again) #19  
Re: PT\'s for the mechanically challenged (again)

Well, don't let us scare you. It's just better to make a fully educated decision. With any other tractor, you can have the same problems. With a tractor from a local dealer, they might come out and pick it up, fix it, then bring it back to you. However, I doubt this service is free, even if the tractor is under warranty. Someone correct me if I'm wrong...I'd imagine it depends on the specific dealer and if they're willing to pickup/deliver for free (which is probably a function of how much money they made off of your purchase and how much expense is covered under the mfg's warranty). That considered, you probably come out about the same money-wise...it's just your responsbility to find a local shop who can do the necessary service rather than having a default dealer to engage.

The good news is that you probably have a few to choose from, whereas in the other case, you'd probably only have one dealer to choose from (which equates to "take it or leave it"... /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif)

HTH,
Dave
 
   / PT's for the mechanically challenged (again) #20  
Re: PT\'s for the mechanically challenged (again)

Dave,
It does depend on the dealer. My boss has a tractor and the dealer is pretty far away, but they will come out and do the warranty maintenance free of charge. They will also pick up and drop off for free under warranty and are said to be very reasonably priced for non-warranty work. An outstanding dealer. We also have a dealer of the same brand that is, in my opinion, a lazy slug. That just goes with about everything and anything that you buy regardless of brand. There are good dealers, bad dealers and a lot in between. The good ones seem to stay in business for a reason... customer loyalty.
 

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