PTO speed stability

[tsteahr]

Hello,

I am on the verge of buying a PTO driven 10KW IMD generator. It will be driven by my brand new MF GC2410. This tractor has a PTO rating of 18.7 hp. I realize a 10kw generator is slightly over sized for this hp and I will no be able to get the full 10kw. I'm guessing I can expect somewhere around 9.3kw. My concern is with the speed stability of the tractor driving the generator. Can I expect the tractor to hold PTO speed rpm closely enough to be able to use this setup for backup emergency power for the house?

I am looking to be able to have motors such as a deep well pump, oil furnace blower, refrigerator and some lights cycle without problems. The loads will be balanced across the generator legs as best as possible.

Does the speed governor on the MF hold speed closely enough to 540 so I will get a stable 60Hz from the generator?

If the tractor can hold rpm close enough with cycling loads (within its power limits) then I am ready to make this $2k+ investment. If the tractor rpm is going to sag and surge with every change in load then I have to look elsewhere for backup power.

Is my expectation to high for this little tractor?

 

[E/S]

Not being familiar with your tractor I can not say weather it will handle the load.
But having said that, IMO after living on a generator property for 15 years, taken care of over a dozen back-up power units for the municipality I work for, you are not going to be happy with this arrangement.
The power will not be stable and will need constant attention.

E/S

 

[jnjpream]

Can you get a standalone generator for that kind of money? If you can, you might consider that instead of having to run your new tractor at WOT all day until they get your power restored.

If you had to run power tools, augers, etc. out in the field or something I could see the PTO generator, but power outages can last for a while depending on how rural you are and how big the storm was.

Just some food for thought..

Jeff

 

[Kubota 2350]

I too would go for the stand alone generator, you can buy a very nice 10,000 watt for the same kind of money.

Take a look at Nothern Tool, they have some great buys on them.

 

[tsteahr]

I appreciate the input about the stand alone. I know the topic of stand alone has already been discussed extensivly. I will just say I had a Home Depot gas stand alone in the past and I won't have another. A high quality 10kw tri fuel stand alone (not made in china) is easily $3k plus the cost setting up a propane tank and connection. Essentially the same cost as a similar sized high quality standby. I believe you generally get what you pay for.

I'm really interested in hearing from anyone who actually used a pto generator driven by a scut as emergency power. Does the governer on the GC2410 keep the speed constant over time (hours) and not surge and sag with load changes (assuming the engine is not overloaded)?

 

[fish6942]

What are the chances that you'll be needing the tractor to clear snow at the same time the power is out?

 

[brin]

I appreciate the input about the stand alone. I know the topic of stand alone has already been discussed extensivly. I will just say I had a Home Depot gas stand alone in the past and I won't have another. A high quality 10kw tri fuel stand alone (not made in china) is easily $3k plus the cost setting up a propane tank and connection. Essentially the same cost as a similar sized high quality standby. I believe you generally get what you pay for.

I'm really interested in hearing from anyone who actually used a pto generator driven by a scut as emergency power. Does the governer on the GC2410 keep the speed constant over time (hours) and not surge and sag with load changes (assuming the engine is not overloaded)?

I am here to tell you that your PTO generator should work just fine...I have a 20 KW PTO generator and a 29 HP New holland TC-29 and it runs it just fine, as you can see with my horsepower I have more generator than I can use but as in your case that is good when there is a surge like when a furnace motor or well pump motor kicks on it will not bog down like it would if you had a smaller generator. With a stand alone generator you have another motor to maintain that you do not use often enough to keep it is good running condition so when you do need it you have to try and get it started and you don't want to have to go through cleaning carbs, draining old gas and replacing spark plugs in the dark..All I can tell you is mine works and the tractor holds the speed very well...you just have to know how many hours until your run out of fuel..Mine runs 7 hrs. at 540 RPM ..so at about 6 hr of running time I go refuel and check the oil and crank it back up. As I am sure you have noticed on other threads there are many opinions regarding back-up generators. You are wise to stick with those that actually own and operate PTO generators...hope this helps.

Also let me add you can go out now and with your bush hog or without it just move your throttle up to 540 PTO rpm and see how it holds..and I'm sure you will see it holds just fine..now when a furnace motor or well pump kick in it will just be a momentary power demand - just a few seconds of surge and if you are standing close to the tractor you will hear the motor momentarily strain but just momentarily...see you have a larger than needed generator capacity and that really helps but even if you did not the drain on power is so short it is not a factor. Think of bush hogging at 540 RPM and you run over a mound of dirt or a large ant hill or a real high thick patch of grass, then you will feel a momentary demand on power and then you go on....same thing or there would not be so many of us out here using PTO generators. Here in Georgia, poultry farmers depend on them for back up power for their chicken houses and you know how many thousands of dollars they would lose if they did not work...too wordy...but I want to be sure you have all the info.

 

[tsteahr]

Brin,

Thank you very much for sharing. I am glad to hear the tractor pto generator can be effective. You are correct that the motor holds motor speed quite well when the load changes while mowing. I should expect similar with the generator. It is also reassuring that your tractor holds the 540rpm speed for hours. Not much point if I had to reset the throttle every 20 minutes. But again, one can mow for a long time at the same throttle position and not have the rpm speed drift.

I also thought oversizing the generator was a better approach. I'm glad to hear you confirm this. I feel much better with input from someone with first hand experience.

As far as stand alone vs. pto, it seems that is a choice each person needs to make for their own specific situation. One just needs to understand all the tradeoffs before making a decision.

 

[brin]

Tom,

You are quite welcome for the info and keep in mind when you have a power failure and have your tractor powering the generator it is no big deal to warm the house up and tell the family that you are going to unhook the power for an hour or two to plow some snow or push a fallen tree out of the way...then you just come back and plug back in and the house has probably not even cooled down that much..so it's not a huge sacrifice when all others are without power all the time..LOL

 

[tsteahr]

Tom,

You are quite welcome for the info and keep in mind when you have a power failure and have your tractor powering the generator it is no big deal to warm the house up and tell the family that you are going to unhook the power for an hour or two to plow some snow or push a fallen tree out of the way...then you just come back and plug back in and the house has probably not even cooled down that much..so it's not a huge sacrifice when all others are without power all the time..LOL

My thoughts exactly!

Cheers!

 

[E/S]

You had better be home and awake when the power goes out.

E/S

 

[tsteahr]

You had better be home and awake when the power goes out.

E/S

In a perfect world I would call my local Kohler Power Systems dealer and hand him a check for $8k. Problem solved. Unfortunatly I live in the world of compromise.

 

[E/S]

In a perfect world I would call my local Kohler Power Systems dealer and hand him a check for $8k. Problem solved. Unfortunatly I live in the world of compromise.

Me too, that is why I bought a used 15 kw Kohler unit.

E/S

 

[tsteahr]

Me too, that is why I bought a used 15 kw Kohler unit.

E/S

Tough compromise

 

[Soundguy]

why do you think they even make pto run gensets???

if yer tractor is brand new.. it's governor function will be good and crisp, and it's engine fresh.

since the 2hp per kw is only a rule of thumb anyway.. and a new machine is very likely to have hp in excess of it's actual rating.. you may very well be able to realize the full 10kw.. though perhaps not any surge value. no biggie.. it's a good match.

I have a northern 12.5k pto genset I have run it on a variety of my tractors from a 52 ford 8n, a 55 ford 660 and a 75 ford 5000 all ran it fine. the 660 ran it the longest .. ie.. daily for weeks till power got ran out tot he back of my farm.. it handled a well pump cycling on and off as well as power tools while I was fencing and watering the property.. the old gov onthe 660 held her inthe green zone on the well cycles with no issues... needle did float a lilinthe green.. but stayed in the green.

2k+ for a 10kw head? YIKES.. I'm in the wrong business.. mine cost me 999$.. and may be up to ? 1100 or 1200$ by now.

Shop around as the song says..


soundguy

Hello,

I am on the verge of buying a PTO driven 10KW IMD generator. It will be driven by my brand new MF GC2410. This tractor has a PTO rating of 18.7 hp. I realize a 10kw generator is slightly over sized for this hp and I will no be able to get the full 10kw. I'm guessing I can expect somewhere around 9.3kw. My concern is with the speed stability of the tractor driving the generator. Can I expect the tractor to hold PTO speed rpm closely enough to be able to use this setup for backup emergency power for the house?

I am looking to be able to have motors such as a deep well pump, oil furnace blower, refrigerator and some lights cycle without problems. The loads will be balanced across the generator legs as best as possible.

Does the speed governor on the MF hold speed closely enough to 540 so I will get a stable 60Hz from the generator?

If the tractor can hold rpm close enough with cycling loads (within its power limits) then I am ready to make this $2k+ investment. If the tractor rpm is going to sag and surge with every change in load then I have to look elsewhere for backup power.

Is my expectation to high for this little tractor?

 

[tsteahr]

why do you think they even make pto run gensets???

if yer tractor is brand new.. it's governor function will be good and crisp, and it's engine fresh.

since the 2hp per kw is only a rule of thumb anyway.. and a new machine is very likely to have hp in excess of it's actual rating.. you may very well be able to realize the full 10kw.. though perhaps not any surge value. no biggie.. it's a good match.

I have a northern 12.5k pto genset I have run it on a variety of my tractors from a 52 ford 8n, a 55 ford 660 and a 75 ford 5000 all ran it fine. the 660 ran it the longest .. ie.. daily for weeks till power got ran out tot he back of my farm.. it handled a well pump cycling on and off as well as power tools while I was fencing and watering the property.. the old gov onthe 660 held her inthe green zone on the well cycles with no issues... needle did float a lilinthe green.. but stayed in the green.

2k+ for a 10kw head? YIKES.. I'm in the wrong business.. mine cost me 999$.. and may be up to ? 1100 or 1200$ by now.

Shop around as the song says..


soundguy

Thanks for the info soundguy. I was concerned it would only be suitable for short term like running a welder out in the woods. With the info you and Brin have provided I have no reason to be concerned. I am looking at the IMD unit. They are a sponsor of this site. I was a little misleading on the $2k number. The unit itself is about $1200 directly from IMD. The auto voltage regulation adds another $150, the 3pt hitch mount is another $280, I need a pto shaft which added another $180. That gets me to $1800 plus another $150 for shipping. I will also need to install a 200amp transfer switch, outlet, cordset and some conduit and wire. When all is said and done I'm looking at $2700. I could save $150 buy not getting the auto voltage reg, but that seems silly when I'm spending this much already.

I have found a couple alternatives to the IMD. Just looking at the gen head itself, Winco makes a nice unit, but it is quite a bit more expensive at $2k for the 11kw. The smallest Onan I found is 15kw and over $3k. There is a 12kw GeneratorJoe that is similar price to the IMD, but I can't find much about who actually makes the GeneratorJoe unit. The IMD seems a little nicer.

I'm not interested in the Harbor Freight unit.

Are there any other brands I should consider?

Thanks!

 

[Soundguy]

I didn't mention harbor freight.. I mentioned northern tools.

the active regulation is a great choice.. though i seem to be getting along fine with passive.. if it's a semi-dedicated house unit.. you can't 'loose' by going active.

180$ for a po shaft is about 80$ too much.. and 180$ for a 3pt carry-all is about 100$ too much.. nboth of those are local TSC items that you can pickup and avoid the shipping costs. Chewck yer local tractor dealers as well.. I see winco gensets on towable trailers or box skids at my local NH dealer.. you never know what yer local dealers may ( may not ) have.

yer tractor should be able to make pto rated power for more or less continous duration at least up to it's fuel capacity. Lord knows I've mowed dark to dark with my tractors making pto power all day only stopping to take a leak and fuel the tractor.. etc.. that's what they are for... not like a car engine that canmake top hp for a few seconds, then run at just above idle the rest of the day while in overdrive...

soundguy

 

[petegoud]

A couple of years ago I built a PTO driven 12000 watt generator I purchased from Northern Tool. I'm running it off a older Kubota L245DT tractor. I now consider it only as a backup for my standalone 12000 watt generator. The standalone is powered by a BS 24HP, and the PTO is powered by 23HP at the PTO. The standalone will tolerate different loads much, much, better than the PTO one. To me, the only advantage the PTO generator has over the standalone one is in fuel economy. That would be outweighed if at any time during the emergency you needed to use your tractor. Hope this helps. Pete

 

[Soundguy]

that's easy.. just have 2 tractors! The tractor will likely start when needed vs the lawnmower engine..

I want my backup power to be run by an engine that costs a few thousand bucks.. not by one that has 'realatives' that mow grass

soundguy

 

[tsteahr]

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention Northern. Years ago the Northstar generators were made in the USA. They don't advertise that anymore. A electrician I work with has told me they are not the quality they once were. I don't know it that is true or not. In any case it's 13kw, $1400 with cap voltage reg. They offer a mounting plate for $50 but then I have to fab up a mount to get it into a universal carry-all like soundguy suggested. That option seems like more work for similar money, rather than the generator manufactor 3pt hitch already ready fabbed up to take the specific gen head.

I really would prefer to buy somthing made here. (Or at least assembled here). The US gen heads I have found so far are IMD, Winco, and Onan. Are there any others?

BTW, Good tip about calling local tractor dealers to see if they have anything sitting around they want to move. I'll do that tomorrow.