PTO Grass Vacuum

[Agent Blue]

Anyone build or own a PTO powered vacuum for lawn care ? I am about to use my imagination and build one. I have some parts, pieces, and a blower housing. If it don't work I won't be out much but time. The pine needles have won in the past. I hope this will be their downfall.

 

[Groo]

I don't see why a blower wouldn't work, if the squirrel cage is strong enough. I'd probably have it sucking the mower discharge (if you have a belly mower) to make sure anything you suck gets a chance to chopped first.

Do you know what speed you blower was designed to run at?

 

[Agent Blue]

The fan is 12" with 4" paddles. Have no clue what speed it turned in a former life but with these pulleys the calculator indicates 3139. The fan will be 4' from the mid mounted mower chute with an 8" flex hose connection. I have no doubt if it runs without vibration it will create the lift necessary to empty the deck of swirling debris.
I am surprised with the number of sub compacts with PTOs this style would not be more common. A gearbox would work great but they don't create the speed needed or the right angle fan position to keep the hose close to the tractor. If you have alot of obstacles ie trees / bushes.. the width is important.

 

[Wyobuckaroo]

You said, 12" fan with 4 paddles.........
That tells me it is designed to move some kind of product suspended in air. Not just air alone.

Go for it............ And post LOTS of pictures of your build and results.

Good luck :thumbsup:

 

[SPYDERLK]

How much HP do you have. Will you be mowing and vacuuming at the same time?
larry

 

[Groo]

You said, 12" fan with 4 paddles.........
That tells me it is designed to move some kind of product suspended in air. Not just air alone.

Go for it............ And post LOTS of pictures of your build and results.

Good luck :thumbsup:

I am pretty sure there are more than 4 paddles. I think he meant 4" wide paddles.

 

[Agent Blue]

Four paddles, 4" deep. This housing / fan came out of a lawn vac that one walks behind. It is going to be operated by a 21 hp JD diesel. The mid mounted mower and the vacuum can be used seperately by moving a selector lever. If it takes too much power the frame can be used to bolt in a four cycle engine. Still eliminates the trailer and its width / turning / backing problems. I bet it out performs a leaf rake, especially on a large lawn.

 

[Maxfli]

I have a TRAC VAC 856 on my JD 2210. Here is a link to the parts catalog.
http://www.trac-vac.com/PDFF/Model854-856man.pdf

 

[Agent Blue]

Maxfli;
Just what I was looking for... a factory unit. Can you check the input / out put on the gearbox and tell what the ratio is ? That would give me some idea on how fast my fan has to turn.. we should have the same 540 PTO. I would imagine to purchase that gearbox would run 5-8 hundred. I like the way my fan has a direct shot from the mid mounted mower. It keeps the hose closer to the tire which makes the machine narrow fitting between objects. The less length / bends to the fan will increase the suction.
I guess if all else fails I could buy one but playing with a metal designed project just spins my wheels. Any idea what the Trac Vac sells for ? Thanks for the info.
One last question... how does it attach,,, to the three point arms ? My mid mount mower uses the arms to raise / lower the deck so that would not work for my application. Easy on and off ? I am planning three pins.

 

[Maxfli]

It mounts right on the 3 point lift arms. The back of the unit has a hitch ball to hook a leaf trailer to. I bought mine used for about $400.00. I think the right angle gear box is 2x1 rotation. Look closely at the 2 models in the parts catalog, mine is a model 856 (it runs a little slower than the 854 model). The 854 model has a double pulley system that is really what I would prefer. Mine still works good though. The hoses are all 8" so it works well. I think the new price is expensive $2500 to 3k but have never really priced it from a dealer.

 

[schmism]

2HP - Single Phase Motor Blower: 1350CFM at Penn State Industries

+

NorthStar PTO Generator — 7200 Watt, 14 HP Required | PTO Generators | Northern Tool + Equipment

and get a PTO generator out of the deal.


the 8" CVD hose you'll need is like $25 a foot.

 

[Agent Blue]

That is interesting, thanks for the info. It sounds as though your setup is for pulling a seperate trailer. My goal was to make the unit all in one for ease of maneuverability. You bought the deal of the day as their web site indicates three grand, now add shipping, tax.
I am waiting for the bearings to mount the shafts so I just have a frame temp welded up. I have learned not to complete the welding process as I go because of alterations needed I didn't plan for. ( More hind site than fore sight in most cases. ) I need some light sheet steel to make the transition from mower to tube also so its off to the steel yard. This past year I am getting to be a frequent customer.

 

[SPYDERLK]

Maxfli;
Just what I was looking for... a factory unit. Can you check the input / out put on the gearbox and tell what the ratio is ? That would give me some idea on how fast my fan has to turn.. we should have the same 540 PTO. I would imagine to purchase that gearbox would run 5-8 hundred. I like the way my fan has a direct shot from the mid mounted mower. It keeps the hose closer to the tire which makes the machine narrow fitting between objects. The less length / bends to the fan will increase the suction.
I guess if all else fails I could buy one but playing with a metal designed project just spins my wheels. Any idea what the Trac Vac sells for ? Thanks for the info.
One last question... how does it attach,,, to the three point arms ? My mid mount mower uses the arms to raise / lower the deck so that would not work for my application. Easy on and off ? I am planning three pins.

My Track Vac 880 has an 8HP engine running the vac/blower. The blower is driven at full engine speed/ 3600 rpm.
larry

 

[Maxfli]

I agree that 3600 rpm is the fan housing speed (last page of the Trac Vac Parts catalog show it I think). So on the PTO version they are using a extra pulley to get from a 540 PTO to 3600 rpms. Someday I want to build a self-dumping bin off the back of the unit and do away with the trailer.

 

[Agent Blue]

" Someday I want to build a self-dumping bin off the back of the unit and do away with the trailer.[/QUOTE] "

I think it is the best option. May need a counter weight on the front or a single center swival wheel if the container is too large. I would limit the container size because I am just interested in vacuuming the area with pine needles. I do not bag the rest of the lawn.

 

[Agent Blue]

2HP - Single Phase Motor Blower: 1350CFM at Penn State Industries

+

NorthStar PTO Generator 7200 Watt, 14 HP Required | PTO Generators | Northern Tool + Equipment

and get a PTO generator out of the deal.


the 8" CVD hose you'll need is like $25 a foot.

The 2 hp electric motor is never going to have enough torque to send the clippings five feet into the air plus the eight feet of hose will slow the process. Space is at a premium and with all this machinery it would take up too much. How much HP would it take to turrn the generator and what RPM ? Price is also a consideration. Here your going to spend fourteen hundred plus shipping.
I am looking to build this for less than three hundred including the hose which may run two fifty by itself. Steel, pulleys, shafts, housing, bearings equals seventy six dollars so far.
Also looking for a source for the 8" flex hose. From what I have seen the flat interior surface variety is very expensive.

 

[schmism]

The 2 hp electric motor is never going to have enough torque to send the clippings five feet into the air plus the eight feet of hose will slow the process.

the blower i listed, is designed for dust collection systems in commercial woodworking shops. with a 9" static suction It has more then enough power to suck the clippings and blow them to your collector.

2hp electric is roughly a 5hp gas. 3600rpm/540 = 6x step. so you'll need roughly 30hp pto belt/pully/jackshaft setup to equal the 2hp electric direct drive.

 

[SPYDERLK]

the blower i listed, is designed for dust collection systems in commercial woodworking shops. with a 9" static suction It has more then enough power to suck the clippings and blow them to your collector.

2hp electric is roughly a 5hp gas. 3600rpm/540 = 6x step. so you'll need roughly 30hp pto belt/pully/jackshaft setup to equal the 2hp electric direct drive.

:confused2:...... Thats not the way it works.
larry

 

[Agent Blue]

My fan is 1/4" material with the shaft it weighs nearly 18# I still can't imagine a 2 hp electric can start and maintain 3600 rpm while sucking in grass clippings and blowing the needed distance. My table saw has a 2hp motor with a 2 1/2" pulley. It doesn't show me much for power and it only has a 10" blade with sharp teeth. This ia an older style ME motor... not the small size units Sears claims have very high hp ratings.
If I wanted a four cycle engine I would go with a 13 hp HF for less than 300 dollars. I have a 6500 Honda generator ... really don't need another. The whole idea of self construction is quality materials with an economical build minus labor or a new approach to an old idea.
I have had plans that seemed logical but in the end didn't work as well as the tried and proven method. Failure just makes the brain work more efficient with more concentration on the root of the problem. My double belt theory may be the biggest mistake of the year. I won't know that unless I invest a few hours and dollars trying. If it was the answer factories would have them on the market with a cost saving price. That is why posting on this site is important as one can get many views looking at the same plan from different builders. I don't take offense to different opinions. I respect them all but as the planner it is up to me to choose the materials and products I feel are best suited for the application I am involved in.

 

[schmism]

:confused2:...... Thats not the way it works.
larry

what part of you do you disagree with?