Generator PTO generator problem

[JHTFarmer]

Thanks. I will try this right away, however, I did engage the PTO lever very slowly and the tractor engine did not lug, bog down, or shudder at all when it crushed the trailer.

 

[Slamfire]

As you surmise the generator's field should NOT be full on when starting. I'd have someone check that is not the case when you are starting yours. I must admit I don't know a lot about small generators, having never operated one with less than 156,250 kW rating. We'd have the alternator up to speed before energizing the field. ;-)

 

[BobRip]

."

One other thing about this genny is that it is billed as being voltage regulated, that voltage stays constant regardless of load on the device. On startup, there is no load, so does that mean the field is on full and as a result much more magnetic load to overcome which contibuted to the crushing force applied to the trailer?

With no electrical load, the torque requirements should be at a minimum. As you add more electrical load the torque requirements will increase. More power out of the generator requires more power (torque) in.

Bob Rip

 

[Soundguy]

Thanks. in". Ironically, the manual warns of some tractors with a PTO brake, but no warning of hydraulic driven PTOs. . i.e. "if the genny was mounted on a slab, I might be complaining of a broken PTO shaft, gearbox, or worse."

One other thing about this genny is that it is billed as being voltage regulated, that voltage stays constant regardless of load on the device. On startup, there is no load, so does that mean the field is on full and as a result much more magnetic load to overcome which contibuted to the crushing force applied to the trailer?

I really really doubt you have a fully hyd pto.. unless you have a power track.. etc. A HST tranny will still have a countershaft driven pto in most cases... this is irrelevant to the situation anyway so...

Pto brake will just be an abrupt stopping issue, and thus some rotational load witht he pto gears spinning.. etc.. Kind of reverse of the startup problem you experienced.

I have a feleing if it had been mounted.. there would have been no problems. ( no broke shafts.. etc ) After all.. it spun up fine you said.. just torqued the axles.. etc.

Only think I can think of is that the gearbox was a tad stuck.. perhaps from an arrant metal filing from the manufacturing process, and that this created a very momentary high torque load.. thent he piece of debri gave way and no longer exists .. etc.

Did you lube the gearbox? My genny came 'dry'.

Voltage regulation.. won't be much of a deal till you have a load... I.E. your startup won't be as bad with no load , as compaired to starting under full load. If it is an economy unit.. voltage stabilization is most likely capactive anyway.. works ok and is cheaper... Field won't be too powered up untill you have some current flow ( load ). i think your dealer is a scheister...

Soundguy

 

[Wayne_Freeman]

Just to echo what some others have already said, I have a 15KW PTO generator and it is mounted on a 3 pt carry all. The torque under load is substantial and the buggy yours is mounted to is no where close to sufficient. Winco should willingly remedy this quickly!

 

[3RRL]

I agree with Soundgy too. Especially this becoming a dangerous...possible injury related attachment. Let them take a whiff of that and they'll change their story. I'm not sure if you bought that locally or out of state? If out of state you can involve (easily by a phone call) the attorney general of your state and their state and the Federal interstate trade commision. They are there to protect you from out of state purchases that are fraudulent or not being as advertised. It is a growing problem and they are keenly focused on it nowadays because online purchase rely on honest advertising. The consumer is at a disadvantage because he can't feel or touch the product. They will contact them and put immediate presure on them or shut them down. A phone call from you to the company advising them that you are thinking of calling those agencies has worked for me.

One other thing, try to keep the tractor out of the equation. It obviously did it's job and turned over the generator shaft. You could give them an example that if you rotated the generator by hand and with enough force, (like an extended pry bar lever) the same thing could have happened to the trailer. Keep the focus on the wimpy trailer...where it should be.

 

[PineRidge]

After looking at your picture I have to say that the manufacturer really skimped on the steel that went into that trailer. If you like the generator pitch the wagon and make a good one out of angle iron and with a sufficient sized axle.

 

[Soundguy]

At the manufactures' expense though.. No reason he should have to eat their pathetic attempt at designing trailers..

Soundguy

 

[normde2001]

There is (was), nothing wrong with that trailer, that gen head should not be that hard to turn. You should be able to easily turn it with your bare hands just like any electric motor of that size. Did there happen to be any SHIPPING BOLTS OR BRACKETS holding the shaft that needed to be removed before operation? It should not be anywhere near as hard to turn as a rotary mower.

 

[JHTFarmer]

There is (was), nothing wrong with that trailer, that gen head should not be that hard to turn. You should be able to easily turn it with your bare hands just like any electric motor of that size. Did there happen to be any SHIPPING BOLTS OR BRACKETS holding the shaft that needed to be removed before operation? It should not be anywhere near as hard to turn as a rotary mower.

The Generator is not that hard to turn. I can slowly spin it with a gloved hand. However, it has a fairly hefty rotating mass. The generator itself weighs 275 pounds. So I would guess that the rotating parts probably weigh 100 pounds or more. On top of this is a gearbox that spins the rotor six times for every PTO shaft revolution.

There were no shipping bolts or brackets that I could find and there is no mention of any such things in the operation manual.

I have shown the trailer to my implement dealer (who had obtained this for me). He inspected it, the generator, and my tractor and is to follow through with the manufacturer. I suspect it may take some time....

 

[Ronbo]

Not to hijack your thread, but, are there any markings on the gearbox? I need a gearbox, but am unable to find them anywhere.


Ron

 

[Soundguy]

Norme...I disagree... in part.

The Gen head should turn as easilly as an electric motor.

However.. just ahead of the genny head is a step up gearbox. it will probably be a 6.66:1 ( 3600 rpm ) or 3.33:1 (1800 rpm ) depending on the number of poles.

My 12.5kw northstart pto gen can be turned by hand.. but you have to grab it, and there is significant resistance as it breaks over all of the gear inertia.. then once it starts to spin.. you have a decent amount of metal acting like a flywheel.. and speeding up isn't that big of deal. It is just that initial moment when you go from no motion.. to 0 motion, and have that (step-up) gear mass to spin up plus the gen head.. etc.

My guess is the inertial shock and torque fromt he downward spin is what the trailer couldn't take.

besides.. in the pics.. it looks like it is paper thin metal.. like something you would see on a barn roof.

The gear box looks identical to the gearbox on my gen head.

FWIW.. my stepfather has a 24kw northstar genny.. a 3600rpm unit.. it is very difficult to start it by hand.. unless you put a screwdriver thru the pto stub shaft hole and use both hands to start it spinning. It's step up gearbox is significantly larger.

Soundguy

 

[JHTFarmer]

Late entry...

I eventually had to drag my tractor and generator down to my
implement dealer for them to inspect the tractor to ensure the
PTO was indeed working properly. They had the same problem
and one of the wheels even fell of the trailer when they started it.

The company has denied the warrenty claim on this trailer.
They refused even to give a discount on the 3pt mount for the genny.
My dealer is going to purchase this 3pt mount from them for $400 (shipping included) and will then split the difference with me.

For some reason, I don't think he'll be selling anymore products from
this company. Anyone know of a good reputable generator manufacturer?

 

[Soundguy]

Around here you see winco ( spendy ) .. and northstar pto gens..

soundguy

 

[IslandTractor]

Late entry...

I eventually had to drag my tractor and generator down to my
implement dealer for them to inspect the tractor to ensure the
PTO was indeed working properly. They had the same problem
and one of the wheels even fell of the trailer when they started it.

The company has denied the warrenty claim on this trailer.
They refused even to give a discount on the 3pt mount for the genny.
My dealer is going to purchase this 3pt mount from them for $400 (shipping included) and will then split the difference with me.

For some reason, I don't think he'll be selling anymore products from
this company. Anyone know of a good reputable generator manufacturer?

That sort of product support and customer service belongs in the TBN Hall of Shame. To bad we don't have one. I hope people looking for PTO generators will see this thread and give their business to someone other than WinPower.

 

[schmism]

do the class 3 boomers not come with clutches?

my TC33 comes with one... on the left... thats how i engage my PTO's... push clutch in... move pto lever to "on" slowly let out clutch and let the item get up to speed.

i think your dealer should work with you to supply a carry-all or some other item that would be a sufficent replacement for that sorry excuse of a "trailer" they sent you.

let the dealer fight it out with the supplyer of the unit. (thats what hes there for, else you could have saved $$ and bought it right over the internet) least thats my opininon of why there are there....

 

[IslandTractor]

i think your dealer should work with you to supply a carry-all or some other item that would be a sufficent replacement for that sorry excuse of a "trailer" they sent you.....

Sounds like the dealer is not the problem and that he's going halvesies on a 3pt hitch adapter for the generator. I've often thought that the 3pt hitch set up for a generator was better anyway although it makes it impossible to move the thing around without the tractor.

 

[schmism]

so they supply you with a single 50 amp 220v plug on the back?

i guess they expect you to be running that into some sort of transfer switch/distibution pannel....

 

[IslandTractor]

I haven't looked at the specs for this particular generator but usually they give you at least a couple of 120v outlets and at least one 220 v outlet. The box to hook up to your household electrical system is an entirely separate purchase/installation (usually by a qualified electrician).