PTO Gen, chainsaw, or ...

[Rob-D]

Here’s my take on chain saws.

I have helped my friends with cheap ones and you may have a good one but what I’ve found is they don’t hold up especially well. My brother ran them when he was using wood to heat and they were always apart.

I bought a small Stihl about 10 years ago and it still runs perfectly. You get what you pay for. So let’s say I bought a cheap saw at Wally mart 10 years ago. My saw cost me just under 200 bucks so maybe the cheap saw cost 125. Well ten years later that works out to $7.50 a year and I’m still using it and it is still running the way it did when I bought it.

Just a little while ago I bought a new Husky and it cost me about $325.00. I could have gone to Wally mart and got a cheap saw for 150 or maybe even less but it still only amounts to 10 or 15 bucks a year at the most. If you’ve had a Husky and a cheap saw then you’ve had the opportunity to decide first hand. The loggers around here and there are a few, all use Husky and Stihl. They do it everyday all day long, what does that tell you?

 

[EddieWalker]

Husqavarna is the number one selling chain saw in the world. Echo and Stihl are the next big sellers and all three are top rated. There's no question about it, they are good saws.

Poulin makes several lines of equipment from the Walmart low dollar models to there top of the line, Poulon Pro models. I have two Poulon Pro's and have had a Husky chainsaw. Both chainsaws were 20 inch bars of similar size engines and displacement. One was allot cheaper than the other, they both have the same power, but the cheaper one has always started easier and has lasted about five times longer than the Husky did.

We can all buy a lemon from time to time and I'm sure that's just what happened to me. Unfortunatley, I didn't like the way I was treated by the Husky dealer and the entire experience left me with a bad taste. I wont' buy another Husky, but I won't bad mouth it either, I'm sure they are great saws and most people will be overjoyed at having one.

A friend had a similar sized Stihl when I had the Husky and we cut allot of oak together. Both saws performed the same in that they ran all day and cut wood all day long. Both had to have there chains replaced several times due to the constant use. The Stihl cost quite a bit more than the Husky did and I thought for the money, the Husky was a better deal.

When my Husky died, I looked at Echo, but didn't want to spend the money. Stihl was more than I wanted to spend too. I bought a Poulon called a "Wild Thing" from Home Depot and hated it. After the first tank of fuel went through it, I couldn't get it to start again. I took it back to Home Depot and got a full refund. They said they get allot of them back. My dad was visiting and he talked me into the Poulon Pro that we saw in Lowes.

It's been a great saw and I have no regrets. It's why I recomend it to others, even though most will recomend the Stihl or Husky. I don't know if those who recomend the more expensive saws have any experience with the Poulon Pro, but for allot less money, I think it's a much better deal.

If you were doing this for a living, I wouldn't recomend this saw for the simple reason that I don't know enough about all the different brands out there.

Good luck,
Eddie

 

[Glowplug]

I had a Poulan Pro from Lowe's. It performed well. Sometimes difficult to start, but when any gas chainsaw has set for a while that tends to happen. Someone stole it from the jobsite when I was building my home. That's when I bought my Stihl 290. I thought, "Good grief, $350 for a mid-level chainsaw?!?!" But let me tell you. . .that is one nice piece of equipment. I often dream about buying the Stihl 390 but $550 is a bit steep. And I'm not a logger. I feel that Husky, ECHO, Stihl, and even Poulan are all good reputable chainsaws. Everyone has their preference. I like orange chainsaws just like orange tractors. And no, I'm not talking about Husqvarna and Kioti!!

BTW, I was not using my chainsaw to build my home. I was using it to clear downed trees on the property. I left the homebuilding up to the contractors.

 

[Highbeam]

"I bought a Poulon called a "Wild Thing" from Home Depot and hated it. After the first tank of fuel went through it, I couldn't get it to start again. I took it back to Home Depot and got a full refund. They said they get allot of them back."

Hmmmm, one day chainsaw rental is 25-50$ maybe. Buy a saw, run it, and then return it a week later for free? Sounds like a scam. Not that Eddie scammed the system but the frequency of the returns might be partially due to the borrowers.

You haven't lived until you've had to use your backup saw to cut your regular saw out of a pinched tree and then used your ball hitch to hammer the saw bar straight enough to run a chain.

 

[Egon]

You haven't lived until you've had to use your backup saw to cut your regular saw out of a pinched tree

Then there is the case where the second saw is also firmly imbeded in the tree trunk and its axe time. And when things do move guess what falls on what?

I now have several bars for my saw as my falling skills are still in the very challenged stage!

 

[Rob-D]

You haven't lived until you've had to use your backup saw to cut your regular saw out of a pinched tree and then used your ball hitch to hammer the saw bar straight enough to run a chain.

I would liked to have been a fly on the side of your tractor for that event!

 

[shvl73]

"I bought a Poulon called a "Wild Thing" from Home Depot and hated it. After the first tank of fuel went through it, I couldn't get it to start again. I took it back to Home Depot and got a full refund. They said they get allot of them back."

Hmmmm, one day chainsaw rental is 25-50$ maybe. Buy a saw, run it, and then return it a week later for free? Sounds like a scam. Not that Eddie scammed the system but the frequency of the returns might be partially due to the borrowers.

I think some of the box stores get more than a few "borrowers".
Either Eddie got a lemon or I got a gem but, mine runs well, idles nice and starts fairly easily considering I leave the old gas in it in the off season.
I can remember my dads old pioneer saw and how often he'd be messing with it. This cheapie works real well for me.

 

[MarkV]

Hey Bob, now that you have gotten all this good advice and decided on a medium priced chain saw I have an idea for the money you saved. Spend an extra $100 and get some chain saw safety chaps and a helmet to go along with that saw. A search on the Safety Forum will pull up some scary stories about how quickly a chain saw can bite you. Have a look at www.Baileysonline.com to see some safety equipment and a bunch of other cool stuff.

MarkV

 

[EddieWalker]

You haven't lived until you've had to use your backup saw to cut your regular saw out of a pinched tree and then used your ball hitch to hammer the saw bar straight enough to run a chain.

My "other" chainsaw is a Poulon Pro also. But it's the one on the 12 foot pole that you use for trimming branches up high. In an emergancy, it will cut out your regular chain saw when the tree turns the wrong way and pins the bar.

For safter gear and equipment, you can also check Northern Tool. Lowes has them here too, but Northern was cheaper. I don't know about other souces.

Eddie

 

[charlz]

I spent a couple of my highschool years running a firewood business. I used a Stihl 041 with a 28" bar. Best saw I have ever used, gas, oil, clean the filter, change the chains when they are worn out and thats it. I only went through one bar in probably thousands of hours of use (cutting in a log pile, something you are not supposed to be doing anyway). One trick to keep your bar sprocket lasting longer is there is usually a little pinhold right by the center of the sprocket. There is a special grease gun tip that lets you pump a little grease in there to lube the sprocket.

I imagine the new plastic saws are toast if you drop a tree on them but I dropped a few trees on my old Stihl and after a little TIG welding it was good to go

A maul/sledge and splitting wedges will get your bar unstuck while felling trees... provided the tree is of large enough diameter that the wedge won't hit your bar when you drive it in. If you pay attention to the weight, lean and movement of the tree while making your face cuts during felling you can avoid a lot of stuck bars. That said I've ran out of wedges more than once and had to resort to the axe and I've felled thousands of trees.


As for the original topic, I would go for a gas saw, an electric chainsaw might be fine in the yard but dragging cords through brush etc. would really suck. On 20 acres you might be using the gas saw more than you think just because it is portable.

Not having my old saw anymore I recently had to purchase a saw to clean up some blow-down. I did some research and selected the Husky 152 which was onsale for $179 (if I recall correctly). Stihl or Husky low-end saws are about the same, lots of plastic parts and will not hold up to hard daily use. Stihl does not allow their saws to be sold in box stores or online... one of the things that makes their saws more expensive.

The only things I don't like about the Husky are: 1)it seems to use about 2 tanks of bar oil per tank of gas, my old Stihl was the other way around, you knew that at the end of the second tank it was time to fill up the bar oil, this way you never ran out and risked burning up your bar. 2)the bar oil leaks out while in storage, you have to place it somewhere you don't care gets covered with bar oil or put cardboard or something under it.

The saw has surprised me with its power and cutting ability, its perfect for a small acreage owner like me who does not process firewood etc. I do only have about 8 hours on it though. The saw does not come with log teeth which I thought I would really miss but it when through 14" stuff good enough to not need them. There are mounting points there and it looks like you could get a set of teeth, probably from the next size saw up and install them.

Charles

 

[billbill1]

I have an 041 AV Stihl that I got used in 1980, I have cut lots of cords of wood with it. The fuel line rotted of once and I had to buy a new muffler ($65) a year or two ago. It is one tough old saw. I had an 024 AV given to me about 15 years ago, it is so much lighter and me getting older, the 041 AV has been retired to getting the 024 unstuck in emergencies. Both have been excellent saws, the Husky's are good too, I've just never had the need to own one (yet). I heat entirely with wood so my saws get a good workout yearly. I've never been around Poulan saws so I can't comment about them but you can buy them reconditioned from Northern Tool pretty cheap. Folks I know have bought them and are satisfied.

 

[Rob-D]

The only things I don't like about the Husky are: 1)it seems to use about 2 tanks of bar oil per tank of gas, my old Stihl was the other way around, you knew that at the end of the second tank it was time to fill up the bar oil, this way you never ran out and risked burning up your bar. 2)the bar oil leaks out while in storage, you have to place it somewhere you don't care gets covered with bar oil or put cardboard or something under it.
Charles

Charles,
Husky states in their manuals that they design their saws for the gas to run out before the oil does. From what you say it sounds like you're using the wrong chain oil. The leaking may be an oil that is thin and this may be why it is running out too.

Just my opinion.

 

[excelagator]

I have an electric chainsaw and 2 gas chainsaw. The electric is great for being up in a tree for pruning, that is where it stops for greatest. The gas ones are a homelite and a stihl with 16" bars. Both were used and bought for $85. They have been great.

I have an 750 watt inverter hardwired in my Xterra. I do some offroading and it powers my laptop for live mapping. Anywho, inverters are great for powering small things, but I wouldn't run my e-chainsaw off of it.

Dan

 

[patrick_g]

I'd skip the inverter solution if you don't have a minimum of a couple 100 AH batteries in parallel and a HD alternator.

I have an old Husqvarna with a 32 inch bar and an engine the size of a small dirt bike but it has good compression, starts OK, and doesn't take long to cut a fair sized tree. I have a couple 16" Macs that start easy and cut well and don't make my arms want to fall off at the shoulders before lunch like the Husky. The little saws are way better for cutting off the limbs of the tree the Husky drops.

I too think running a tractor to power a little electric chainsaw is lousy economics. I paid $500 FOR A 6000 Watt continuous, 6500 surge, generator about 7 years ago and use it a lot. It still works fine, starts good, and powers my electric chinsaw on a telescopic pole, my MIG, and most of my power tools except the air compressor and plasma cutter at the same time.

Pat

 

[Soundguy]

I'm not a fan of babysetting a bunch of gas engines to try and keep running year to year.. however.. if i lived in a forest.. i think I'd have a gas chainsaw. i only have a few trees onmy 13 ac.. so i also use electric... I opted for a pto generator... I know my tractor will start.

It's not as easilly used as a portable generator.. but it works.. and florida see's lots of hurricane down time.. so ....

I think you should look a the 7kw head from northern.

good luck

Soundguy

I have about 20 acres with about 10 oaks with oak wilt I need to cutdown. I have an adequate electric chainsaw for the job which I love (it ALWAYS starts). But no electricity where its needed, so a generator is a possibility. I'd like some help deciding from the following choices as its a close call I think:

1. Good gas chain saw maybe Stihl $350
Could use over long period for firewood, clearing, but not sure it would get enough use
for the cost relative to other more versatile choices and given I already have a decent
electric chainsaw I can use where there's power

2. Standalone 4KW generator, maybe $400-$500
Could use for other things I might need remote power for in projects
like drill, lights, pump, and emergency power.
But, like option 1, its another engine to deal with and keep running. And I've heard these
generators only have a 1000 hr. lifetime IF you can keep it running.

3. PTO Generator, maybe $900 (Northern Tools 4KW) - $1100
Could use for even more things than option 2. such as light MIG remote, etc.
Already have 24HP Kubota, so may be more reliable and cost effective solution over
the long haul than option 2., no extra engine to maintaine, etc. But do I want to
put engine hours on a $10,000 tractor for remote 110vac ? Nice for emergency power
like option 2., but unless we get invaded and are under siege, power outtage doesn't
seem a big reason for generators here. We have maybe one outtage a year lasting
8 hours at most, candles work fine, no hurricanes. But I definitely could see use of
remote 110VAC on 20 acres doing stuff other than just cutting down 10 trees.

Any suggestions ? Remember I can only have ONE. Ah me, tradeoffs, tradeoffs...

Thanks,

Bob

 

[SPYDERLK]

Dont underestimate the convenience factor of having significant AC power at the flip of a switch on your tractor.

Here is text of my posting in a previous thread regarding experience with inverters on tractors.

I have direct experience with running Remingtons 14" Limb and Trim on both Xantrex and Vector 1000W inverters. This has turned out to be a long term compatible combination. The saw is rated at 8.0A, 120VAC, which means it requires around 960W at load. The Xantrex has been mounted on our BX1500 hood for years and the Vector is on the Kub 2550 also long term. The invertors pull about 100A to run the saw so DC wiring must be good. This is more than the tractors alternators put out but with the engine running even on the little one - - a 10A alternator - - you can do several continuous minutes of heavy cutting or 20-30min limbing before the inverter cuts out due to low supply voltage. I have had trouble with other inverters in these useage conditions. These are mechanically and electrically robust. Ive had no problem with the startup surge except when I had a poor DC connection. You can spot check those by running a 500W shoplite or other substantial load and measuring across each DC connection with a digital Voltmeter. This will allow you to compare the quality of each individual connection. You want very low voltage readings like 0.1V or less at this 60A load. If not, the higher loads inherent in startup will cause the inverter to kick out because it isnt getting high enuf supply voltage.
I love these things - lets my wife use a chainsaw. She cant pull enuf to start a gas.
The 1kW Xantrex cost me $70 at Costco. Its been on the hood of the BX 3yrs sometimes in the rain. No problems. Cheap. When they sold the line out the price dropped to $30 and I bought 2 more. Xantex makes a 1.5KW that I want to put on the big Mahindra. Regarding running the tractor at high RPM to get good charging system output - In my experience a 1500rpm idle is sufficient to get very near max alternator output. Battery/charging system/tractor have never been an issue. You dont even have to run the tractor for incidental cuts or use of drills or recip saws. A circular saw needs all you can get out of the 1kW tho. The 1.5KW would be right.
Larry

 

[Charlesaf3]

"You haven't lived until you've had to use your backup saw to cut your regular saw out of a pinched tree and then used your ball hitch to hammer the saw bar straight enough to run a chain.

Been there, done that. Used a rock instead of the ball hitch, but found the process equally annoying I'm sure. It was educational - won't make that particular mistake again.

I'm another vote for buy a good gas chain saw. Used Husqy and Stihl, think they are both good saws. Prefer the Husqy for its lower price and vibration. Never used the Poulan Pro though.

And keep the chain sharp - makes a huge difference. Read the thread on HF chain sharpeners - I'd recommend them, beats the **** out of filing.

 

[daTeacha]

I sharpen mine with the Dremel and correct stone.

Not wanting to find my old saw left out of the bragging about tough saws, my McCulloch 10-10A still runs fine but very loud as always. Has been run over by the tractor ( both wheels ), pinched, squashed by trees, and suffered other assorted insults over the years. This is an old McCulloch, not one of the new ones. My Stihl is plastic, but seems equally tough. I haven't run over it yet, though. Hope I don't

 

[Rob-D]

Spyder,

When your inverter kicks off due to low battery this is telling you that the battery is well below 50% discharge. (I think xantex shuts down at 10.5 volts, dangerously low). Batteries are rated cycles, that is, the life of the battery is a product of how many times it has been discharged/charged. Deep cycle batteries like the ones used in solar systems and golf carts are designed to recycle. The deeper the discharge the lower number of cycles the battery will last even for those types of batteries. The battery in your car or tractor is not a deep cycle battery and it is not designed to deep cycle.

Bottom line is to be very careful not to approach the inverter shut off voltage as you are shortening the life of your battery tremendously.

As for inverters. The cheap inverters that you buy in Wally Mart or other outlets are called ‘modified sine’ inverters. This is basically a square wave and square waves do not run certain things very efficiently. I could go into the harmonics of the wave and losses incurred but there is a lot of info on this floating around the net.

The motor in an electric chain saw is a brushed motor which runs ok on a mod sine inverter but it does increase the heat the motor runs at somewhat. (AC motors like in your washing machine and fridge run hotter then the brushed AC/DC motors. They also run at about 20% less efficiency)

Bottom line. Be careful what you run on a mod sine inverter. Don’t run things like battery chargers or welders. On welders the transformers are not equipped to run a mod sine. What happens is the transformer core saturates and this leads to overheating.

 

[RalphVa]

I've used an electric for light duty stuff. Don't think I'd want to use one for doing a whole tree, keeping track of the cord, etc. (ain't talking about wood cord either).

DON'T buy a cheap generator. Been there done that. The better ones will set you back more than $400-500, closer to $1,000-2,000 for a good one.

I've a 35 year old 009L Stihl that was finally giving me some starting problems. May need to finally change out the air cleaner. Think I changed the spark plug once. ALWAYS emptied the fuel out and ran it dry. Didn't do that just ONCE and regretted it the next attempt to start it. It is so old though, it doesn't have a primer or anything like that, just carb and choke and hold-throttle-open device. Just acquired another chain saw last Saturday at an estate sale for $60 that probably has been used once. It was full of fuel and fired right up. I drained it and ran it dry.

If you buy a gas chain saw, buy a good small one. They're a whole lot easier to use than a big one for most chores. Rent a big one when you need it. I can barely pull the cord to start those big ones and wouldn't want to be lifting one all day to do small limbs.