Generator Pto backup generator - are they practical

[CCWKen]

Well, I can tell ya that portable AND pto generators "blow a vacuum" if you have to go out and connect them in a storm. That's usually when the electric goes out here. It's pretty rare to have the power drop on a nice sunny day unless someone hit a pole down the road. I can't imagine going out in a 3"/hour rain, hail, lighting and 50mph wind at 3:00am like this morning. So keep that in your decision chart too. It would be nice to be able to see into the future and know if the electric will be back on when you wake up but even so, the storm may still be going on.

I have an all-electric home and AC is a must down here. The 7kW UPS takes care of the wall outlets and lights for quite a while but an extended outage will need major power. I'm planning on adding a 20-25Kw Generac LP system soon.

 

[fidowanttobe]

Thanks, James...she's just a mutt, but she's a good dog.

Not JUST a mutt!! I find more often than not, mutts are the BEST dogs!

 

[Sawyer Rob]

I never run out and start a genset when the power goes out... I guess we still have enough "cave man" left in us, that we can live without power for a few hours... lol lol

After a few hours, I start my Honda 2000 and plug in a couple things, like the fridge and/or sump pump...

The power has to be off a loooooooooong time, before we need more power than that...

As for my wife not being able to hook up a pto gen set... Well, back when I was dating, I wasn't interested in dating/marrying someone who "I" had to baby sit, nor do I need a woman to baby sit me! My wife loves to learn new things and also loves many of the same things that I do, most times we work together doing them.......so....well, you know the rest.....it's just not a problem for us. lol

SR

 

[RalphVa]

Big problem with portable generators and PTO generators is having or keeping track of fuel to supply them. We went with a standby Isuzu diesel generator from the outfit in Maine. It has a 60 gallon tank and uses 0.2 gph. So, the tank is good for about 2 weeks running. I actually refuel my tractor from its tank and occasionally go get some more diesel and refuel the generator tank.

Before this, we had a 4400 watt portable generator connected to a generator panel. It would run about 8 hours before needing to be refueled. Hated having so much gasoline sitting around. Dangerous.

I also consider propane dangerous and also not very economical. You only have 4.24 #/gallon. Not near as many BTU in a gallon as in diesel. A tiny leak of propane can pool can be ignited way away from the source of the leak.

A real no brainer would be a natural gas powered standby generator. We don't have a gas line into our neighborhood.

Ralph

 

[Newbie7100HST]

Thanks for all the input - I think I will keep an eye out or a deal on a PTO Genset and then maybe down size my standalone to an 1800-2200w portable unit (Honda all the way).

To be honest the unit I would love to have the most is a Combined Heat and Power Boiler (propane). Provides heat, domestic hot water and about 1kw of electricity when firing via a Stirling engine (yes I would need a bank of batteries for storage).
These units are gaining some traction in Europe but are **** near impossible to get any info on here.
I know of one installed in a demonstration house in Toronto and another one in Ottawa.

 

[farmer2009]

When we go whole house it'll be diesel. Have a 80kw diesel for the farm. Auto switched and exercises every week with a full switch. Diesel is easy to keep large quantities of and easy to get in an emergency. Current storage is 600 gallons. Changed at least once a year.

Current home generator is a 7500 watt gas. Does good and I use it elsewhere on the farm. We do have propane heat.

 

[gogojuice]

Hey Newbie.

I'm following the thread and am in the same spot as you. This is what I have found (my opinion).
It's also a bit different looking for PTO, gensets or a standalone up here.
1. the availability of brands. Can't seem to find a lot of them up here.
2. Used market. Not nearly as good as the USA.

I keep looking at Kijji and amazon, eBay etc... but haven't come up with something that suits my needs. The only place I found a dealer for around here was for
BaumaLight - PTO Generators

They seem to have a good name if you look around...

I have the electrician over today. We talked about putting in a standby generac type.. but the installation is a lot more than a plug and play type. (of course this depends on your layout and what fuel source you have)

Good luck.. I'll follow along and see what comes out of here

 

[newbury]

I prefer natural gas powered stand alone. This is the most expensive option, but certainly the most convenient. The problem with a PTO generator for me is the tractor is rarely stored at my house.

Natural gas is nice if you've got it. In my Mississippi area they don't seem to sell CNG and I imagine getting a pipeline run 16 miles to my house would be expensive.

Big problem with portable generators and PTO generators is having or keeping track of fuel to supply them. We went with a standby Isuzu diesel generator from the outfit in Maine. It has a 60 gallon tank and uses 0.2 gph. So, the tank is good for about 2 weeks running. I actually refuel my tractor from its tank and occasionally go get some more diesel and refuel the generator tank.

Before this, we had a 4400 watt portable generator connected to a generator panel. It would run about 8 hours before needing to be refueled. Hated having so much gasoline sitting around. Dangerous.

I also consider propane dangerous and also not very economical. You only have 4.24 #/gallon. Not near as many BTU in a gallon as in diesel. A tiny leak of propane can pool can be ignited way away from the source of the leak.

A real no brainer would be a natural gas powered standby generator. We don't have a gas line into our neighborhood.

Ralph

Why would "keeping track of fuel to supply them" for a PTO generator be a big problem? I don't have much problem keeping track of fuel to supply my tractor.

And if propane is that dangerous a lot of people in my area better get rid of their 500 gallon LPG tanks.

Have you ever tried barbecuing with diesel?

Thanks for all the input - I think I will keep an eye out or a deal on a PTO Genset and then maybe down size my standalone to an 1800-2200w portable unit (Honda all the way).

To be honest the unit I would love to have the most is a Combined Heat and Power Boiler (propane). Provides heat, domestic hot water and about 1kw of electricity when firing via a Stirling engine (yes I would need a bank of batteries for storage).
These units are gaining some traction in Europe but are **** near impossible to get any info on here.
I know of one installed in a demonstration house in Toronto and another one in Ottawa.

Or buy a Prius and use it's battery bank and engine as a 5KW generator. Or a TESLA and then you can have a generator that goes FAST.
Tell your wife you had to spend $70K for good generator But let her pick the color

 

[brasco426]

Sooooooo.......... I hope this isn't to far off topic, but

I put one of these in
Reliance Controls 10-Circuit 30 Amp Manual Transfer Switch Kit 310CRK at The Home Depot - Mobile

Powered by this
75 Watt Elite Series™ Portable Generator

Extra cost for the wire to run between the outside box connection, to inside generator panel for an additional cost of $30. It powers my well pump, heat, hot water, ref., wifi, t.v.'s, exterior lights, and most interior lights, etc. I went back and forth myself, and for me I decided to just put this in. Nice thing is it's safer and easier for my wife to operate and the tractor is still available. Everyone's needs and expectations are different though.

 

[farmer2009]

Natural gas is nice if you've got it. In my Mississippi area they don't seem to sell CNG and I imagine getting a pipeline run 16 miles to my house would be expensive.

I got a quote a couple years back. To run a line 3 miles was over $150,000. I asked if I bought a backhoe and did the digging what it would cost. The guy just laughed.

 

[newbury]

Sooooooo.......... I hope this isn't to far off topic, but

I put one of these in
Reliance Controls 10-Circuit 30 Amp Manual Transfer Switch Kit 310CRK at The Home Depot - Mobile

Powered by this
75 Watt Elite Series™ Portable Generator

Extra cost for the wire to run between the outside box connection, to inside generator panel for an additional cost of $30. It powers my well pump, heat, hot water, ref., wifi, t.v.'s, exterior lights, and most interior lights, etc. I went back and forth myself, and for me I decided to just put this in. Nice thing is it's safer and easier for my wife to operate and the tractor is still available. Everyone's needs and expectations are different though.

Wow, a 75 watt generator!

 

[brasco426]

Wow, a 75 watt generator!

I know right, thing punches above its weight lol.

 

[4570Man]

After I changed to LED I could nearly light my kitchen on a 75 watt generator.

 

[vsteel]

We went with a standby Isuzu diesel generator from the outfit in Maine. It has a 60 gallon tank and uses 0.2 gph. So, the tank is good for about 2 weeks running.

A real no brainer would be a natural gas powered standby generator. We don't have a gas line into our neighborhood.

Ralph

Your case where you want power 24x7 and I am guessing using about 1K-2K watts isn't a great use case for a PTO generator. (I am guessing your generator size based on your fuel consumption rate)


One thing to keep in mind is to check the flow and pressure of your natural gas. Generators can be thirsty and not all houses have the required pressure and volume to feed a generator. Your gas company will be able to tell you what you need to know.

 

[OregonCraig]

I have both portable & a 12 kW PTO generator. Short runs I use the portable, Long runs the PTO. 12 kW on a Deere X748 24HP Yanmar. This is the same motor that many refrigerated trucks use which runs for days on end. I would not use one of my larger tractors since the fuel consumption would be too high.

Andy...what brand/model PTO generator is that? And how do you know that you have the correct RPM to output 60Hz? I assume the genset has a gauge of some sort, but would like to hear a little more about the process of hooking up the genset.

I have essentially the same garden tractor and might be interested in copying your set up one day. Thanks.

 

[Fallon]

http://shop.p3international.com/p/kill-a-watt is a nice easy way to measure frequency & other things. My 20+ year old WinCo PTO generator has a gauge on the front with a green zone that you try to adjust your throttle into. Pretty sure it's a voltage meter, not a frequency meter though. Frequency is 100% determined by the RPM (although there is usually a gearbox to go from 540 rpm to the 1,800 or 3600 RPM required for a 2 or 4 pole generator). So in thoery you could just use the tachometer & math or a cheap RPM sensor. Using a Kill-A-Watt or similar frequency meter is going to be easier & cheaper though. Voltage is usually controled by a voltage regulator internal to the generator & often not adjustable. Voltage should be fine as long as you get the frequency/RPMs right.

You can find dedicated frequency meters on E-bay for under $30, but they aren't weatherproof.

The standard process is:

Cut off line power to the house (disconect from grid)
Hook up wires from generator to house outlet
Fire up tractor/generator
Fiddle with the throttle until your meter reads 60hz (make sure voltage is close as well)
Throw disconnect on the house from off to generator (or flip breakers on the generator) to connect the generator to the house
Fiddle with throttle if needed
Turn on heavier loads in the house & keep an eye on frequency meter while doing so (fiddle with throttle if need be)

 

[OregonCraig]

http://shop.p3international.com/p/kill-a-watt is a nice easy way to measure frequency & other things. My 20+ year old WinCo PTO generator has a gauge on the front with a green zone that you try to adjust your throttle into. Pretty sure it's a voltage meter, not a frequency meter though. Frequency is 100% determined by the RPM (although there is usually a gearbox to go from 540 rpm to the 1,800 or 3600 RPM required for a 2 or 4 pole generator). So in thoery you could just use the tachometer & math or a cheap RPM sensor. Using a Kill-A-Watt or similar frequency meter is going to be easier & cheaper though. Voltage is usually controled by a voltage regulator internal to the generator & often not adjustable. Voltage should be fine as long as you get the frequency/RPMs right.

You can find dedicated frequency meters on E-bay for under $30, but they aren't weatherproof.

The standard process is:

Cut off line power to the house (disconect from grid)
Hook up wires from generator to house outlet
Fire up tractor/generator
Fiddle with the throttle until your meter reads 60hz (make sure voltage is close as well)
Throw disconnect on the house from off to generator (or flip breakers on the generator) to connect the generator to the house
Fiddle with throttle if needed
Turn on heavier loads in the house & keep an eye on frequency meter while doing so (fiddle with throttle if need be)

Fallon...thanks for that explanation. Doesn't seem like much more trouble than a stand alone generator hookup. Main difference being the throttle adjustment, but plugging the Kill-A-Watt meter into the generator provides a way to dial in the correct frequency.

 

[oosik]

Been here 34 years and I have a stand alone 3KW generator. We have an average of two outages per year. The longest in my years here was 26 hours. Not even long enough to go out and start the little generator. Just don't open the freezer every five minutes and all will remain frozen for at least 48 hours.

I have to admit - our electric utility does EXCELLENT service during any outage.

 

[daybreak1998]

Howdy,
It works for some, and others do not understand about using a pto generator.
I might be different. I have multiple tractors. I do not care about hours on the meter. I do not power right away. If the power goes out, and its like 1 hour later, and I still have no power. I will simply hook up the pto generator and run anything I need.

PTO generators = not all are created the same. A more expensive option is a 4 pole head. That means the whole assembly spins at a nice 1800rpm to make that 60Hz. A unit with 2 poles needs to spin at 3600rpm. The whole assembly makes more noise spinning at 3600rpm.
Below is my Tiger Power PTO generator pulling approx. 19kw
It has a digital gauge showing the volts, and the lit dots showing the Hz, and a ammeter showing the power being drawn.
Tiger Power PTO 30KW working 19kw

 

[TomSeller]

Not JUST a mutt!! I find more often than not, mutts are the BEST dogs!

And healthiest. No inbreeding.