Projected Pipeline

[txdon]

^^^^......and, figure in the cost of a good attorney into the cost of the property or easement.

Most Attorneys will add stipulations to the ROW and get you more money. However they will take the extra money for their fee and if you go by the checklist in my previous post you can save the fee. Many do hire lawyers and many ROWs are amended willingly by the pipeline. The First ROW agreement you get from them has only the basic terms. You must request all your terms and a higher payment for the ROW than offered.

The first land man to approach me, well lets just say he turned me in as too hard to deal with, so I was transferred to a "special group". The ones that don't fold quickly. I got more money and better terms for Mom. In the middle of the negations they sent a letter to mom and told her they would just pay the value of the land which was less than the original offer. That lead to a heated discussion. As you can tell it is a hassle.

 

[ruffdog]

Pipe lines run pretty much everywhere. They are pretty darn safe (not perfect) and the company has to take care of them. We all drive things that flows in them. I worked on them for years so of course I'm in favor of them.

Um.....35 leaks in the first year?

Oil spill casts doubt safety of proposed Keystone XL

 

[oosik]

Too many unknowns right now. You want peace & quiet - you will always be worrying about exactly what they will do. I'd look elsewhere.

BTW - here in the USA - eminent domain refers to the unique powers of the State or Federal Gov ONLY. It is not a power given to private people or private companies.

 

[hosspuller]

Too many unknowns right now. You want peace & quiet - you will always be worrying about exactly what they will do. I'd look elsewhere.

BTW - here in the USA - eminent domain refers to the unique powers of the State or Federal Gov ONLY. It is not a power given to private people or private companies.

Technically yes … But look up SCOTUS and Kelo. And look at which justices sided with the city. Remember that when you vote in 2020.

 

[Jlblake]

I just finished negotiating a pipeline agreement for my mom's property. 110 miles from Houston. The pipeline people will make several offers do not take the first one. The working area will be double the width of the right way. You will loose all trees and roads must cross the pipeline perpendicular. No ponds or buildings can be built on the right of way. Airplanes will monitor the pipeline - one caught me pulling up an old fence post and within an hour a pipeline representative was questioning me to make sure I was not putting a fence post in the ground near the pipeline. If you buy the land make sure you get paid the price of the devaluation of your land - of course they can just take it if you are unreasonable and pay you what they want.

This property is about 100 miles from Houston. At this point, looks like the seller doesn't think the price should be impacted by the uncertainty. The thread got a little sideways by focusing more on the easement. At this point I'm not worried about the easement, I'm worried about the worst case scenario...that I spend $500k and don't have peace and quiet.

If all that happens is that a pipeline gets installed, no problem. If anything obstructs my ability to get away and enjoy peaceful country life then it isn't worth the money. I just don't know what will happen. I thought a contingency contract would make sense...either I pay them full cost and they return part if property is not suitable or I pay them less and settle up in 4 years after the line is complete. These guys want their price and they don't care what the buyer has to deal with. I don't know if any of this will ultimately matter or not. Just a bad situation but like many properties, this is a one of a kind property. Buying a different property, building the home and the lake...just to find out that the same thing could happen there...tough choice I have to make by Tuesday.

 

[Jlblake]

They can pay what they want with their justification. The state of Texas has given them the right of eminent domain. As I said correctly they will pay you what they want. They can take a strip out - several thousand feet long and 30' wide - figure how many acres and give you the going rate per acre (if you were selling) for the ROW with no ending date. You have to try to get more from them because the ROW has now decreased the total value of all your attached acres. Just the plan of a pipeline the OP wants to devalue the entire land by 15%, and probably correctly so. If he can do that and then negotiate the 15% back on the ROW, plus the actual sales value of acres the ROW takes up, he would be making money.

You need to add an ending date before signing usually when the pipeline is abandoned. Also define abandoned. And add that they are responsible for removal of the line and all accidental spills. You also need to add that the ROW is for one line only or they will sell their ROW and another pipeline can be added without any compensation given to you.

We did have one landowner who wanted more than what the pipeline wanted to offer and went to court with a jury and won. But it was a short lived victory because the judge turned it around. He did end up getting a bit more than the going rate but the lawyer's fee had to be paid out of that.

this was my thought exactly...reduce price by 15% to protect myself. Between that and the easement, I can avoid losing $100k or more.

 

[Jlblake]

Most Attorneys will add stipulations to the ROW and get you more money. However they will take the extra money for their fee and if you go by the checklist in my previous post you can save the fee. Many do hire lawyers and many ROWs are amended willingly by the pipeline. The First ROW agreement you get from them has only the basic terms. You must request all your terms and a higher payment for the ROW than offered.

The first land man to approach me, well lets just say he turned me in as too hard to deal with, so I was transferred to a "special group". The ones that don't fold quickly. I got more money and better terms for Mom. In the middle of the negations they sent a letter to mom and told her they would just pay the value of the land which was less than the original offer. That lead to a heated discussion. As you can tell it is a hassle.

it is going to be a hassle. The question is, should the cost of the property before news of the pipeline be the same as the price after news of it? That's what I'm arguing with the seller. Ultimately it's their choice but there is a lot of risk and uncertainty if I proceed. I agreed to a set price based on the expectation that it was turn key. Now it's anything but turn key. I'm going ahead and getting the inspections done for the home, septic, wells and lake Friday. If that comes back with any problems, it should be easier for me. I can handle the landman later and I think the checklist is a good start. I'm ready for them. Just don't know if they'll stick a noisemaking station near my property if I buy it.

 

[Jlblake]

So what is your real purpose in owning the land?
I have a feeling that there is more to the story.
You mention your intent and add several comments about future selling.
It doesn't sound like a home site motive, so walk away.

Rest and relaxation. That's it. The selling comment is simply due to the fact that nobody gets out alive and all property is eventually sold. My kids may appreciate me putting some effort into protecting my legacy. Walking away sounds easy. Have you shopped for property in southeast Texas lately? This is a nice property. If I knew what would happen with the pipeline, the decision would be simple. I just don't know and that's uncomfortable. Nothing more to the story.

 

[txdon]

Just a thought: How are the roads to this property? If they are in poor shape it might disqualify for a pumping station. The pumping station here is on state highway 77.

 

[Jlblake]

Just a thought: How are the roads to this property? If they are in poor shape it might disqualify for a pumping station. The pumping station here is on state highway 77.

good point. Roads are good though. This is in Leon County, probably east of you. Are you being impacted by the Permian Global Access Pipeline?

 

[txdon]

You are East. Not the PGA pipeline.

 

[2LaneCruzer]

For the record; I granted an easement for the construction of a sewer line across my property. They laid one line originally, and another replacement 30 years later. The work was all done by contractors, who could give a **** about my property. The only thing they did they said they would was to put in the sewer line. They did not replace topsoil, trees, correct the subsidence nor respect the boundaries of the easement. Whatever it is you want, you best get it up front, with some way to enforce it. Oh, yeah. I told them they must bring in porta potties; I didn't want my yard and creek contaminated with any erotic or exotic bacteria from places unknown.

 

[EddieWalker]

My neighbor has a pipeline on his property and the edge of the ROW is our property line. He uses it mostly as a road to get from one end of his place to another. The pipeline people saw that he was using this as a road and told him that he couldn't drive on it anymore. He took them to court and won. That was awhile ago. Last year they informed him that he needed to tap the line to run another line to the local town that already has a gas line from a different pipe. The mayor told him that the city is broke and cannot afford to run anything there. This is not for the city, but the pipeline people used the city to increase the size of the ROW to 100 x100 feet of surface area to build the gas tap. They offered him $10,000 and he took them to court and said that the final cost was $30,000 I have no idea if this is accurate, or what the lawyer cost him. He said that he would keep them tied up in court for years, but a month after talking to him, they started construction.

What he did learn about the pipeline is that it was needed to build a plant that converts plastic bags and bottles into oil that can be used to make gasoline. This is one of those Green Energy programs created under the Obama Administration to fight man made global warming. He wasn't able to find out how much money they are spending on this, but there is a time limit on how long the Federal money is available to build this plant. Having the natural gas from the pipeline was crucial to being able to do this. The plant is being built about 5 miles away, next to another natural gas pipeline that didn't have the high quality of natural gas that this one does. They took that land by the same Eminent Domain process, but I don't know any of the details. Just that it's several acres in size. They finished the gas tap and ran the new pipe line along the County Road last year and construction on the plant is still going on.

Just speculating based on what I've been told by my neighbor and the guys who work for the city where they get there natural gas, they all think this is just a big government funded money spending disaster that will close down as soon as they run out of Federal money to support it. What happens to all of it when that happens? Or what happens if it's successful and they decide to build more plants?

And to my point, if you have a pipe line on your property, you will never know what could happen in the future. There is no limit to what the Government will spend to waste money, or any restrictions on what they can take from you if they have a reason to do so. Whatever you think you have in a contract with them is only as good as the day when they decided they want something different. While this is true for every piece of land, having the pipeline on your land just makes it more likely.

For me, there is a bonus to this. Where they put the tap for the pipeline means that if they widen the road in front of my place, they would have to relocate that tap in order to take land away from me. There is a big study being done by the State of Texas right now with $5 million dollars set aside to study how to turn 2 lanes into 4 lanes for emergency evacuation during a natural disaster. There is also a big push to build a toll road in my area. The tap on the pipeline will make it very difficult for them to take the land on my side of the road.

 

[YanmarFever]

We bought property back in 81 that had a NG pipeline across it.

We had planes flying over inspecting what we were doing 2x a week. If we built a fire they were there, if we excavated they were there, you get the idea...
It was like living under a surveillance satellite. The neighbor was an excavator and he liked to dig near it so they were at his place couple times a month.
I was always worried that an earthquake would cause it to leak.
Im glad we moved after 12 yrs.

 

[aczlan]

For the record; I granted an easement for the construction of a sewer line across my property. They laid one line originally, and another replacement 30 years later. The work was all done by contractors, who could give a **** about my property. The only thing they did they said they would was to put in the sewer line. They did not replace topsoil, trees, correct the subsidence nor respect the boundaries of the easement. Whatever it is you want, you best get it up front, with some way to enforce it. Oh, yeah. I told them they must bring in porta potties; I didn't want my yard and creek contaminated with any erotic or exotic bacteria from places unknown.

Are those spelled out in the easement contract/deed? Seems like if the contractors aren't, the sewer authority should be holding them to those terms of they are notified of the problem.

Aaron Z

 

[r porter]

believe it or not;

talking to an attorney now might be real profitable down the road. and for sure get an attorney if you buy. i have seen many right of way problems and some eminent domain takes that would make you shake you head. never say no-just say you want more$$$ and you need to know when you have got top dollar offered to you before they will invoke eminent domain.

you and we on here cannot possibly think of all the pertinent questions that a qualified attorney who is knowledgeable in right of way can think of. it is quite likely others have contacted attorneys about the line. a search might be worthwhile to learn your rights and what to expect in the way of $$ for the ROW and $$for damages.

i knew a judge that thought he could stop a cable and he was offered much more than other property owners for his right of way. he held out and they condemned his property and gave him 3 bucks a foot for a few hundred feet when he had turned down many thousands of dollars. and no he was not a happy fellow.

edit-i have had a gas line on my property for 70 years with not a hitch.

 

[forgeblast]

Talk to an Oil and Gas pipeline attorney. We are in the center of PA's gas boom. Lot of pipeline work going on atm, along with more infrastructure. Pipeline company wanted to come in through our crep land. I spent 10 years building it up and didnt want to see that go down the drain. So I gave them a price they would not pay, got the next guy in line to call me, same thing, next guy, until they put it on my neighbors property.
Attorney Doug Clark, Pennsylvania Gas Lease Attorney | Attorney Doug Clark | The Landowner Lawyer has a podcast etc....

 

[2LaneCruzer]

Are those spelled out in the easement contract/deed? Seems like if the contractors aren't, the sewer authority should be holding them to those terms of they are notified of the problem.

Aaron Z

Long story short; the easement is very short and sweet; I was in law school at the time and thought the city would treat me right. I soon learned later that the city was not interested in the individual homeowner, but they wanted the new additions built and could care less. I called the city, and they said it was the responsibility of the contractor who by that time was LG.

 

[TheGoose]

Before you jump off the bandwagon too soon look around at other size properties and see if they already have other ROW for pipelines and power lines on them. Chances are that no matter where you look you will run into the same issue.

I doubt they would put any kind of compressor station near you. Pipelines can go a long way before the product needs a boost, hundreds of miles I bet.

Good luck and keep this thread updated.

 

[YanmarFever]

How about talking to your neighbors and see what kind of a deal they negotiated with the pipeline co.