Parents needing help, etc.

[paulsharvey]

So, what I saw with wife's grandma, was good days and bad for maybe the last 3 years, and some od those bad days are Bad. I dont mean they don't remember, what I mean is they will say and do the most hateful things you couldn't imagine when their mind was all there. That does have a lasting effect.

 

[paulsharvey]

Also, throw this out there, because as much as people don't want to here it, the money situation. Don't put yourself too far out there money wise (am I saying don't buy the tractor? maybe), without knowing why. If you don't have a firm idea on where the property goes after they pass, or it gets split between family, you dropping $40k for what is likely going to be 2-3 years of helping, may be a bad move. Let's say FIL passes in the next 18 months, and MIL is moved to assisted, where does that leave you.

Also, I know it's an 80 acre piece, but it's OK to leave 78 acres of it alone. Make sure the drive is passable (for ambulane/fire truck), and let most of it go to weeds/brush.

 

[D&D]

I just don't have the time to do the maintenance required to limp them by, along with my job, keeping up my place, and being there for my wife and kids.

Time management is a real bear for everyone. Family is great to be at #1. Reprioritizing the task lists for both houses may be a good idea. Maybe hiring out some of the chores would be best for all?

 

[jaxs]

LOOK AROUND when you are there and take care of things you see that need done. Had a similar conversation with my 55 yo son about his 35 yo not taking inactivity and doing things without being told.

 

[Joel/ak]

My dad is the same way except doesn't get angry.

Brain and heart says he can do it, but the body shows reality. Guess that happens when you get run over by a peterbuilt.

I purposely dull the chain on his saw. He doesn't understand that you can't cut a tree up while using a cane. He was doing cement work about a month ago, and he fell over. Laid there for about an hour before a neighbor seen him and helped him get up and back in the house.

My wife spends alot of time helping him out since she doesn't work.

Tried to get him to move into our basement but he wants his independence. Can't blame him but I know the day is coming where things won't go good and somebody will just find him.

 

[paulsharvey]

Oh, you didn't mention it, but: do both MIL/FIL still drive? Does Ark require additional driving tests or anything of the sort after a certain age? Do they have restrictions, like no driving after dark? If they don't, I would expect that to be a huge blow to FIL when the family needs to have an intervention and take his keys.

Here is a snapshot of FLa elder driving rules. Not sure that a vision test every 6 years after 80 does much good. Someone can be fine at 80, and gone way down by 82. Some start their decline Way earlier.

 

[EddieWalker]

My dad passed away last October from Dementia at 87. Mom is 82 and doing good. In 2010, they sold their house in CA and moved here. I built them a house behind my house, and for ten years, they where great. Then dad began forgetting things, lying about it, and blaming everyone else for what he did. Nothing huge, but he progressively got worse every year.

He got the to the point where he couldn't start the chain saw. I bought battery powered one that he could use to cut up logs for firewood. It was less then half the weight, and he was able to keep busy, but not go off into the woods with it. That helped a lot!!

As he got worse, I started sabotaging things so he couldn't use them. I "broke" the tractor and I disconnected a wire on his SUV so he couldn't drive. I mow their yard every week, I take out the garbage for them, and I fix what needs fixing. Mom is good at telling me what needs to be done. Dad would lie about it so he didn't look bad. He was very vain, and would never admit to not being able to do something. Instead, I just worked with mom, and got it done. At first, he would try to help, or just stand there and stair at me. It was annoying, but I knew he had dementia, so I ignored it. Eventually, he couldn't do that anymore, and the odd thing is, now that he's gone, I still look for him to be watching me while I'm doing things. Weird what you miss when it's gone.

The last couple years where really bad, but they also flew by. My best advise is to just take over what needs to be done, assume nothing, do not believe them when they say it doesn't need to be done, and make it part of your weekly chores.

Another thing that was brought up in another post, do not trust them to have a proper Will drawn up. My parents went to lawyers to have their Will made several times in the last couple of decades. It was always notarized, and as far as I know, legal. When they moved here to Texas, I thought they went to a lawyer to have their Will done. I was given a copy of it, but I didn't look it over since the previous will was done by a lawyer, and legit. This time, dad went cheap and did it himself from something he found online. HUGE MISTAKE!!!

When he passed, the Will wasn't legit, and mom had to hire a lawyer to get it all straightened out. That took six months, but it's still not 100% since the insurance company and Social Security both owe her money and they are playing games about paying it. Mostly they are just stalling since everything has been filed. My best guess is they hope she passes away before they pay her, and then they hope it will be forgotten. We're talking about less then $5,000 so it's more annoying then critical, but it's her money, and they need to pay it. If their Will had been properly done, this would not be an issue.

 

[2manyrocks]

Much cheaper to get a will properly done by a lawyer to start with than to pay one to try to fix a mess afterwards.

 

[D&D]

Oh, you didn't mention it, but: do both MIL/FIL still drive? Does Ark require additional driving tests or anything of the sort after a certain age? Do they have restrictions, like no driving after dark? If they don't, I would expect that to be a huge blow to FIL when the family needs to have an intervention and take his keys.

Here is a snapshot of FLa elder driving rules. Not sure that a vision test every 6 years after 80 does much good. Someone can be fine at 80, and gone way down by 82. Some start their decline Way earlier.

My BIL lives in Fla and shoulda had restrictions at 40

 

[Runner]

Much cheaper to get a will properly done by a lawyer to start with than to pay one to try to fix a mess afterwards.

Power of attorney documents too.

 

[Joel/ak]

Very important. I bug my dad all the time to check on his trust since my brother died. Doesn't help me out but trying to look after me sister in law. According to the trust, the 100acres is split in 3rds (layman terms), my sister in law doesn't even know where the property is so I feel that since she has no interest in the property, why should she have to pay the taxes on it. I talked to her about it and she totally agrees.

Also, I don't trust my sister when money is involved and she hates the sister in law. Sad but it is what it is.

I just want to see her and the kids taking care of. Yes it will make it so I lose financially but they are family even if my brother is gone

 

[RustyA]

Similar deal with my wife's sister and her female roommate 78 and 80 years old. I always kept their lawn and snow equipment serviced for them. Now neither one of them can walk to the mailbox. We also set a chore day and I mow their grass, weed wack, take their trash and recycling to our transfer station and anything putsy they need done. We make a day of it, wife gets a visit in and we usually have pizza or something simple to eat. Before they were always hesitant to ask for help, now that it's a scheduled thing I think it works better for all of us. It's been working good for the last two years.

 

[California]

Also, throw this out there, because as much as people don't want to here it, the money situation. Don't put yourself too far out there money wise ...

When Mom's pension and SS was no longer sufficient for the live-in help, I wasn't about to put up the difference in cash she needed. After the battle I had had with Sis over settling Dad's (separate) estate.

I got some excellent advice from the Credit Union loan officer. He said go to a major bank and have Mom take out a Home Equity Line Of Credit, HELOC. We rolled Mom in in her wheelchair, age 95, lucid but clearly frail. She signed for $50k loan on her $400k house, at 7% adjustable. The bank was at little risk and eager to put their depositor's money to work, on such a safe bet.

That was an ideal solution. Three years later it was simple to pay off the loan from her estate and split the proceeds with Sis, without any arguments this time that I was self-dealing or cheating her. I dodged a bullet using that HELOC instead of fronting the in-home care from my own savings.

I strongly recommend this solution, in place of one heir fronting the money "to be figured out later".

 

[LittleBittyBigJohn]

LOOK AROUND when you are there and take care of things you see that need done. Had a similar conversation with my 55 yo son about his 35 yo not taking inactivity and doing things without being told.

We do that, but the issue is he picks the oddest things to get focused on. For example just this weekend, after I started this thread. He called Saturday morning and told us to get to his house NOW, because he is "done with these stupid chickens" and we need to come get them immediately. When we got there, there was a tree down also. He had randomly decided it was too close to the power lines and had someone cut it down. My wife and I are going today after work to get it cleaned up. But that tree had been in that same spot for 40 years and had not been an issue so far... I have no idea how to plan for that type of stuff.

Another get here now moment... He bought an old drum dolly that was just junk from a junk store. He needed me to cut off the axles and weld on bolts so he can put some harbor freight wheels on it. And it had to be done immediately! I'm hoping chore day can help with that kind of stuff. Maybe my MIL can hold him off for the dolly and chicken type of thing.

 

[ponytug]

We do that, but the issue is he picks the oddest things to get focused on. For example just this weekend, after I started this thread. He called Saturday morning and told us to get to his house NOW, because he is "done with these stupid chickens" and we need to come get them immediately. When we got there, there was a tree down also. He had randomly decided it was too close to the power lines and had someone cut it down. My wife and I are going today after work to get it cleaned up. But that tree had been in that same spot for 40 years and had not been an issue so far... I have no idea how to plan for that type of stuff.

Another get here now moment... He bought an old drum dolly that was just junk from a junk store. He needed me to cut off the axles and weld on bolts so he can put some harbor freight wheels on it. And it had to be done immediately! I'm hoping chore day can help with that kind of stuff. Maybe my MIL can hold him off for the dolly and chicken type of thing.

I'm so sorry. Yes, you can't plan for stuff like that.

Since your MIL hasn't been able to keep your FIL on the rails so to speak, what is going to change, and how is it going to change? Your original chainsaw while angry and someone hanging on to your FIL story post above did not sound very "on the rails" to me.

I am not a doctor, but I do think it would be prudent to get your FIL a physical at a minimum. From a zillion miles away that seems like either an underlying health problem or not so early stages of cognitive impairment. A third party who has the time to be with your FIL might help everyone understand the issue(s) and perhaps make better suggestions than someone like me who doesn't have a clear picture. I am going to hope that it is something treatable for everyone's sake.

All the best,

Peter

 

[2manyrocks]

A urinary tract infection can cause some erratic and unpredictable behavior in the elderly.

 

[EddieWalker]

Is this his normal behavior? Has he always been this way, or has their been a big change in how he acts in the last year or two?

My dad was always pretty easy going, but when the Dementia took over, he would get upset over things that he would make up, and they made no sense to anybody. We joked that he was listening to his make believe friend, and we would have to convince him that everything was going to be OK. But once he got onto something, it could last for weeks or even longer. All we could do is play along, or explain it to him over and over again, knowing that he wouldn't remember.

He would get angry very quickly too. Mostly about his "money" or that we where trying to kill him by not letting him get some new, secret treatment to make him better. He also became sneaky, so we where caught off guard multiple times by thing he had arranged over the phone that we didn't know about until it was about to happen. One time a friend of his showed up to take dad to Oklahoma. Dad knew he couldn't drive in Texas, but figured he could there, and once in Oklahoma, he could rent a car and get to Stanford, where they had a secret treatment for people, but you could only get it if you where there in person. Another time two guys from the County showed up because dad wanted to sell them dirt. He convinced them that he had a massive dirt pit for sale. He told us that he could make hundreds of thousands of dollars selling them dirt.

 

[paulsharvey]

I feel for you, but you kinda have limited options. To start with, I think he is more advanced down the path than you realize. People have mentioned doctors, but I'm going to guess, he's probably not going to go? Having him declared unfit is a huge fight, and will probably destroy the man. Also, I want to make a point, that is Not you or your wife's place; he has a functional wife, and although your intentions are good, you really can't step in over her.

 

[LittleBittyBigJohn]

I am not a doctor, but I do think it would be prudent to get your FIL a physical at a minimum. From a zillion miles away that seems like either an underlying health problem or not so early stages of cognitive impairment. A third party who has the time to be with your FIL might help everyone understand the issue(s) and perhaps make better suggestions than someone like me who doesn't have a clear picture. I am going to hope that it is something treatable for everyone's sake.

MIL is working on all that, and he's having heart issues at the same time so the heart is taking precedence by the doctors. I personally think they have him on too many meds that are conflicting, but I'm no doctor either.

A urinary tract infection can cause some erratic and unpredictable behavior in the elderly.

We have seen this a few times also. They present a little differently than this for him. They usually make him feel so bad he's just mad and not wanting to do anything. Along with wet spots all around...

 

[LittleBittyBigJohn]

I feel for you, but you kinda have limited options. To start with, I think he is more advanced down the path than you realize. People have mentioned doctors, but I'm going to guess, he's probably not going to go? Having him declared unfit is a huge fight, and will probably destroy the man. Also, I want to make a point, that is Not you or your wife's place; he has a functional wife, and although your intentions are good, you really can't step in over her.

We are not trying to step over the MIL for sure, or him for that matter. Just trying to figure out how to work with them to be able to help them the best way we can. MIL is a spitfire that is spry and as sharp as I am. We don't want to take any of his independence away. He is still 90% fine. Just wanting to give MIL piece of mind. So she knows we are here for her and will keep her placing up and running for her. Also keeping the dangerous jobs caught up, so he doesn't feel like he needs to do things that would get him in over his head.