Price Check "Price too good to be true"

nomad · Oct 4, 2003

\"Price too good to be true\"

This statement has always attracted my attention.

Is there any bad smell in the backgrounds of these products for which this expression "price too good to be true" is used?

DK35vince · Oct 4, 2003

Re: \"Price too good to be true\"

( This statement has always attracted my attention.)

The statement that catches my attention is "The tractor is overbuilt".
Overbuilt /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif There is no such thing , Adequate maybe !

Soundguy · Oct 5, 2003

Re: \"Price too good to be true\"

Actually I can think of a few models of overbuilt tractors.. namely anything built in the 30's with more or less moders setups, that are still doing real work today. For instance, Fords 9n, started production in 1939.. that makes those models about 64 years old now. Many of these units are still working..doing real farm chores... probably a few with no rebuild.. that is phenominal lifespan design...You don't see things like that today enginered for that life/duty cycle.. seems everything today is disposable.. even autos...

soundguy

SacandagaBrad · Oct 5, 2003

Re: \"Price too good to be true\"

( seems everything today is disposable.. even autos... )

Especially autos!!!!!! But it beats walking to work.

Brad

normde2001 · Oct 5, 2003

Re: \"Price too good to be true\"

However "over......." anything is generally considered bad, as in overgrown, overpriced, overweight. "Overbuilt" is a "good thing". I used to repair cash registers, many of which are still working today after 75, 80, even 100 years.

stvman · Oct 5, 2003

Re: \"Price too good to be true\"

( The statement that catches my attention is "The tractor is overbuilt".
Overbuilt There is no such thing , Adequate maybe !
)

If I build a loader that I rate for 1000 pounds and do extensive testing and shear off the loader pins at 1001 pounds you could say that is adequate. But if I want to be shure I can increase the guage of steel I use and icrease every aspect of the loader and double the load the loader can handle to 2002 pounds before it breaks but still rate it for 1000 pounds. Is that not overbuilt?

DK35vince · Oct 5, 2003

Re: \"Price too good to be true\"

( If I build a loader that I rate for 1000 pounds and do extensive testing and shear off the loader pins at 1001 pounds you could say that is adequate. But if I want to be shure I can increase the guage of steel I use and icrease every aspect of the loader and double the load the loader can handle to 2002 pounds before it breaks but still rate it for 1000 pounds. Is that not overbuilt? )

That would be considered overbuilt if a compact tractor mfg. actually designed tractors using that formula.

rockyridgefarm · Oct 5, 2003

Re: \"Price too good to be true\"

( everything today is disposable.. even autos...
)

Are you referring to todays autos which easily blow past 200K miles, or the good old ones, that fell apart by 100K?

Slamfire · Oct 5, 2003

Re: \"Price too good to be true\"

That was the way engineers had to think, before they got computers. Still wouldn't hurt, and better materials would make for good products. Outside of autos and computers I haven't had anything that wasn't good value for the money.

stvman · Oct 7, 2003

Re: \"Price too good to be true\"

( Outside of autos and computers I haven't had anything that wasn't good value for the money. )

I have to say I think the fact that I have found such a great bunch of people and such a wealth of information from this forum alone... makes my computer the deal of the century.

nomad · Oct 8, 2003

Re: \"Price too good to be true\"

You all changed my topic? ok, no problem.

There is a truth in that.
Overbuilt doesn't exist. It's only a adequate reflection of "underbuilt" items. So, we can say all real products on the earth are Underbuilt. If there were any overbuilt item like in the given example above (2002 hp tractor instead of required 1001 hp by attachment), then that 2002 hp tractor would have never been in the salvage area if you use it only for that attachment which requires half of its HP of that so-called overbuilt tractor.

So, returning back to original topic by connecting it to your topic,.. if all items are underbuilt, then isn't that saying "price too good to be true" valid for all items?

Junkman · Oct 8, 2003

Re: \"Price too good to be true\"

Huh?????? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

nomad · Oct 9, 2003

Re: \"Price too good to be true\"

( Huh?????? confused )

Why confused? Because my post is more overbuilt than the others above?

NIXON · Oct 9, 2003

Re: \"Price too good to be true\"

Why confused? Because my post is more overbuilt than the others above? )
HUH ?? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

stvman · Oct 9, 2003

Re: \"Price too good to be true\"

( Overbuilt doesn't exist. It's only a adequate reflection of "underbuilt" items. So, we can say all real products on the earth are Underbuilt. If there were any overbuilt item like in the given example above (2002 hp tractor instead of required 1001 hp by attachment), then that 2002 hp tractor would have never been in the salvage area if you use it only for that attachment which requires half of its HP of that so-called overbuilt tractor.
)

If you contract me to build a bridge for the expressed purpose of transporting 100,000 pound vehicles over it and you require it to last 10 years, and fifty years later it still stands and now carries 500,000 pound vehicles over it. Is that not overbuilt???

Junkman · Oct 9, 2003

Re: \"Price too good to be true\"

( ( Overbuilt doesn't exist. It's only a adequate reflection of "underbuilt" items. So, we can say all real products on the earth are Underbuilt. If there were any overbuilt item like in the given example above (2002 hp tractor instead of required 1001 hp by attachment), then that 2002 hp tractor would have never been in the salvage area if you use it only for that attachment which requires half of its HP of that so-called overbuilt tractor.
)

If you contract me to build a bridge for the expressed purpose of transporting 100,000 pound vehicles over it and you require it to last 10 years, and fifty years later it still stands and now carries 500,000 pound vehicles over it. Is that not overbuilt??? )

NO...... it is just over budget!!!!!!

chim · Oct 10, 2003

Re: \"Price too good to be true\"

I know it's just a word game (can't spell semantics /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif), but I look at it as being "underrated" or "overrated".

For example, the bridge is rated at 40 tons. It won't fail at 80,001 pounds of load unless the engineer is on drugs. The design was for something in excess of the 40 tons, and the difference between the design and the rating is the safetry factor. It could have actually been designed for 60 tons and tagged 40. The more "underrated" something is, the more "overbuilt" it appears to be........................chim

nomad · Oct 10, 2003

Re: \"Price too good to be true\"

There is no word game here. The game/problem is in definitions of terms which people have different understandings. Such confusions are due to the education system on the earth which is claimed to be objective. We see it's not. I will explain what I am trying to tell by an example/s;

That bridge's real rate is not 100,000 pounds actually, but more than 500,000 pounds. They don't say the truth (its real rate) and they say it is an "overbuilt" bridge.

Lets take a simpler example; a tractor. What quantity/parameter do you use to rate it? HP or KW, i.e. Power, isn't it? What's the simplest definition of the term Power? It's energy per time. Enegry units are joule or cal. Then, there is time there. What is it? Usually, it's taken as seconds to find the power. For ex. KW = KiloJoule / Second.
In old days, people didn't know about milliseconds, nanoseconds, etc. So, they usually used "second" as "instant" moment, smallest time interval. Using a tractor for 1 hour energy and calculating its power using "second" may not be a problem. But lets imagine this; your tractor will be used for 1000 (tousand) years to pull the same attachment nonstop. Now, you know how much energy (in joule or calory) you need. Say it is A joules. Divide it to 31536000000 seconds (total seconds in 1000 years) to find the power W. Lets say it is X Watts. Now, do the same by assuming you will use that tractor for 1 hour (3600 seconds). Your energy need is, say, B joules. Divide it to 3600 seconds to calculate the power you need from your tractor. Lets say it is Y Watts.

Now, accoding to the education system/science/technology, X = Y... because it's assumed that energy need changes with time linearly and continuously. And this assumption is valid even for 100000000 years... This is wrong. Science / technology / education system save themselves by introducing a new term like "fatique" not to take the "long term/time" periods in calculating the power. They use "instant energy" concept (usually, for ex., energy amount in 1 second) when calculating the power. But this "instant" time interval is NOT infinitesimal, but only 1 second. Mathematically/theoretically, there may exist an infinitesimal time interval and X may be equal to Y. But physically/in real life, things are different and X is not equal to Y. That's why they define a new term "fatique", a failure in time.

So, as a conclusion, if you consider all factors in designing of which many of them are ignored/neglected by the designers, no product today is overbuilt.

ps: sorry about long post. Next time, will keep it shorter by a simpler example to tell what I meant.

kensfarm · Oct 10, 2003

Re: \"Price too good to be true\"

Well if this thread didn't exist.. it would be "too good to be true".

Wake up Neo! The Matrix has you!

nomad · Oct 10, 2003

Re: \"Price too good to be true\"

I never watch any movie. But this is a movie, I heard.
"It must be too simple to be true" as it's only a movie.
This thread is real.
Have your say on my original (first) post in this thread?