Price fix and oil

[coffeeman]

I seem to remember; Standard oil in early 1900s was not allowed to fix and control pricing of oil. I don't know if I have the name right but I think the idea is correct. What is the difference between Standard and the oil producers of today fixing prices. The big users of oil should file suit against those countries that fix prices just like the US or US companies sometime get sued by out of the country folks.

I predict; in the next 10 years some new tech process to extract energy in a real cheap way. Most likely an idea out of left field. I think idea may come from some backyard person tinkering with a pet idea he has had for years. At this point in time we still have people who can do things. If any thing is going to be downfall of this country it's the outsourcing of everything; including computer developing.

I also predict; by Jan. 09 gasoline will be in the low $2 range. Not cheap but better than now. I don't know why I think this. It's just over the years all big changes always seem to boom then bust. Why wouldn't the same thing happen for oil.

One last prediction; if my predictions are right we all will be a lot happier.

Just a couple rambling thoughts from Coffeeman.

 

[Alan L.]

I hope you're right about the $2 gas. However I am pretty sure the price of oil has more to do with world demand, and also the speculators running the price up.

 

[MikePA]

Suing the oil producing countries will accomplish nothing.

 

[Western]

I agree with Mike,
All they would have to do is cut us off, then see where the prices go.

We need to drill OUR oil fields and work on other sources of energy, in a smart way. I don't think "Corn" ethynol is the answer unless higher prices are the objective. I don't think a food product is a smart choice unless your a senetor with a corn growing constiuancy

 

[coffeeman]

Suing the oil producing countries will accomplish nothing.

Mike

Your right on the money. I wrote that sort of 1/2 joking, but there ways to enhance our position. It starts with right folks in congress etc. and goes from there. On that price in the low to mid $2 range, I do believe it's possible. Look at history and the booms and busts. The wild card is the foreign price fixing. The age old supply and demand doesn't work here when countries limit production.

Cheers

 

[mjarrels]

I have been on many Navy ships powered by Nuke reactors without any problem... By product was hot showers. Look at what powered San Francisco during their last large earthquake... Yep Navy ships.

mark

 

[N80]

Here is another thing I don't understand. All the folks that say we shouldn't drill in ANWAR, off the Pacific coast and in the Gulf of Mexico claim that all this oil would only account for a small percentage of what we need and use and is thus insignificant and not worth the trouble.

And yet, when someone throws a rock at someone else in Nigeria, which accounts for only a tiny percentage of what we use, speculators panic and we see prices go up AT THE PUMP within days.

So if such a tiny amount can have a big impact, securing even small amount of OUR OWN OIL, should help insulate us from such non sense.

I'm tired of hearing that pumping our own oil is too little and too late. It quite clearly is not.

 

[dmccarty]

And besides the speculation there is the supposedly the low value for the dollar. Low dollars are supposed to push money into commodities like oil, precious metals, etc. Don't know if its true but it seems like in the last week or so the dollar strengthened and the oil price dropped. Then then we had a bad report on the economy and dollar dropped and oil rose. So maybe there is truth in that as well.

And I too am tired of hearing that drilling in ANWAR won't help because its too little. Its just not true. We have very real possiblities of large amounts of oil off the coasts but the oil companies can't even look for oil much less drill. If Kennedy has a fit because of Greenie Wind Farms ruining his view from his mansion there oil drilling on the coasts won't happen until oil prices really has impacted the econonmy in a very major way.

The data on offshore oil seems to indicate large fields. But the data is old and new searches supposedly are prohibited. The world got real excited about the amount of oil found off Brazil. The oil the data suggests is off the coasts is far more than what is down in Brazil.

But people worring about the view and oil spills so until things get much worse... Like another big hurricane in the gulf....

The thing about oil spills I have never understood, is that during WWII large number of ships where sunk right off the east coast. Lots of the ships were tankers. Where did the oil go? These ships ran right up close to shore to try to get away from the UBOATS. So where is the oil? I never heard of massive oil spill clean ups. There was a war on so what happen to the oil?

Now I don't mean we should go find it to put in the tractor. But we hear OIL SPILL and its sold as a huge disaster. And it is. For now. But then it goes away. Given that the oil companies now adays would rightfully force to clean up the spill why aren't we drilling?

I guess it ruins the view from the rentals and mansions...

Another tid bit of info. A factoid as CNN would call it.

During the 70s and early 80s, 8% of a family income went to transportation cost. During the 90s and early 2000s it was 4%. Now we are at 6%.

Later,
Dan

 

[IH3444]

Oil Shale Reserves - A Daily Reckoning White Paper Report

 

[EddieWalker]

Interesting story. I knew there was allot of oil in Utah and Colorado, but I had no idea that there is five times as much oil there as in Saudi Arabia. Sure would be nice if they could find a way to get it out of the shale!!!

I'm sort of simple on the oil price increases. During the 90's the price of oil stayed pretty consistant after the first Gulf War. Then it went up again with the second Gulf War. Those were expected and not that big of a deal. In time, I figured the price would come back down again or settle to a reasonable amount.

Then a few years ago, the price of oil started jumping. It's doubled in the last year from one report, but whatever the actual increase, it's all happened in the last two years.

China and India have been getting the blame for this for awhile now, but there usage really doesn't make allot of sense for the recent increases. Like George said, the suppliers are not even close to capacity, so the large demand by China and India isn't even a concern. China and India are using allot of oil in their growth, but it's a slow, steady growth that is mired in all sorts of problems.

The one thing that I've only heard mentioned a few times is the US Government is creating this problem. Our local Congressman, Kevin Eltife, was on the news complaining that 16 laws have been passed in the last two years to limit refineries in what they can produce and how they can make fuel. Two years ago,we got a new leader in Congress and the House. Two years ago, fuel prices started to jump. The war has been going on before then and during the years before the new House and Senate Leadership, we had the same President.

I know where the problem is and I vote accordingly.

Eddie

 

[turbo36]

Interesting story. I knew there was allot of oil in Utah and Colorado, but I had no idea that there is five times as much oil there as in Saudi Arabia. Sure would be nice if they could find a way to get it out of the shale!!!

I'm sort of simple on the oil price increases. During the 90's the price of oil stayed pretty consistant after the first Gulf War. Then it went up again with the second Gulf War. Those were expected and not that big of a deal. In time, I figured the price would come back down again or settle to a reasonable amount.

Then a few years ago, the price of oil started jumping. It's doubled in the last year from one report, but whatever the actual increase, it's all happened in the last two years.

China and India have been getting the blame for this for awhile now, but there usage really doesn't make allot of sense for the recent increases. Like George said, the suppliers are not even close to capacity, so the large demand by China and India isn't even a concern. China and India are using allot of oil in their growth, but it's a slow, steady growth that is mired in all sorts of problems.

The one thing that I've only heard mentioned a few times is the US Government is creating this problem. Our local Congressman, Kevin Eltife, was on the news complaining that 16 laws have been passed in the last two years to limit refineries in what they can produce and how they can make fuel. Two years ago,we got a new leader in Congress and the House. Two years ago, fuel prices started to jump. The war has been going on before then and during the years before the new House and Senate Leadership, we had the same President.

I know where the problem is and I vote accordingly.

Eddie

Are you saying the democrats are causing the gas price increase? If so you are just plain wrong. China's growth is not "slow annd steady" it is explosive and they are buying oil reserves around the world to try and secure that growth. I'm sorry but to blame the price of gas on the lack of new refineries is naive and simplistic. Everyone wants a free market until it bites them in the butt and then they want scream for regulation.

 

[Bird]

Folks, please don't forget that politics is a prohibited topic on Tractorbynet.

 

[EddieWalker]

Are you saying the democrats are causing the gas price increase? If so you are just plain wrong. China's growth is not "slow annd steady" it is explosive and they are buying oil reserves around the world to try and secure that growth. I'm sorry but to blame the price of gas on the lack of new refineries is naive and simplistic. Everyone wants a free market until it bites them in the butt and then they want scream for regulation.

I'd like to see less regulation. ALLOT less. I feel that one of the biggest reasons for gasoline being as expensive as it is, is due to too much regulation.

For those who don't know or remember, California introduced one regulation after another to make the fuel burn cleaner. MTB was the last straw. It raised the price of gasoline anonther dime per gallon, cut down on fuel economy, melted fuel lines and carberator parts and poisoned the water in the ground. Do you want to ask what party is responsible for that boondogle?

Pointing fingers at those responsible seems to be against the rules, but one party is guilty of repeatedly passing stupid laws that make it more expensive and harder to produce the fuel that we all need. Blaming China and everyone else for it is just like putting your head in the sand and ignoring the reasons that are caused by high prices here. Nobody is denying that other parts of the world are influencing the price of crude oil, but for some reason, we don't hear about the refusal to develop our own resourse. ANWAR is an area that has allot of oil.

Chuck Shumer said that if it was developed, it would only decrease the price of gasoline by one penny. He's a liar. He also said that if OPEC increased output by a million gallons, gasoline would decrease in price by 20 cents. Obviously he's pandering to his audiance, but there are people out there who belive him.

There is no shortage of oil. There is allot of it out there and we are still descovering more of it. There is a shortage of refineries and an over abundance of laws that make it dificult and impossible to supply it. Who's passing these laws? 16 new laws in the last two years and the price of fuel is going crazy. Who's responsible for all the new laws?

If we got our own country in line, we wouldn't have to blame others for being stupid here. We don't need to buy OPEC oil, there is more oil in Utah and that reagion then in Saudi Arabia. We have allot of oil, more then enough to be self sufficient. The problem is not China or India.

Eddie

 

[EddieWalker]

I'm all for drilling off the coast of Florida. I know there's allot of oil there and Cuba has been making allot of news lately about drilling for it while we refuse to do so. Same with California or anywhere else there's oil. I'm sorry if I gave the impression that I'm against drilling in some places and not in others. I'm for driling anywhere there is oil.

I don't know the details on who did what about the oil drilling in Florida, but I'd be willing to bet that it was led by special interest groups and the politicians that stoped the oil drilling should be voted out of office. It doesn't matter what party they say they are, if they are not for the American People, they don't belong in office.

I would like to think that my head is not in the sand, but you could be right. That's why I'm hear. Of course, you failed to address my other comments and just blamed China and India for the oil prices. Nobody is arguing that they are using allot more then before, but it's not such a significant increase to justify the price increase. They have been buying more and more oil for the last twenty years. It increases every year, but something else happened in the last two years. That is the problem, not China and India. People and especially the media, have just started using it as a convienient excuse to put the blame elsewhere. It's not our fault, so there's nothing we can do about it.

I say it is our fault and it started two years ago. If my head was in the sand, I'd agree with you and pretend it's just like we're being told. Unfortunately, it doesn't add up. OPEC is not producing more oil, they are at a level they feel makes them the most money. They can easily increase production to meet the demand but chose not to. That is the problem with crude oil prices. Why are they doing this is the question.

To add to the increase in oil price, we have the government making it more and more expensive to turn that oil into fuel. Again, this has nothing to do with China, India or Florida. It is pure politics and a huge contributor to the price we pay at the pump. Who is passing these laws and regulations?

Eddie

 

[N80]

Sorry Eddie but this is the same old story played over and over for those who want to keep thier head in the sand and rfuse to face the facts.

The fact is that you and I neither know nor understand the facts. That's part of the problem.

Oil is a commodity whose price is set by the free market - speculation is part of the deal so get used to it.

Because oil is allowed to be traded as a commodity makes it a commodity in name only. Are water and electricity commodities? Why not?

And getting used to it is exactly the nature of the problem. Speculation is the biggest problem and its being done contrary to the laws pertaining to other futures markets. Even the speculators and the Saudis agree that the system is broken. Investigations into the oil futures market are turning up some of these problems, but they have no teeth. How convenient.

I don't have a problem with drilling in Awar but that is a drop in the bucket compared to the total world market and won't affect the price of oil.

That logic does not work and I explained why above. Fears about problems in Nigeria have an effect on the world oil markets and its production is miniscule. I'm so tired of hearing that ANWAR won't help. It makes no sense.

Why aren't you talking about drilling off the coast of Florida?

We've discussed that already, I've mentioned ANWAR, the Gulf Coast and the Pacific Coast. Are you jumping into a thread without reading it?

There is probably more oil there then in Anwar but didn't the Presidents brother put a stop to that? Talk about trying to have it both ways.

I don't know about whether Jeb actually had anything to do with that or not. Probably not. Maybe you can produce some evidence? But so what if he did? I don't care what party you are in, forcing this country to be dependant on other countries for its energy and national security is wrong and needs to be fixed.

 

[dmccarty]

Drilling for oil off of FLA coast has been "banned" for decades due to the fear of chasing off the tourists.

Later,
Dan

 

[N80]

Drilling for oil off of FLA coast has been "banned" for decades due to the fear of chasing off the tourists.

Later,
Dan

I've lived in Florida a couple of times. If oil wells would run the tourists of, the more the better!

 

[MikePA]

I'm so tired of hearing that ANWAR won't help. It makes no sense.

I agree. This same stupid logic was used back in the 90s. Had the bill not been vetoed back then, those wells would be online now. The more energy independent we can get, the better. Some people don't see that.