Price Check Price Check Comparison CK2610HST vs L2501HST

[MichiganIron]

Just a clarification, the KIOTI CK10 Series Linked Pedal does not shift the transmission range. It only controls the throttle with the HST Pedal.

Hope this helps,

 

[toukow]

toukow:

My CK2610 with R4's arrived just after noon, on Monday (2 days ago), along with a rear blade, box blade, pallet forks and a 3pt. quick attach. Options that were dealer installed are the linked throttle, and the rear remotes... Floor mat is back ordered.

Since delivery, I have spent a couple of hours grading my 200 yard driveway.
My first impressions are:
- The linked pedal is a "must have" feature for me - however, the implementation is not perfect - it doesn't open the throttle enough in reverse. The mechanism is a wonder to behold - I'm not sure how they could have made it more complicated.
- The 3pt lift action is "jerky", perhaps it will smooth out over time (The control lever is shorter than what I'm accustomed to, with a much shorter lever travel distance.
- The ability to exit from the right side is nice to have. The restricted egress on the L2501 would be an irritant.
- R4's definitely have less traction than R1's in loose material.
- The inside turning radius (in 2wd) is incredible... I'm not sure what they measured for the "8ft radius" published in the spec sheet, but inside to inside of the rear tire is significantly less. Perhaps radius and diameter were confused in translation?
- The 2wd/4wd control location could be much more convenient.
- Range selector is stiff and "notchy" - but I'm figuring out the tricks.

Thanks for your observations on your new tractor.

Not sure how much longer to get mine delivered, and take mine in trade. It seems strange to me to get a price for my trade-in tractor simply based on photos, no actual physical inspection. Don't think there will be issues given mine is in good shape and I fully disclosed any issues, but that remains to be seen.

Hopefully the three point actuation smooths out, as that would be annoying. The only comments I had read with someone having an issue was leak down.

It will be nice to have access from the right side, which I currently don't. I asked about buying a step for the right side, one dealer said it was available, mine said that it wasn't. As I mentioned in another thread on chains for this model, I ordered the left side step for $100 from a CK3510SE which is a bit lower to compensate for the R1 tires, and pretty much brings it back to the level of having R4's. My knees ain't what they used to be.

When you comment on the linked throttle ' The mechanism is a wonder to behold - I'm not sure how they could have made it more complicated.' That's from a physical examination of components or you happen to have a controls schematic? Either way doesn't sound encouraging. I saw your and others comments on usage of this feature, and I can see how one does exactly the wrong thing and applies more pedal throttle in a situation where it starts to bog down, effectively going to a higher gearing (no range change as clarified) as I understand it.

I'm glad I stayed with the R1's, given your comments. I got the impression the R4's would last longer,have a tougher carcase, but not a factor given my usage as I don't do much heavy FEL work and never drive on grass. After our major snow event (major for Seattle anyway), snow traction is my focus. Didn't get a price break though on the R1's as Kubota was willing to do.

I had read about the shifting issues, and after searching the forum and seeing the issues with Kubota in this regard as well, realized it's the nature of the beast with HST. My dealer gave advice that matched up exactly with that in the Kubota L2501 owner's manual stated below. The Kioti manual I downloaded from the forum link does not mention pushing the forward pedal, simply engaging/disengaging the clutch. In general, Kioti could do better on the documentation side of the equation in my mind, or I'm just not searching correctly. I've asked for a price on the Kioti service manual, but haven't heard anything yet.

A If it is difficult to shift the lever into L, M, or H from neutral position:
On slopes be sure to set the parking brake before starting the procedure.
(1) Slightly depress the speed control pedal to rotate the gears inside of the transmission.
(2)Release the speed control pedal to the neutral position.
(3)Depress the clutch pedal, wait for a moment and then shift the lever.

The Kubota threads say it just becomes second nature. On my property I don't see changing ranges much. Thanks for sharing your initial evaluation, Toukow

 

[toukow]

Update: My dealer ordered the 3510SE step, but it would not fit the 2610 model. I'll make something else I guess, but will stick with R1's.

 

[tradosaurus]

When I was shopping for a new tractor Branson and Kioti were immediately off the list because the nearest dealer was 2 hours from me.

It was between NH and Kubota and either dealer would have been fine with me.

I am surprised at how close the price point is between Kubota and Kioti. I've heard stories of Branson tractors being significantly cheaper than Kubota.

 

[JimHbar]

Hopefully the three point actuation smooths out, as that would be annoying. The only comments I had read with someone having an issue was leak down.

More than anything, it's a point of contrast to my old tractor - It's 3Pt control comes out the top of the fender, where you can reference/rest your hand, and the control has a travel range of approx. 10 inches, through perhaps 15 degrees of arc. The CK2610 lever has a travel range of about 6 inches measured at the top of the lever, travels through an arc approaching 30 degrees, and there is no surface to reference your hand off of.

When you comment on the linked throttle ' The mechanism is a wonder to behold - I'm not sure how they could have made it more complicated.' That's from a physical examination of components or you happen to have a controls schematic? Either way doesn't sound encouraging.

Don't read too much into my comment - You have to understand that I spent my professional career doing and supervising custom machine design for industry. Just calling it the way I see it.
BTW, it's all mechanical - no schematic.

The Kubota threads say it just becomes second nature. On my property I don't see changing ranges much. Thanks for sharing your initial evaluation, Toukow

I have the range selector figured out. And for what I have been doing with the tractor, I am shifting ranges quite frequently.

And a "Heads - Up"
I have about 8 hours on the tractor so far, and yesterday I inadvertently knocked the detented rear remote valve lever while doing some loader work. All of a sudden, the loader would not lift much, the engine would not rev up correctly to "travel", there was a "whine" coming from the engine, and the 3pt would not lift...
Shut it down, got off the tractor, and switched gears in my mind from "machine operator" to "engineer".
Quickly found the valve lever was knocked back, dead-heading the flow against the quick connect.
- The whine was the relief valve, with the pump dead-heading against the blocked port.
- The engine would not rev correctly, due to the load from the pump.
- 3pt would not lift due to the fact that it is in the circuit after the remote valves.

I suspect with many new tractor owners, that incident would have resulted in a panic call to the dealer.
If one does not recognize what is happening (and the tractor is left running), it would be easy to overheat the hydraulics, and potentially do some damage.

 

[toukow]

I am surprised at how close the price point is between Kubota and Kioti.

I agree, but then perhaps my lousy price haggling played a factor? When you start adding the options, they draw apart a bit more. I couldn't really get either brand to move on price, but did find that Kioti had an additional incentive going on for $300 off until March 31, in addition to the cash discount I was getting. Price wasn't much of a factor for me, simply the ergonomics made the decision for me.

....

Don't read too much into my comment - You have to understand that I spent my professional career doing and supervising custom machine design for industry. Just calling it the way I see it.
BTW, it's all mechanical - no schematic.

And a "Heads - Up"

Quickly found the valve lever was knocked back, dead-heading the flow against the quick connect.
- The whine was the relief valve, with the pump dead-heading against the blocked port.
- The engine would not rev correctly, due to the load from the pump.
- 3pt would not lift due to the fact that it is in the circuit after the remote valves.

I suspect with many new tractor owners, that incident would have resulted in a panic call to the dealer.
If one does not recognize what is happening (and the tractor is left running), it would be easy to overheat the hydraulics, and potentially do some damage.

I'll have to check out the linked throttle linkage. My dealer said mine may be here later this week. One of the first thing I'll have to become accustomed to is not automatically pushing in the clutch as I did in the test drive.

I inadvertently dead headed my backhoe connection, and absolutely did panic thinking I screwed something up permanently. Being an electrical, I knew nothing about bypass protection valves. I didn't know those other systems you note would be affected. Bypass valve is not a sound you forget easily, and with my memory that's a good thing.... Good advice, I'll watch those levers!

 

[prof fate]

Details...my CK3510 was about $500 less than an RK37 and $3500 less than a Kubota.

And the kioti included a lot of nice standard items that were options on the kubota - SSQA bucket ($500 kubota option), bucket level indicator ($75 kubota option), grab handles on both fenders ($75ish on a kubota for the second handle).

I also got: loaded rear tires (the kioti deal at the time, free), 2 rear remotes ($295. $900 at kubota), arm rest, rubber floor mat, horn, mirror (best thing ever), cruise and link pedal - $400 plus the rear remote.

So the options put it at least a grand less yet than a similar kubota.

Plus 0 down and 0% financing, free delivery.

I did the 50 hours srevice, about $120 in fluids/filters.

As for dealers...hard to say these days what is good or not, who will be aorund or not. People retire and close up. They sell out - the big thing now are 'chain' dealers -the local john deere had 3 stores, got bought by an outfit with 80 some stores.

If the tractor never breaks...you never need the dealer. And they'll go out of business for lack of parts and service work.

My dealer is also a case/ih, and cub cadet dealer...there are a couple of others an hour-ish away i've not visited (but should). Been to allthe nearby kubota dealers - not sure how the one stays in business..BIG inventory and NOBODY will wait on you, calling and you get put on hold or hung up on...I spent 1/2 hour walking around the store and NOBODY said hi or asked if I needed help...inside and outside, sat on tractors, etc. I wouldn't buy from them.

 

[PADan]

[JimHbar;

- R4's definitely have less traction than R1's in loose material.]

Did you have the tires filled? If not, do you wish you would have? I'm trying to decide if I want to get the tires loaded when I buy. Thanks

 

[JimHbar]

PADan: My tires are filled.

If you are doing loader work, you should have loaded tires and/or a large ballast weight.

 

[MaineGuy1]

I would have your rear tires filled, helps with loader work and helps you get more power to the ground.