Price Check Price check - 9/14/16 - Kioti NX6010HST Cab

[paulfun9]

How many NX4510 owners are dissatisfied?. Some people just always "need" to have more horsepower often with only vague reasons to support their decisions. 60 horsepower CUTs have only been on the market for a few years. Everybody before then bought and were almost all happy with machines that put out less than 50hp. It is an example of marketing BS that is very successful at up selling. I suspect that many of the folks who "need" 60 hp are buying their first CUT. That should tell us something.

If you think I was the only one who found some things lacking on the equipment I had to choose from in the past your very foolish. Even my first lawn mower when I was a kid showed me signs that it should be bigger. I can still to this day remember talking to the local back yard mechanic about finding a bigger motor for it so I could cut some of the yards I did faster because the old ladies were too cheep to pay to have it cut every week and by the time they called it took twice the time because I had to go so slow.
Just because the newer buyer knows what kind of things would bother them doesn't imply anything other than common sense and the ability to be honest with themselves to me.
I kind of look at like the guy who is perfectly content doing 66.1 MPH in the passing lane thinking just because he is content should mean that the 30 cars that are stuck behind should all be just as content as he is. Just pull over and yield into the right lane and let them by already!

 

[IslandTractor]

If you think I was the only one who found some things lacking on the equipment I had to choose from in the past your very foolish. Even my first lawn mower when I was a kid showed me signs that it should be bigger. I can still to this day remember talking to the local back yard mechanic about finding a bigger motor for it so I could cut some of the yards I did faster because the old ladies were too cheep to pay to have it cut every week and by the time they called it took twice the time because I had to go so slow. Just because the newer buyer knows what kind of things would bother them doesn't imply anything other than common sense and the ability to be honest with themselves to me. I kind of look at like the guy who is perfectly content doing 66.1 MPH in the passing lane thinking just because he is content should mean that the 30 cars that are stuck behind should all be just as content as he is. Just pull over and yield into the right lane and let them by already!

Non responsive reply. Nobody's driving an underpowered jalopy down the road. Using your off topic analogy, we're talking simply about the difference between a car with a single four barrel carb and one with the same engine with dual carbs. Unless your ego is tied up in drag racing there is little practical difference in the highway.

If you want to demonstrate that newbies should fork over an extra six grand for essentially the same tractor:

1) Find us threads started by dissatisfied NX4510 owners.

2) Explain why many many thousands of CUT owners were perfectly happy with their sub50hp tractors purchased before marketers decided they could make more money by changing fuel delivery settings.

3) Why didn't we see threads on "I sure wish they'd make a 60hp version of my excellent 40hp tractor" from legions of happy Kubota and Kioti owners?

3) Explain how the advantages of 60 hp are limited unless you buy eight foot implements ($$$$$) instead of the more standard six footers.

4) Explain why $6000 and 15 hp gets you precisely zero additional loader or 3pt lift and only a hundred lbs of tractor mass?

The NX6010 might make sense for a farmer with a bunch of utility tractors who wants a smaller tractor that can still use the Cat 2 implements he already owns. It makes very little sense for the typical CUT user and no sense at all for a first time CUT buyer.

 

[rcooley4]

How many NX4510 owners are dissatisfied?. Some people just always "need" to have more horsepower often with only vague reasons to support their decisions. 60 horsepower CUTs have only been on the market for a few years. Everybody before then bought and were almost all happy with machines that put out less than 50hp. It is an example of marketing BS that is very successful at up selling. I suspect that many of the folks who "need" 60 hp are buying their first CUT. That should tell us something.

While this may be my first CUT purchase, it don't mean it's my first rodeo. I have many hours operating under-powered SEE trucks wimpy army low boys graders, bulldozers and all kinds of random army equipment. In the civilian world I always wish my 25hp 60" ZR lawn mower had more power, my friends JD2520 is way under powered. To me, with my life experience I know I won't be satisfied unless I get as much HP as I can in a given chassis.

The HP discussion will never be won or lost, there will always be people on either side that will go on until they are blue in the face justifying their point of view. While HP size is worth considering and I have this thread is about whether or not the price for an NX6010 and attachments is a good price or not. So let's get back on topic, here's where I'm at with the dealer as of Saturday.

Item
$43,500.00 (with 0% for 60mo) Kioti NX6010 cab tractor, with hydro trans, industrial tires filled with rim guard, rear wiper, 3rd function switch mounted on the joystick, hydraulic hoses run to the front of the loader arms, Rear hydraulic valve. Plus additional rear remote installed.

$2,900.00 WR Long 4 in 1 UJ172
$2,975.00 Woods Brush Hog BB720X
$4,095.00 Woods tiller GHT72
$650.00 48 pallet forks rated at 4,000lbs
$3,750.00 Finish mower woods PRD8400
$3,650.00 Woods Snow Blower SB84C
$1,200.00 Woods Box Scrapers BSM72

The BOLD items are the ones I'm thinking about buying now (yes, I know if I bought a cheaper tractor then I wouldn't have to wait for the other items), my target budget is 55K or less, adding up the bold items I'm at $57,870.00. Do you think there is enough wiggle room in there for the dealer to come down to 55K? At this point I haven't spent any time trying to talk him down or getting a price at another dealer, once I have gathered all the prices for the differant items and I know excalty what's included then I'll start beating him up on price.

Right now I'm waiting to hear back form the dealer on these questions:
1. Linked HST to throttle, is that standard or and potion? Was it included it the price you gave me?

2. Rear defrost, is that standard or an option or does it come standard when the rear wiper is added? Was it included it the price you gave me?

3. Arm rest's on the seat, is that standard or and potion? Was it included it the price you gave me?

4. Lighting, Does it come standard with the front and rear lights up on the cab? Do they offer an LED option?

5. What is the price for the woods 72" finish mower? I measured the width of the NX on your lot (71 or 72") and I believe it is very similar to the 6010 so the 72" finish mower may be a better option than the 84"

6. Are the side view mirrors standard or and potion? Was it included it the price you gave me?

7. I'm a little confused on the rear remotes, is it one for the front loader actuated on the joystick and 2 more in the rear? For a total of 3 remotes?

 

[IslandTractor]

To me, with my life experience I know I won't be sissified unless I get as much HP as I can in a given chassis.

Sissified? Freudian slip perhaps???

 

[rcooley4]

Sissified? Freudian slip perhaps???

Oops, meant satisfied... :ashamed: I fixed it, Good catch, lol

 

[IslandTractor]

Oops, meant satisfied... :ashamed: I fixed it, Good catch, lol

I figured as much. It was a good laugh though.

 

[paulfun9]

Non responsive reply. Nobody's driving an underpowered jalopy down the road. Using your off topic analogy, we're talking simply about the difference between a car with a single four barrel carb and one with the same engine with dual carbs. Unless your ego is tied up in drag racing there is little practical difference in the highway.

If you want to demonstrate that newbies should fork over an extra six grand for essentially the same tractor:

1) Find us threads started by dissatisfied NX4510 owners.

2) Explain why many many thousands of CUT owners were perfectly happy with their sub50hp tractors purchased before marketers decided they could make more money by changing fuel delivery settings.

3) Why didn't we see threads on "I sure wish they'd make a 60hp version of my excellent 40hp tractor" from legions of happy Kubota and Kioti owners?

3) Explain how the advantages of 60 hp are limited unless you buy eight foot implements ($$$$$) instead of the more standard six footers.

4) Explain why $6000 and 15 hp gets you precisely zero additional loader or 3pt lift and only a hundred lbs of tractor mass?

The NX6010 might make sense for a farmer with a bunch of utility tractors who wants a smaller tractor that can still use the Cat 2 implements he already owns. It makes very little sense for the typical CUT user and no sense at all for a first time CUT buyer.

You say my analogy has no bearing on the subject but your dismissal of it clearly shows mindset and the difference in people Basically those 30 cars trapped behind you who probably have no aspirations of drag racing still want to get around you and get home to play with their 60 HP tractors or they wouldn't be up tailgating on the highway. They also wouldn't be cursing you or trying to pass in the right lane and when they finally get a chance to get by there wouldn't be 30 cars zooming past at a faster pace.

I would wager to say that previous customers have mentioned more HP when the company sent them surveys or when the company had marketing research done or it wouldn't be an option right now. Its not like some guy sitting in an office decided to offer more HP just to take more money away from us He was actually looking at market research reports and found that a higher percentage of people wanted more HP and used that to figure out what the bigger majority would pay for the power. Looking at the sales overall not just from those of us who post here would answer your questions and validate the OP's concerns but unfortunately we are not the voice of all the customers, only a small sampling of them and our difference on the subject is probably nothing but a blip on the radar mixed in with hundreds of thousands of other blips that we don't even see!

 

[DieselBound]

Things work until they don't.

I have a B7800 (30hp). Why would I want an NX4510?

So, I'm now buying a bigger tractor. Maybe an NX4510 would be sufficient, I don't know, I cannot see into the future (if I knew what I was going to be doing when I bought my B7800 I would have gotten something bigger). My recent purchase will be the LAST time I purchase a tractor. If I need a smaller tractor I will still have my B7800 (which can go places where and NX cannot go). There is a possibility that the NX5510 will be used outside of my farm: there are specs for a 55hp tractor to do what's required (ag folks providing funding for projects); if I bought an NX4510 this wouldn't be an option for me.

Life isn't black and white. I respect others opinions; and since I'm not on the hook for any poor economic decision that they might make I could care less (only that their expectations, however measured, get met).

I'm happy that IslandTractor is perfectly content with his setup: it's great when a plan works out perfectly! I've had the same with my B7800. Others are likely also perfectly happy, even those with larger tractors!

 

[IslandTractor]

Guys, my point is simple. Horsepower is not the be all end all measure of tractor performance. And, horsepower has literally zero impact on many parameters that really do impact tractor performance. Weight, loader capacity, 3PT lift are all at least as or more important. That is, unless you think a BX25 is a more capable machine than a CK20s (with BH). Yet these discussions are always dominated by "how much horsepower do I need" questions. Why? I'm convinced it is because the marketing guys aim to appeal to our inner teenager more than to a rationale adult brain. And they are successful. Of course they make more money selling the gussied up tractors. An NX6010 costs almost exactly what a NX4510 cost to manufacture. A few bucks more for bigger tires. Just like the pickup manufacturers make more on overpriced limited platinum Cadillac Eddie Bauer editions than they do on work trucks. Guess which type is actually used for work?

Spend your money anyway you want but don't try to pass off marketing BS as wisdom. More horsepower is more often unnecessary than useful in a given frame size and you can spend that extra money on implements that will make ten times as much difference to work than extra horsepower.

 

[DieselBound]

^^^ I agree. I am also wanting to make sure that people understand that, yes, HP CAN be important, and that because they might choose more HP that they shouldn't be worried about wearing a Scarlett Letter.

It used to be that HP was meant to provide a sense of difference in what machines could do (within the actual definition of power [Power = Work * Time]). As you have clearly noted, for many of the likely work requirements ALL NXs perform more or less the same.

We're hashing this over and over. I'm not seeing it produce any different results.