Price Check Price check - 9/14/16 - Kioti NX6010HST Cab

[IslandTractor]

The NX4510 and NX6010 are not the same tractor. There is more of a difference than just 15 HP. It is a bigger frame, heavier tractor and is Cat 2 ready and probably more. Was on the dealer lot just yesterday and they had a NX5010, I made a comment to him how much smaller it looked than my NX6010. He agreed, and made a comment that in the Kioti line, it is the only model where the frame does change as the HP goes up. If the wallet allows, go with the more HP as you never know when you might need it.

Look again. The specs on the Kioti website are literally identical except for 1) engine horsepower (due to software) and 2) rear tire size and 3) ground clearance (see #2) and yes, it is rated Cat 2 but that is a matter of pin size. Engine displacement is 2.2 liters and identical across the NX lineup. Hydraulic pump is 17.9 gal/min and identical across the range. 3PT lift is 3177lbs and identical. Loader capacity and speed is identical. All NX tractors are 139.6 inches long with a 75.6 inch wheelbase. Width is 65.6" on the 4510 and 65.7 on the 6010 due to tire size. The ground clearance on the NX6010 is two inches taller than the others because it uses 17.5-24 rear tires rather than 14.9-24. The NX6010 weighs 4183lbs while the NX4510 weighs 3989lbs which must be the difference in tire weight.

Kioti just scams people into buying the "biggest and baddest" NX6010 for a huge upcharge when in reality it does only a limited number of tasks that even the NX4510 cannot do just as well. Most folks use six foot implements so the potential benefit of 60hp in running an 8 or 10 foot mower is lost. Maybe the 60hp will do a faster job blowing heavy snow. Maybe pull a three rather than two gang plow if that's your thing. The NX4510 will run literally every other six foot implement just as well.

I forget the current price differential but it used to be about $6000. Pretty pricey for one size larger rear tires and a different engine software version.

 

[DieselBound]

Does the NX4510 or NX5010 have a turbo? If not, then the increased costs include actual hardware.

I'm not sure that this "trick" is only played by Kioti. I'm familiar with older VW TDIs and with those there were different markets in which some engines only had minor hardware changes (larger injector nozzles) along with software mods, which would produce a significant difference in power output.

Numbers may not look to be that big of a difference, but percentage wise they ARE.

As a general rule, more power means less time. My B7800 can do a LOT of work, but, clearly, much slower than the machines we're talking about here: and, yes, there's some things that it cannot do.

One really has to look at most things as "black boxes" and evaluate based on inputs and outputs. Does it matter if "black box" uses a completely different engine to achieve more Hp over another that does so using "software mods?"

I've modded my cars via simple injetor nozzle and software upgrades. Would I look to do so if I could do this on a tractor? Don't know. I need to work more and tinker less!

 

[IslandTractor]

Does the NX4510 or NX5010 have a turbo? If not, then the increased costs include actual hardware. I'm not sure that this "trick" is only played by Kioti. I'm familiar with older VW TDIs and with those there were different markets in which some engines only had minor hardware changes (larger injector nozzles) along with software mods, which would produce a significant difference in power output. Numbers may not look to be that big of a difference, but percentage wise they ARE. As a general rule, more power means less time. My B7800 can do a LOT of work, but, clearly, much slower than the machines we're talking about here: and, yes, there's some things that it cannot do. One really has to look at most things as "black boxes" and evaluate based on inputs and outputs. Does it matter if "black box" uses a completely different engine to achieve more Hp over another that does so using "software mods?" I've modded my cars via simple injetor nozzle and software upgrades. Would I look to do so if I could do this on a tractor? Don't know. I need to work more and tinker less!

I believe all the NX line is turbocharged but haven't seen anything specific about that in the Kioti literature.

Yes, many manufacturers pull the same trick. Outboard motors of a given displacement can vary dramatically in output often just by using bigger jets on the carb or software changes on newer engines. Marine diesels are similar though in that case they change the duty rating.

My point is that people need to stop simply buying horsepower. Look at the frame size, 3PT, loader capacity, weight and hydraulic output. Those factors are every bit as important as plain HP in determining what a tractor will and will not be good for.

Also, consider whether $6000 spent on 15hp is a better deal than that same money put into a grapple and flail and other implements that might make work go much faster than the occasional benefit of the extra hp in an otherwise identical tractor.

 

[rcooley4]

So I recently did some cost vs need/want comparison and I decided to save several thousand dollars and buy a 1500 series truck. Now look at the predicament i'm in, I should have save a little longer and just bought the bigger truck so I can tow this new tractor legally. At the time I was thinking that I would buy a JD3046R which is much lighter and smaller but then kapper turned me on to this machine for less money.

For some people less horse power makes a lot of sense but not for me. In my mind and from my experience PTO work takes HP and I'd rather have to much than not enough.

At least my truck I'll replace it in 8 to 10 years but this purchase I'll be stuck with for 20 years. (my wife says forever) I'm not going to make that mistake again, I'll get the most horse power that they can cram into a chassis. Realistically if I put 100 hours a year on this that will he a lot, this thing should last me until I'm 60. If I have to sacrifice an implant or two right now I will, I'm still young enough that I can pick it up in the future. Plus it will be much easier to talk my wife into buying an implement down the road rather than another tractor.

 

[IslandTractor]

So I recently did some cost vs need/want comparison and I decided to save several thousand dollars and buy a 1500 series truck. Now look at the predicament i'm in, I should have save a little longer and just bought the bigger truck so I can tow this new tractor legally. At the time I was thinking that I would buy a JD3046R which is much lighter and smaller but then kapper turned me on to this machine for less money. For some people less horse power makes a lot of sense but not for me. In my mind and from my experience PTO work takes HP and I'd rather have to much than not enough. At least my truck I'll replace it in 8 to 10 years but this purchase I'll be stuck with for 20 years. (my wife says forever) I'm not going to make that mistake again, I'll get the most horse power that they can cram into a chassis. Realistically if I put 100 hours a year on this that will he a lot, this thing should last me until I'm 60. If I have to sacrifice an implant or two right now I will, I'm still young enough that I can pick it up in the future. Plus it will be much easier to talk my wife into buying an implement down the road rather than another tractor.

It's obviously your decision but consider that for the same price as the 60hp version you can get the 45 or 50 plus a couple of prime implements and have those implements for use today rather than hoping you can justify another purchase next year. People buying the DK and NX size tractors tend not to upgrade. I cannot think of any example except someone moving from the smaller frame DK35 up to the DK40. Never heard of anyone here upgrading a DK40 or NX45.

 

[HK45]

I paid $44,975 out door For NX6010 CAB HYDRO with loader, backhoe rim guard, radio, grill guard and third function installed

 

[Threepoint]

Look again. The specs on the Kioti website are literally identical except for 1) engine horsepower (due to software) and 2) rear tire size and 3) ground clearance (see #2) and yes, it is rated Cat 2 but that is a matter of pin size. Engine displacement is 2.2 liters and identical across the NX lineup. Hydraulic pump is 17.9 gal/min and identical across the range. 3PT lift is 3177lbs and identical. Loader capacity and speed is identical. All NX tractors are 139.6 inches long with a 75.6 inch wheelbase. Width is 65.6" on the 4510 and 65.7 on the 6010 due to tire size. The ground clearance on the NX6010 is two inches taller than the others because it uses 17.5-24 rear tires rather than 14.9-24. The NX6010 weighs 4183lbs while the NX4510 weighs 3989lbs which must be the difference in tire weight.
[snip]

I forget the current price differential but it used to be about $6000. Pretty pricey for one size larger rear tires and a different engine software version.

I have to agree with Island on most all of this part of his analysis. I studied the differences very carefully 2-1/2 yrs ago when I decided on the NX4510HST Cab.

I'll differ on two points, tho. The 3pt linkage setup on the NX6010 is more than just the pin size. I know this from comparing dimensions and configuration with EricTheOracle awhile back when we were both getting ready to add top 'n tilt to our tractors. Can't recall specifics, but I remember that the NX6010 setup was more robust for the Cat 2 capability, so our requirements were different. Not a huge difference, but it's there.

My second point is, I'm more cautious in discounting off the top the importance of the additional 15 hp to the OP. Or anyone else, for that matter. Yes, they are identical engines. Kioti's website (see Specifications) lists the same engine model number for both: 3F183T, so they aren't even being coy about it! The difference in hp rating is a matter of fuel delivery, determined by the programming. But even though my NX4510 does everything that I need it to, there are occasions when I would like to have 15 more hp. E.g., pulling a heavy box blade loaded with wet crusher run up a grade and having to go to low range. Or even traveling empty at max speed in high range and having the tractor slow down more than I'd like on a modest grade. I don't really need the extra power, and maybe the OP doesn't either. But from his comments, I think he's going to be happier paying the piper now and not even run the risk of "wudda, cudda, shudda" a few weeks from now.

 

[IslandTractor]

I guess my point regarding horsepower is that you need to look at the whole picture. Would 60hp plus a rear snowblower be more effective than 45hp with a more costly front mount blower? Would 60hp with a standard bucket be as useful as a 45hp with standard, 4n1 and grapple all for the same price? If you are plowing regularly or building a big pond with lots of boxblade work perhaps the extra hp would be useful on a regular basis. I do about 90% of my tractor work on my DK40se at well less than PTO engine speed so I don't even use 40 hp 90% of the time.

 

[paulfun9]

Instant satisfaction isn't always in the cards. Personally I would prefer the machine that can make me happy in the long run and wait on an attachment or two rather than have the attachment now and never be completely happy with the machine.

 

[IslandTractor]

Instant satisfaction isn't always in the cards. Personally I would prefer the machine that can make me happy in the long run and wait on an attachment or two rather than have the attachment now and never be completely happy with the machine.

How many NX4510 owners are dissatisfied?. Some people just always "need" to have more horsepower often with only vague reasons to support their decisions. 60 horsepower CUTs have only been on the market for a few years. Everybody before then bought and were almost all happy with machines that put out less than 50hp. It is an example of marketing BS that is very successful at up selling. I suspect that many of the folks who "need" 60 hp are buying their first CUT. That should tell us something.