Polebarn lean-to posts

   / Polebarn lean-to posts #1  

fishpick

Platinum Member
Joined
May 20, 2006
Messages
832
Location
The part of NY with high taxes
Tractor
L4760 & BX24
In the next month or so I think I'll be starting on my lean-to on my barn - since the estimates I have gotten from contractors are ridiculous compared to the amount of work to do.
Anyhow - I'm just gonna do it myself after I draw up some plans and get them off to the town for a permit.
So - my question starts with the main posts... Anyone have opinions about using the backhoe to dig the holes for the timbers? I know most contractors would use a big auger - but since I have a BH and no PHD - I don't see any real issue... comments?
 
   / Polebarn lean-to posts #2  
You have to consider what those posts do. The obvious answer is that they hold up the roof. So digging a hole with a backhoe and putting the post in that hole seems feasable. The other function of the post is to hold the roof down during a wind storm. This is where I think you might run into problems. The upward force on the roof during a windy day is tremendous!!!!

Having the post in a hole that is solid all the way around lends tremendous strength to the pole. Packing soil or pouring concrete locks that post in place. If you dig that hole with a backhoe, you will make it very dificult to lock that post into place, unless you use concrete to fill in the entire hole.

I think it would be cheaper to hire out the holes to be drilled with an auger or rent one versus paying for all that cement.

Eddie
 
   / Polebarn lean-to posts #3  
You bring up a valid point, Eddie. Wouldn't a Wacker compactor achieve the same results for a much lower rental fee? I am facing the same dilemma.
 
   / Polebarn lean-to posts #4  
I had the same situation, I had dug holes for a lean-to with a backhoe and ended up with very elongated holes even tho I was only going 40" deep. It took more quickcrete and the posts were never as solid as if I used a post hole digger. It probably would have worked out and been solid once it was constructed, but unfortunately we decided to sell the farm so I took everthing apart for a new barn on another place. I will be using a post hole digger for the posts from now on.
 
   / Polebarn lean-to posts #5  
I dug the holes then set 4' construction tubes into the hole, backfilled around the tubes then poured them full of concrete. When the concrete was almost set up. I inserted steel bars about 30" long with a 90 degree angle bent into the bottom and a few holes drilled in the top.

When all was dry, I compacted the soil as best as I could and used lag screws to attach the posts to the steel bars. It withstands both the weight of substancial snow wright and the uplift of winds up to well over 60mph.
 
   / Polebarn lean-to posts #6  
Have a look at the Footing Tube made in New Brunswick, Canada. It is a one piece heavy polyethylene footing and tapered pier form that uses the weight of the backfill to hold down and stabilize the pier. It has the added advantage of being slippery poly which, in conjunction with it's taper, will minimize or eliminate frost bonding/lift. They can now be had in lengths up to 8' (two piece) for use in new construction excavations that are too deep for a 4' pier/footer. (When there is a need for a pier close to the new foundation, for example, and the excavation is already 8')
 
   / Polebarn lean-to posts #7  
Jeff,

I'm not an engineer, just a home builder/remodeler, so I can't support this very well. Maybe others can help me out? Here is how I understand compaction.

Undisterbed soil is considerd 100% compact. It's also called virgin soil. There are exceptions to this, but overall, if it has never been dug in before, it's probably undesturbed and 100% compact.

When moving dirt and building up pads, the goal is to get that new soil as close as possible to 100% compaction. When I worked in California, the inspectore would send a signal into the ground, similar to how radar works. He's measure that signal to determine the amount of compaction in the soil. Our goal was something like 97% in order to pass the inspection.

Even with heavy equipmen, sheeps foot rollers ,building it up in lifts, and adding water, we didn't always pass the inspection. It's not easy to get soil compacted enough to pass a California inspection!!!

Using a Wacker brand, or jack-hammer styler compactor dos work, but it's slow going and takes allot of room. There are hydraulic tampers that pack the earth with a much smaller footprint, but again, it's even harder to get compaction with them. When I did pipe jobs, we ran the Wackers in the trench on top of a layer of sand. The sand was jetted for compaction, but teh dirt fill had to be hand packed. This was extremly dificult to do and time consuming. We literally spend days filling and compacting pipelines that only took one day to dig and install!!!!!

It would be extremly hard to get good compaction on a post that is dug with a backhoe and filled with dirt. It's not something that you will notice while building, and maybe if the weather never gets bad, you might never notice.

Here's what might happen. Rain water will penetrate dug earth much, much faster then virgin soil. It will literall fill up that hole just like a cup of water. The bigger the hole, the worse this is! Now the soil that might have 70-85% compaction is allot less. This soil will take a very long time to dry out. Now lets say there is a wind storm, thunder storm, or some sort of extreme weather with strong winds that come in. With these very common conditions, you can have total failure in your posts.

Locally, it's fairly common with carports. There was one that I know of that just came out of the ground last week. I don't know the exact details or soil conditions, but the wind pulled up the posts on two corners. Then the building twisted and snaped off the posts on the other side. The roof colapsed with those two poles half way out.

Eddie
 
   / Polebarn lean-to posts #8  
My thoughts are along the line of Eddie's. I've built or help build a couple pole barns. Always used a post hole digger (2 man) I rented. Used 6x6 post and used a 12" auger that gave a little room to move the pole to get in correct position. After digging the hole I added about a foot of crushed rock for a footing. After pole in place, backfilled the hole with 3/4 minus crushed rock.

Here, no permit needed for out-buildings. Did I do it all by the book, I'm not sure but I know the first barn, 30x60, 12' eves, is still standing and we've had a couple wind storms over the past 30 yrs's it has been standing. The 2nd barn is at my son's and is only 3-4 yrs old and no problems.

I'd never give thought to using a backhoe for digging the post holes.
 
   / Polebarn lean-to posts #9  
rent a skidsteer with an auger.
 
 
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